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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    What happened to just having fun and enjoying the game and community?
    The game has never at any point in its sixteen years of existence been about this. Why are you waxing nostalgic about something that has literally never happened?

  2. #42
    It's a cool idea for events like Blizzcon races and Mythic+ invitationals. ANd maybe someday they'll give us the tools to organize our own community events using those guidelines. But, for the live game it would kill one of the main cores of any RPG.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    That's quite frankly a bit sad. I obviously get why people enjoy WoW, but I'm having a real hard time understanding people who only enjoy WoW when they can get a piece of gear they then can use to get a new piece of gear until they can't enjoy it anymore because there is no more gear to get.

    What happened to just having fun and enjoying the game and community?
    Just to make this clear, thats how I always played the game since classic (not vanilla) was released.

    I immensely enjoy playing the game with other people and guildies and I have no problem if it is not ME getting loot. I will run 20x M+ with my friends is one of them needs something from there. I will enjoy the time I spend there. But I need a goal that has some worth, and ALMOST everything that is not character progression has no worth to ME personally.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by SirReal View Post
    Bad idea, yes. Bad translator, yes. He actually said the raids would still drop gear, but their power would only be fully realized outside of raids. Something like an ilvl/powerlevel cap inside mythic raids.

    Again, yes it's a bad idea. Gear and power have always been core components of this game.
    People don't come up with such idiotic ideas without an agenda.

    And when you see OP's other comments it's pretty clear what their agenda was.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    The game has never at any point in its sixteen years of existence been about this. Why are you waxing nostalgic about something that has literally never happened?
    Classic says hello. My main (warrior) got 1 upgrade during the last 3 months and I'm about to craft Sulfuras. I intend to use it, despite it being a downgrade, which my guild also allows me to do because it's fun. So yeah, it literally happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    People don't come up with such idiotic ideas without an agenda.

    And when you see OP's other comments it's pretty clear what their agenda was.
    I have been pretty clear about why I would want this. Your ability to read does not impress anyone.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    My thought was the following:
    The content would be more difficult than heroic, and never really trivialized by gear, but you would still get higher ilvl gear drops than heroic, mounts and cosmetic. Basically the same reasons as doing it now.

    Why does anyone keep raiding mythic after they've cleared it once?

    I think there would be several positive side effect:
    Boosting would decrease - you'd still be able to boost people in heroic with your imba gear, but most people would easily get gear capped for mythic, unless they are chasing bis stats. Boosting mythic would also have a higher ceiling as that content wouldn't be as easily outgeared.

    Gear would still matter, but not be a complete roadblock for anyone that would want to join the mythic scene. Risk of guild breakers increase when hard bosses can't be overpowered, though. On the plus side, you would be able to get gear with better secondaries doing other content.

    World first races wouldn't be about who can borrow the most gold and buy crafting mats and BoEs.

    It would also kill those ridiculous ilvl requirements to join raids, and Xforging wouldn't matter.




    But why do you raid mythic today? Because it's fun or solely to get better gear to raid more mythic?

    This was the core of my question of my thread, would people still raid at the hardest difficulty when all gear required to clear it could be obtained outside and the only real rewards would be cosmetics and more power outside?

    Or is gear to overcome same tier gear-gating really the only reason to raid mythic?
    If you couldn't get stronger via gear killing bosses in mythic there would be no reason to do it at the pace people do now. This would push groups to keep farming heroic to get easier chances at bis items to hope to help bump their power for mythic. Many guilds only kill mythic bosses because they out power it. Even if the entire group doesn't need that bump in strength people in a group still would. This would make mythic even less appealing to play at the start and harder to keep people in as it got going. Something like this would slowly erode mythic raiding on most servers and eventually gut it game wide.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    What would the mythic raiding scene look like if gear was capped somewhere around the base level of heroic raid drops? (Think challenge mode of MoP / WoD)

    You could farm heroic/mythic to max your gear slots, but there would be a hard cap to how stronk you could get.

    Assuming same strength of mythic raid drops as today, but that they would only make you stronger outside of mythic raids, and would in no way help towards completing the mythic raid, save for optimal secondary stats and trinnet effects.

    Would you still raid mythic?
    Would you have kept farming it for the mounts, cosmetics and imba gear for mythic+ pushing?

    Difficulty would obviously have to be balanced around this gear cap, but still harder than heroic and with added mechanics.
    What would be the point in trying mythic raid then if your gear is going to be capped a bit higher then heroic but lower then mythic?

