Possible big issue with Renown system "youtubers" arent realizing

[Nuba]

If you're not bothering to enchant your alts then you aren't even talking about being competitive, or being in a competitive situations so why are you even concerned with them being maximized? You're not getting 70% damage buff from skipping a week or not skipping a week. You're getting 70% damage difference between doing absolutely nothing, and keeping something completely up to date.


?????

It's not progressing. You've already done it on your main and all the shit you are complaining about IS gearing. So now I'm confused. Are you okay with having to gear and progress an alt through content you've done on your main, or are you not okay with having to gear and progress an alt through content you've done on your main? Chores are chores. A boss on farm and trash you've done dozens of times isn't any less of a chore than the other weekly shit involved in keeping an alt well geared.

what do you mean not bothering to enchant? All my alts were always enchanted, but I didnt grind all reps on all alts, only on my main. The fact I didnt get 5 extra haste for the epic enchant instead of the rare enchant didnt make me lose any arena game even at 2700 rating.
But having 3, 4, 5 less gushing wounds? Yeah good luck with that. Having one less conduit row than your opponent? You already lost.
Playing in 8.2 with green essences against opponents with 3x epic essences? You cant even compete, thats what I mean when I say you are not allowed to play, because there is no way you win - Either you grind the billion chores or you dont play.

Stop acting like you havent realized how wrong you are, because we both know you have, youre comparing non mandatory toothless grinds for 1% more power to mandatory toothless grinds that are over 50% of your power

[FreeHongKong]

What? Have you ever done anything competitive in wow or is lfr the highest youve ever been? You cant get in M+ groups past a certain starting key point if youre not caught up in your chores, you cant win pvp matches past a starting point if youre behind in your chores.
That is basic wow, you have to do your chores to do any endgame content, its not a question of "your alts being as strong as your main", its a question of you being allowed to do content.

right now you cant "get a good starting point" and then only care about raiding, or pvping or doing M+, you need to continuously do weekly chores, which is "fine" in your main, but not on your alts, no expansion besides legion and bfa you were forced to do all chores on all your alts in order to be allowed to do content. tbc, wotlk, cata, mop... if you wanted to do arena and your character had the gear, that was it all you had to do was queue... now? you need to do your chores first.

Imagine if you put this much passive in real life instead of a video game..

I bet you would be very successful in life vs trying to escape it.

[Eapoe]

Yet another thread someone created that wants everything to be account wide and wants every alt they could possibly have and not do any work on those alts.

[Wuusah]

Really? Don't get me wrong, I was always raiding and clearing in the highest difficulty, even in different guilds and nobody ever really cared about the WHEN.

All I am saying is that catchups are terrible.

Yes, really. Catch up mechanics are not terrible. Without catch up mechanics you can literally NEVER CATCH UP. If you can't play for a week then you are losing all the progress from that week and that sucks. Just because it's easier to reach rank 5 next week than it is this week, doesn't mean it's worthless to reach rank 5 this week. Especially if you can reach rank 6 next week.

[Hitei]

what do you mean not bothering to enchant? All my alts were always enchanted, but I didnt grind all reps on all alts, only on my main.

And you enchanted your shoulders in Wrath and Cata with....? Your imagination?

The fact I didnt get 5 extra haste for the epic enchant instead of the rare enchant didnt make me lose any arena game even at 2700 rating.
But having 3, 4, 5 less gushing wounds? Yeah good luck with that. Having one less conduit row than your opponent? You already lost.

Lmao if you are losing because of a single conduit row, something akin to one azerite trait or a set bonus. You are just losing in general, my guy.

[Nuba]

Yet another thread someone created that wants everything to be account wide and wants every alt they could possibly have and not do any work on those alts.

I like how most of the responses on this thread are like this.
People that dont get power should be tied to progression, and instead think mindless dumb grinds are the way to go

- - - Updated - - -

And you enchanted your shoulders in Wrath and Cata with....? Your imagination?


