Possible big issue with Renown system "youtubers" arent realizing

[8bithamster]

So happy we have someone without beta access, who hasn't even tested or played the content who knows it better than the people who have. Always good to see.

[ClassicPeon]

What? Have you ever did anything competitive in wow or is lfr the highest youve ever been? You cant get in M+ groups past a certain starting key point if youre not caught up in your chores, you cant win pvp matches past a starting point if youre behind in your chores.
That is basic wow, you have to do your chores to do any endgame content, its not a question of "your alts being as strong as your main", its a question of you being allowed to do content you should be able to.

right now you cant "get a good starting point" and then only care about raiding, or pvping or doing M+, you need to continuously do weekly chores, which is "fine" in your main, but not on your alts, no expansion besides legion and bfa you were forced to do all chores on all your alts in order to be allowed to do content. tbc, wotlk, cata, mop... if you wanted to do arena and your character had the gear, that was it all you had to do was queue... now? you need to do your chores first.

Its funny how people misuse the word competitive today. Like they actually dont understand what it means.

Anyway - no i dont play the MDI or participate in the world first mythic race. And neither do i go to any arena tournaments(lets be frank, most people dont really care about these anyway).

I've done all 15's and i've cleared nyalotha hc. havent played much in bfa because i generally didnt like it.

That being said - i've been invited to mythic raids on my non optimized 472 dh and blood dk.

I think its laughable that you expect to be able to keep 13 fully optimized alts without having to do any chore content. I think thats a complete non issue and not something Blizzard should change just for your sake. Even being the world first mythic raider you are.

[Mic_128]

this is somewhat worrying.

"Earning unique Covenant-themed cosmetic items such as mounts, pets, a title, back attachment transmog, and transmog armor."

guess im gonna need 4 chars. or reroll alot on my main.

It's even worse if you're a mog collector, as you'll need 16 characters - as each covenant has unique transmog for each armour class restricted to them.

[Nuba]

Its funny how people misuse the word competitive today. Like they actually dont understand what it means.

Anyway - no i dont play the MDI or participate in the world first mythic race. And neither do i go to any arena tournaments(lets be frank, most people dont really care about these anyway).

I've done all 15's and i've cleared nyalotha hc. havent played much in bfa because i generally didnt like it.

That being said - i've been invited to mythic raids on my non optimized 472 dh and blood dk.

I think its laughable that you expect to be able to keep 13 fully optimized alts without having to do any chore content. I think thats a complete non issue and not something Blizzard should change just for your sake. Even being the world first mythic raider you are.

yeah, you have done those things... on your main.
and thats it, being invited to raid with a guild doesnt say much, does it? especially this late in the expansion, I dont really care that you do stuff or not, but the fact is that by competitive I mean actively playing when a content is content.
3 months ago, when 8.3 was content and not dead, if you wanted to play arena, or raid, or do M+, you had to do the chores you were forced to do, they werent content, as in they werent something you progress through, they were just boring chores that if you didnt do, you couldnt do content.
In my posts:
content = things you progress through, those are: Arena, M+ key levels and Raid bosses on whatever difficult it is.
Playing competitive = doing content.
chores = toothless content that adds nothing to you as a player, doesnt challenge you in any way and only exists so you waste your time doing something you dont enjoy before you can waste your time in something you enjoy.

you cant possibly believe that you could queue arena and hope to grind without doing the chores, the same can be applied to raiding. and if you raid in any progression guild, play arenas with a group of friends or do M+ with a group of friends, you know youre expected to have at least a few alts.

You dont play 8.3 anymore for the same reason I dont play 8.3 anymore, and for the same reason the millions of other players dont play it anymore as well, and that could happen in shadowlands too.

What if Renown's power-tied unlocks were account wide but the story-tied unlocks and cosmetic-tied unlocks were character specific? Wouldnt that make the entirety of Shadowlands sound a billion times better?