    I know you're probably just trying to make things harder for the top 1% but this is just just poorly thoughtout.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    Classic says hello. My main (warrior) got 1 upgrade during the last 3 months and I'm about to craft Sulfuras. I intend to use it, despite it being a downgrade, which my guild also allows me to do because it's fun. So yeah, it literally happens.
    You're implying your singular anecdotal experience should be held by every player who ever logs into the game. I reiterate: At no point have all players ever agreed that the game should "only" be about one thing. This imaginary sense of "community" you speak of exists only in your head and this "idea" arrogantly tries to force what you think would be better for the game on everybody else because, well, you're the center of the known universe I guess.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    Classic says hello. My main (warrior) got 1 upgrade during the last 3 months and I'm about to craft Sulfuras. I intend to use it, despite it being a downgrade, which my guild also allows me to do because it's fun. So yeah, it literally happens.

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    I have been pretty clear about why I would want this. Your ability to read does not impress anyone.
    Classic content is in no way challenging once you set your feet inside the content. Out side of some immunities gear is far less of a factor there. There is a vast window of opportunities to goof around in classic raids, you don't have the same luxury in mythic, in some cases heroic. Combat is so slow in classic people have full conversations in /w while fighting bosses, you certainly can't do that in any current raiding.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    Classic says hello. My main (warrior) got 1 upgrade during the last 3 months and I'm about to craft Sulfuras. I intend to use it, despite it being a downgrade, which my guild also allows me to do because it's fun. So yeah, it literally happens.

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    I have been pretty clear about why I would want this. Your ability to read does not impress anyone.
    So your proof that you are correct is anecdotal evidence about intentionally making your character worse... got it.

    I was kind of on the fence about this topic. mythic ilvl being capped in theory sounds like it could be fun but there are way to many problems as stated in other replies.

    Oh op just for the future. Anyone with an iq over 12 thinks your a troll/idiot for comparing classic wow to mythic raids.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    Your ability to read does not impress anyone.
    Your idea has almost unanimous opposition. I mean, that's really hard to do. Most bad ideas have at least some support because some people are fond of being contrarian. And yet, despite the chorus of logic and reason explaining why your idea is bad, you seem incapable of either understanding or admitting the points brought up. That's cool, the world needs different types and some people are just on another wavelength. But for you to speak on behalf of everyone to dismiss someone else's reading comprehension is just too much. It would be funny if I was not convinced you are serious.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    You're implying your singular anecdotal experience should be held by every player who ever logs into the game. I reiterate: At no point have all players ever agreed that the game should "only" be about one thing. This imaginary sense of "community" you speak of exists only in your head and this "idea" arrogantly tries to force what you think would be better for the game on everybody else because, well, you're the center of the known universe I guess.
    No, I do not, and I don't claim to. You said: "literally never happened" and I told you my guild (160+ active-ish raiders) are living proof it does happen. Don't be afraid of facts, my friend, you were wrong on this one.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    No, I do not, and I don't claim to. You said: "literally never happened" and I told you my guild (160+ active-ish raiders) are living proof it does happen. Don't be afraid of facts, my friend, you were wrong on this one.
    Once again, your Classic guild is not proof of anything. You are arrogantly assuming every single player in your raid plays the game for the same reasons you do. They don't. Your entire premise for this "idea" is predicated on this absurd notion that you speak for some undefined demographic of players. You don't. And your idea still sucks, like I said in my first post of this thread.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Caerrona View Post
    So your proof that you are correct is anecdotal evidence about intentionally making your character worse... got it.

    I was kind of on the fence about this topic. mythic ilvl being capped in theory sounds like it could be fun but there are way to many problems as stated in other replies.

    Oh op just for the future. Anyone with an iq over 12 thinks your a troll/idiot for comparing classic wow to mythic raids.
    Of course there's problems with new ideas, what new feature doesn't have problems? Name one addition to the game that was unanimously well-received.
    How would the problems be solved? Can they be?

    I will admit I have an IQ below 12 if you can quote the exact sentence where I compared mythic raiding to Classic raiding. My example was purely to prove the point that community, fun and non-gear-centric values exist.
    Another example would be the massive efforts being put into helping a single player get a black scarab mount these days, with nothing to be gained in way of character advancement for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Once again, your Classic guild is not proof of anything. You are arrogantly assuming every single player in your raid plays the game for the same reasons you do. They don't. Your entire premise for this "idea" is predicated on this absurd notion that you speak for some undefined demographic of players. You don't. And your idea still sucks, like I said in my first post of this thread.
    It is proof community and fun exist. I have never said that I speak for anyone but myself, so you can probably stop saying otherwise.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    It is proof community and fun exist. I have never said that I speak for anyone but myself, so you can probably stop saying otherwise.
    "Fun" as universally defined by who...exactly?