Lmao if you are losing because of a single conduit row, something akin to one azerite trait or a set bonus. You are just losing in general, my guy.

You can buy enchants for every piece except the rep ones? But then the blue enchants were unlocked during leveling?
Like honored was literally leveling, if you werent honored by the time you were 80 you could just do some dailies while you were grinding the BG gear and by the time you were honored you never had to do those dailies ever again if you didnt want to, but I'll admit it to you I never had to grind those, ever.

I did do Sons of Hodir on my main to exalted though, but then again I grinded all the reps to exalted on my main

[Hellobolis]

er? When did I say the same power level? I dont expect my character to be in full max rank pvp gear, but I expect to be able to play with them without increasing the "chores" time.

Having to do repetitive weekly chores on every single one of your characters was never a thing, they invented this in legion and doubled down on it in bfa.

you sure? cause i distinctly remember having to do valor cap on x characters in the past. heck even had to do reputations on alts in the past on the regular.

the only thing that has changed is that they removed the endpoint to the chores.

combine that with the fact that the first half of an xpac is always less altfriendly than the second half, and yeah, having more than a few alts takes commitment.

what i've personally found is that i was spending all my time keeping my alts up to date, and almost no time actually playing my up to date alts. a kinda pointless endeavor, so now i just play the characters i want when i want, and guess what, due to the catchup systems, it's not that bad.

[Jazzhands]

So I have watched a few youtube videos on the renown system, saying that the system is really cool and people shouldnt worry about because "reasons"
I saw one from Taliesen and Evitel and another one from SoulSoBreezy (guy makes nice news content, is a noob in general but really fun and enjoyable videos)

Anyway, these guys said some stuff that just misses the point tremenduously and I wanted to discuss it here with you guys, to see if you agree with me or not.

According to them, the system is ok because it has catchups from the 2nd week onwards, meaning you wont have to start the infinite grind from behind if youre late to the party or on your alts, nice right?

But thats not really the issue, is it? The issue really is having to keep up with your alts if you're someone who likes to play competitive or simply is an altoholic who likes to do some endgame content.
Sure you can only go up one level per week, and if youre behind youll progress much faster through the earlier grind levels, but that kind of creates a kind of devastating issue, doesnt it?
Let me explain really quick: Youre on the 19th week and you just leveled an alt, you do the long grind with catchups (yay) and get to level 19 quick, then you level another one and another one. Nice uh?
But then, the 20th week comes and youll have to do the 19->20 grind on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR GAZILLION ALTS, repetitive right? How about the 21st week? Well, that will happen again, another alt? Well now you have to do 13 weekly chores instead of 12, and that is the glaring issue.
To me that sounds just like having alts in 8.3 and having to do assaults+5masks on every single one of them at least once every week...

Right now "borrowed power" (anything that isnt tied to character talent build or progression, be it M+ gear, PvP gear or Raid gear) equals to about... what? 70% of a characters power? Corruptions+Essences+Azerite+Neck and so onwards, systems put up on top of systems that represent more than your character by itself and isnt tied to any progression, but rather to an obligatory (if you want to play content) mindless grind.

So your problem is that it's too much work for alts?

Sucks but they're called alts for a reason, Blizzard shouldn't limit game design because a small niche population with 10+ characters doesn't want to spend small amounts of time grinding them every week. It's a great system for people who main mains, and I'm willing to guess that's a much larger majority of players than people who desire to gear 10+ alts to max.

[Eapoe]

It's even worse if you're a mog collector, as you'll need 16 characters - as each covenant has unique transmog for each armour class restricted to them.

I mean, maybe. Blizzard stated the xmog isn’t account wide, so if you have 1 main Hunter and 3 alt Hunters, you’re not going to be able to xmog all the sets onto your main.
This is also something that probably isnt going to change. If it does, then I personally, will just swap covenants around towards the end of the xpac to get the sets, mounts, and pets.
That said, as another point, it’s probably a good thing I don’t even like all of the sets anyways.