[Exeris]

So happy we have someone without beta access, who hasn't even tested or played the content who knows it better than the people who have. Always good to see.

Have you tried it?

How is it to play if you have a lot of alts or for those that don't even have a main character?

From the news I've seen so far it looks to be an improvement over BFA.

I got a beta invite but haven't tried it because I'm afraid it will feel just as alt unfriendly as BFA and I'll end up disappointed.

[Accendor]

The problem is completely different. The catchup means that doing it on the curve is just a waste of time, meaning that this system is - once again - an incentive to NOT play the game if you want to maximize efficiency.

[dcc626]

Soulbinds are new artifacts, Renown new AP (but with weekly cap) simple as that.

I think it should be account wide up to cap from previous week (to avoid people doing just big rewards on many alts), there is zero fun in farming AP on alt, even in early Legion when we had many traits to unlock.

soulbinds are basically relics. and reknown isnt really ap. not when the cap is 2 weekly quests. its about as easy as it gets.

they arent going to make it accountwide. they never make any player power accountwide.

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The problem is completely different. The catchup means that doing it on the curve is just a waste of time, meaning that this system is - once again - an incentive to NOT play the game if you want to maximize efficiency.

sure. if you dont care about the power, you can wait. you will also have to do more random stuff. just because you can get more reknown by doing everyday activities doesnt mean its going to be quick if you are far behind.

if you cant do 2 weekly quests (1 of which overlaps with weekly farming to make legendaries) then be happy and be behind. its probably never getting easier than this.

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It's even worse if you're a mog collector, as you'll need 16 characters - as each covenant has unique transmog for each armour class restricted to them.

and also restricted to use by them. so i dont really see the point.

[Aphrel]

you can use these things only as long as your character is part of the covernant. When you switch, its not useable anymore.

That sounds even worse

[Nuba]

soulbinds are basically relics. and reknown isnt really ap. not when the cap is 2 weekly quests. its about as easy as it gets.

they arent going to make it accountwide. they never make any player power accountwide.

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sure. if you dont care about the power, you can wait. you will also have to do more random stuff. just because you can get more reknown by doing everyday activities doesnt mean its going to be quick if you are far behind.

if you cant do 2 weekly quests (1 of which overlaps with weekly farming to make legendaries) then be happy and be behind. its probably never getting easier than this.

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and also restricted to use by them. so i dont really see the point.

soulbinds arent relics, they are literal artifacts you have to grind weekly "AP" in order to keep them up, have relics to attach to them and have to constantly refarm those relics to get them in higher ilvl as the expansion progresses, thats exactly artifacts.
Sure, the system was fleshed out in comparison to Legion's, but its still the exact same system, just with a different stick over it.
Artifact vs Soulbinds:
Grind your weekly AP to unlock power = Grind your weekly renown to unlock power
Do content to grind relics to put on the artifact = do content to unlock conduits to put on the soulbind
Regrind content on higher difficulty to get same relic on higher ilvl to put on artifact = Regrind content on higher difficulty to get same conduit on higher ilvl to put on soulbind

sounds the same to me. I dont mind getting power through content though, its ok, but saying theyre not the same is a lie.

[Wuusah]

The problem is completely different. The catchup means that doing it on the curve is just a waste of time, meaning that this system is - once again - an incentive to NOT play the game if you want to maximize efficiency.

You could always go back and kill old raid bosses solo with no effort. Does that mean the game has always rewarded you for not playing the game?

Time is a crucial factor. People care about WHEN they get something.

[Aphrel]

It's even worse if you're a mog collector, as you'll need 16 characters - as each covenant has unique transmog for each armour class restricted to them.

poor souls :<

[dcc626]

Working as intended IMO.