    It's you, and you alone

  16. #56
    A mode for this i think would be fine,im sure plenty of guilds out there that clear the raid fast would like a challenge until the next tier,so yeah,a system where you can cap your lvl for an extra challenge and maybe some cosmetic rewards would be nice

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Your idea has almost unanimous opposition. I mean, that's really hard to do. Most bad ideas have at least some support because some people are fond of being contrarian. And yet, despite the chorus of logic and reason explaining why your idea is bad, you seem incapable of either understanding or admitting the points brought up. That's cool, the world needs different types and some people are just on another wavelength. But for you to speak on behalf of everyone to dismiss someone else's reading comprehension is just too much. It would be funny if I was not convinced you are serious.
    No, I didn't. He managed to read what I actually wrote and then implied there was some poorly hidden agenda that would be clear to anyone who read what I wrote. I literally meant his ability to read, and I even assumed he got it right.

    Why do you take everything in the worst possible meaning all the time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    "Fun" as universally defined by who...exactly?

    It's you, and you alone
    I haven't universally defined fun. I have said I think it's sad if someone only has fun as long as they can get a gear upgrade (as opposed to having fun playing the game itself, or enjoying it with their community), but that's their fun nontheless.

    Fun is subjective, and for many it includes doing things guides aren't telling you is the right thing to do. For me, ONLY ME, NOT EVERYONE, in this case, that would be running around with a legendary I've spent months gathering mats to make despite it being a downgrade, and my guild allowing, even encouraging, me to do so.

    What are you trying to achieve with these meaningless jabs at me?
    Last edited by Tronski; 2020-08-11 at 03:36 AM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    I haven't universally defined fun. I have said I think it's sad if someone only has fun as long as they can get a gear upgrade (as opposed to having fun playing the game itself, or enjoying it with their community), but that's their fun nontheless.
    Why is your subjective definition of fun more important than anybody else's? You can think whatever the fuck you want but when you go beyond just thinking about what other people should or should not find fun about a fucking video game to making offensively shitty suggestions which only appeal to your narrow concept of whatever convoluted concept of community you've conjured in your imagination you really shouldn't be surprised when the feedback you receive is almost universally negative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    Fun is subjective, and for many it includes doing things guides aren't telling you is the right thing to do. For me, ONLY ME, NOT EVERYONE, in this case, that would be running around with a legendary I've spent months gathering mats to make despite it being a downgrade, and my guild allowing, even encouraging, me to do so.

    What are you trying to achieve with these meaningless jabs at me?
    You are crusading against common sense. You seem obsessed with debating the merits of this terrible idea as if anybody who disagrees with you is simply incapable of understanding your perspective. And then when people tell you that the various multitude of ways your idea is wrong your response is, "it's my $15/mo I should be able to do what I want."

    Cute.

  19. #59
    IF this was the case then id do with mythic raids the same as i did with the mop and wod challengemodes, id do it once.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Why is your subjective definition of fun more important than anybody else's? You can think whatever the fuck you want but when you go beyond just thinking about what other people should or should not find fun about a fucking video game to making offensively shitty suggestions which only appeal to your narrow concept of whatever convoluted concept of community you've conjured in your imagination you really shouldn't be surprised when the feedback you receive is almost universally negative.



    You are crusading against common sense. You seem obsessed with debating the merits of this terrible idea as if anybody who disagrees with you is simply incapable of understanding your perspective. And then when people tell you that the various multitude of ways your idea is wrong your response is, "it's my $15/mo I should be able to do what I want."

    Cute.
    I'm very confused by your response. You quote me saying "Fun is subjective" and then go apeshit bananas over how I'm trying to force my non-defined "definition" on everyone else.

    "Fun is subjective" literally means that everyone defines it differently.

    Also, to those that keep the discussion at topic, I am literally asking more questions than I am giving statements, that's not a crusade, that's curiosity. Pull your head out of your balloonknot.

    If you have nothing else to contribute than putting words in my mouth, you might want to find another thread to troll. You're welcome to actually talk about the topic, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    IF this was the case then id do with mythic raids the same as i did with the mop and wod challengemodes, id do it once.
    Even if you still got mythic level gear you could benefit from in Torghast, PvP, M+ and heroic raids? (As a contrast to challenge mode which only gave transmog)

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