[Nuba]

you sure? cause i distinctly remember having to do valor cap on x characters in the past. heck even had to do reputations on alts in the past on the regular.

the only thing that has changed is that they removed the endpoint to the chores.

combine that with the fact that the first half of an xpac is always less altfriendly than the second half, and yeah, having more than a few alts takes commitment.

what i've personally found is that i was spending all my time keeping my alts up to date, and almost no time actually playing my up to date alts. a kinda pointless endeavor, so now i just play the characters i want when i want, and guess what, due to the catchup systems, it's not that bad.

Back in wotlk I only raided for the achievements in pugs, I was in Kel Thuzad server so pugs could clear even LK Heroic. PvE wasnt that hard back then though
I mostly only PvPed, and back in wotlk PvPing meant getting PvP gear (aka you play and you get gear, the better you get the better gear you get), so you only had to raid if you wanted DBW and only on the last season
I played 4 different classes and never had to do max-level non-pvp content on any character other than my main (which I did purely for fun and achievement hunting)

[Accendor]

Yes, really. Catch up mechanics are not terrible. Without catch up mechanics you can literally NEVER CATCH UP. If you can't play for a week then you are losing all the progress from that week and that sucks. Just because it's easier to reach rank 5 next week than it is this week, doesn't mean it's worthless to reach rank 5 this week. Especially if you can reach rank 6 next week.

The problem here is the timegating in combination with the catchup. Just don't timegate every small aspect and we do not have a problem here.
And besides that: It actually is fair enough if somebody can not catch up. Thats just the reards you get for playing

[tronkles]

er? When did I say the same power level? I dont expect my character to be in full max rank pvp gear, but I expect to be able to play with them without increasing the "chores" time.

Having to do repetitive weekly chores on every single one of your characters was never a thing, they invented this in legion and doubled down on it in bfa.

That's not how it works or has ever worked.

[Nuba]

That's not how it works or has ever worked.

what? thats how it has always worked before legion. tbc, wrath, cata and mop: you get to max level, you get your alt pvp ready and then thats it you only pvp from that point. No need to do dailies on it or mindless endless dumb weekly grinds, dailies were stuff you only ever did on your main or only up to a certain point if you wanted something specific on an alt
there was never an endless dumb mindless grind you were forced to do on any expansion prior to when the game became dumb and subscription numbers dropped

[Cazze]

OP, to me it seems you are a noob.

[tronkles]

what? thats how it has always worked before legion. tbc, wrath, cata and mop: you get to max level, you get your alt pvp ready and then thats it you only pvp from that point. No need to do dailies on it or mindless endless dumb weekly grinds, dailies were stuff you only ever did on your main or only up to a certain point if you wanted something specific on an alt

TBC - Rep/Attunements/badges/Dailies/Weekly arena cap (Oh yeah, get the correct rating aswell if you want to wear them)
WOTLK - Dailies/cap badges/only catchup gear was 10 man/ SOH
Cata - No catchup gear except few badges, only 5 mans were relevant farm forever, again farming revered/exalted rep for enchants

If you wanted your character to be as strong as other chars, you still needed to do content to catch up. You want your alts to be as strong as your main without putting in any work, you won't.

[Nuba]

not being a specialist in any form of endgame content in my book classifies as noob, which doesnt diminish the value of his content, he is probably my favorite wow youtuber.

[MrLachyG]

So I have watched a few youtube videos on the renown system, saying that the system is really cool and people shouldnt worry about because "reasons"
I saw one from Taliesen and Evitel and another one from SoulSoBreezy (guy makes nice news content, is a noob in general but really fun and enjoyable videos)

Anyway, these guys said some stuff that just misses the point tremenduously and I wanted to discuss it here with you guys, to see if you agree with me or not.

According to them, the system is ok because it has catchups from the 2nd week onwards, meaning you wont have to start the infinite grind from behind if youre late to the party or on your alts, nice right?