To elaborate, gear is no longer the primary progression system. We're showered in purples, and if upgrades were as scarce as they used to be we wouldn't need alternative progression. Remember the days pre-WoD when you logged in and found raid epics in your capital/garrison on a weekly basis? Neither do I!

gear is going to be scarce again. less loot drops in m+ and raids, 1 weekly box, no loot (minus lego mats) from torghast, low quality wq rewards until you level your reknown high enough. thats it. pvp if you do it (with no gear drops only currency for vendors) and crafted stuff (that will in all liklihood be lower ilvl)

thats it. we also dont have a neck and cloak we keep forever or azerite slots from a vendor. so more slots we have to gear for.

[Nnyco]

Dont play so many alts then.

[slime]

That's exactly how it is now. You can buy cloak upgrades, till you are caught up, but then its a weekly visions run with each alt to keep up. And you are right after a few months I was done with that repetitive shit.

[Hitei]

I never had to do chores on my alts, I did grinds on my main sure, and I enjoyed doing them once and only once.

What is attunement? What is gearing? What are professions? What are reputations for enchants? What are legendary quest lines? This has always been the case. If you want competitive alts, you have to do the same things you did on your main. It's frequently easier than ever before (instant unlocking WQs, catchups, etc. What game were you even playing before Legion?

[Nuba]

What is attunement? What is gearing? What are professions? What are reputations for enchants? What are legendary quest lines? This has always been the case. If you want competitive alts, you have to do the same things you did on your main. It's frequently easier than ever before (instant unlocking WQs, catchups, etc. What game were you even playing before Legion?

individual enchants were like 1% of a players power, not 70% like current chores' are, you were not forced to do those in order to do content, the simple fact youre throwing in this means you know youre full of shit at this point.
and youre comparing gearing and PROGRESSING with doing weekly chores? really?

[Popastique]

Not an issue. If you want your every single alt to be in top condition - you put that time in. Too time consuming? Decrease the number of your alts.

P.S. It is pretty rare to find mythic raiders who prepare 10+ alts, so the problem is within yourself.

[Nuba]

Not an issue. If you want your every single alt to be in top condition - you put that time in. Too time consuming? Decrease the number of your alts.

P.S. It is pretty rare to find mythic raiders who prepare 10+ alts, so the problem is within yourself.

just a question: are you special? did you read the discussion before posting?
Nobody is saying every alt should be the same power level as the main.

This entire discussion is about power should be tied to progression and not to how many weekly chores you can do.
Shadowlands will be better if your renown power-specific unlocks are account-wide, and you only have to grind those on your alts if you want to see the covenant's story.

Power should be tied to progression, to skill, to optimization, to gearing choices, not to dumb repetitive weekly quests. And like I said, I dont mind doing those things on my main, but theyre just painful to be repeated on my alts.

[Hitei]

individual enchants were like 1% of a players power, not 70% like current chores' are, you were not forced to do those in order to do content, the simple fact youre throwing in this means you know youre full of shit at this point.

If you're not bothering to enchant your alts then you aren't even talking about being competitive, or being in a competitive situations so why are you even concerned with them being maximized? You're not getting 70% damage buff from skipping a week or not skipping a week. You're getting 70% damage difference between doing absolutely nothing, and keeping something completely up to date.

and youre comparing gearing and PROGRESSING with doing weekly chores? really?

?????

yeah, you have done those things... on your main.

It's not progressing. You've already done it on your main and all the shit you are complaining about IS gearing. So now I'm confused. Are you okay with having to gear and progress an alt through content you've done on your main, or are you not okay with having to gear and progress an alt through content you've done on your main? Chores are chores. A boss on farm and trash you've done dozens of times isn't any less of a chore than the other weekly shit involved in keeping an alt well geared.

[Accendor]

You could always go back and kill old raid bosses solo with no effort. Does that mean the game has always rewarded you for not playing the game?

Time is a crucial factor. People care about WHEN they get something.

Really? Don't get me wrong, I was always raiding and clearing in the highest difficulty, even in different guilds and nobody ever really cared about the WHEN.

All I am saying is that catchups are terrible.