But thats not really the issue, is it? The issue really is having to keep up with your alts if you're someone who likes to play competitive or simply is an altoholic who likes to do some endgame content.
Sure you can only go up one level per week, and if youre behind youll progress much faster through the earlier grind levels, but that kind of creates a kind of devastating issue, doesnt it?
Let me explain really quick: Youre on the 19th week and you just leveled an alt, you do the long grind with catchups (yay) and get to level 19 quick, then you level another one and another one. Nice uh?
But then, the 20th week comes and youll have to do the 19->20 grind on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR GAZILLION ALTS, repetitive right? How about the 21st week? Well, that will happen again, another alt? Well now you have to do 13 weekly chores instead of 12, and that is the glaring issue.
To me that sounds just like having alts in 8.3 and having to do assaults+5masks on every single one of them at least once every week...

Right now "borrowed power" (anything that isnt tied to character talent build or progression, be it M+ gear, PvP gear or Raid gear) equals to about... what? 70% of a characters power? Corruptions+Essences+Azerite+Neck and so onwards, systems put up on top of systems that represent more than your character by itself and isnt tied to any progression, but rather to an obligatory (if you want to play content) mindless grind.

first off, it's a finite grind. as in you can only get a certain amount a week. so no, not an infinite grind like AP was the last couple of expansions. secondly, the way the catchup mechanic works is that let's say you start the expansion off by levelling your main, you focus on that for a few weeks and then you decide you want to level an alt. so first week you might need (pulling numbers out of my ass) 100 renown to hit level 2, 200 for level 3, 300 for level 4. however if you level an alt in week 2 the numbers might've dropped to 95/190/285. week 3 it drops to 90/185/280. and so on and so on. meaning if you decide in 9.1 to level a new main it could be 5/10/15 to get to level 4

[Nuba]

TBC - Rep/Attunements/badges/Dailies/Weekly arena cap (Oh yeah, get the correct rating aswell if you want to wear them)
WOTLK - Dailies/cap badges/only catchup gear was 10 man/ SOH
Cata - No catchup gear except few badges, only 5 mans were relevant farm forever, again farming revered/exalted rep for enchants

If you wanted your character to be as strong as other chars, you still needed to do content to catch up. You want your alts to be as strong as your main without putting in any work, you won't.

weekly arena cap wasnt a dumb mindless grind, it was content. weekly raid lockout neither, it is content, the things you want to do with your alts. the valor you only had to do if you wanted something specific from the vendor and even that was never necessary, ever.
Those are things you WANT to do, not things youre forced to do.

NOBODY levels alts saying "omg cant wait to do 50 visions with this alt once I am max level"

I literally never had to do a single grind on any of my alts and they were all fully geared, fully enchanted and fully gemmed and fully decked out in gear only from pvping.
here is one I havent touched since wotlk, the resilience gems were removed from the game when they reworked them, but no grind was ever done in it, this was my least played alt.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...elthuzad/nubas
This is how every single alt was in wotlk: you get to max level, do BGs for honor gear and then straight to arenas.

[dcc626]

Really? Don't get me wrong, I was always raiding and clearing in the highest difficulty, even in different guilds and nobody ever really cared about the WHEN.

All I am saying is that catchups are terrible.

i mean, you either have catchups or you dont get to play alts really. is that your preference?

i know your actual preference is account wide everything, but we both know thats never happening.

[Mic_128]

I mean, maybe. Blizzard stated the xmog isn’t account wide, so if you have 1 main Hunter and 3 alt Hunters, you’re not going to be able to xmog all the sets onto your main.
This is also something that probably isnt going to change. If it does, then I personally, will just swap covenants around towards the end of the xpac to get the sets, mounts, and pets.
That said, as another point, it’s probably a good thing I don’t even like all of the sets anyways.

Oh yeah, I agree entirely. If it was me, I'd just pick the one that I'd want and leave it at that. But you know there's completionists out there that want everything, so it sucks to be them!