1. #3081
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Yeah, uh, no.
    Only because zombies in general are unrealistic, but the fungus they describe does zombify insects, most people know about the one that affects ants. Therefor, their explanation for the zombies is realistic because it is built upon a real world fungus.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
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  2. #3082
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Only because zombies in general are unrealistic, but the fungus they describe does zombify insects, most people know about the one that affects ants. Therefor, their explanation for the zombies is realistic because it is built upon a real world fungus.
    Fungus infected insect don't roam around charging other insects. They clumsily climb up whatever they can find and die.

    Calling them "based on real life" is a massive stretch. We might as well say Halo Spartans are realistic because performance enhancing drugs are real, so it's really close to genetic enhancement implanted at age 14.

  3. #3083
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Fungus infected insect don't roam around charging other insects. They clumsily climb up whatever they can find and die.

    Calling them "based on real life" is a massive stretch. We might as well say Halo Spartans are realistic because performance enhancing drugs are real, so it's really close to genetic enhancement implanted at age 14.
    Well, it would be right because they are. Just because you go "it's a massive stretch" doesn't mean it is. Hell, if you looked into some of the research such as genetic engineering, exosuits, etc ... all are very possible tech we could have. The Spartans aren't the stretch in Halo.

    I don't think you understand what based on real life means. It doesn't mean 100% accurate to reality, it means that it is something that could be potentially real. A fungal infection that changes behavior is possible. A fungal infection that affects the brain is possible. Fungal infections that zombify animals is possible. It isn't a stretch by any measure to say it is based on real life. You can only say that out of ignorance or personal bias, not any factual argument.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  4. #3084
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Well, it would be right because they are. Just because you go "it's a massive stretch" doesn't mean it is. Hell, if you looked into some of the research such as genetic engineering, exosuits, etc ... all are very possible tech we could have. The Spartans aren't the stretch in Halo.

    I don't think you understand what based on real life means. It doesn't mean 100% accurate to reality, it means that it is something that could be potentially real. A fungal infection that changes behavior is possible. A fungal infection that affects the brain is possible. Fungal infections that zombify animals is possible. It isn't a stretch by any measure to say it is based on real life. You can only say that out of ignorance or personal bias, not any factual argument.
    Fungal infections that turn people into the Rat King are totally possible!

    TLOU is as out there as Resident Evil is when you start factoring in Clickers, Shamblers, Stalkers, Bloaters and The Rat King. If it was just runners you would have a tiny argument here, but it's not.

  5. #3085
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Well, it would be right because they are. Just because you go "it's a massive stretch" doesn't mean it is. Hell, if you looked into some of the research such as genetic engineering, exosuits, etc ... all are very possible tech we could have. The Spartans aren't the stretch in Halo.

    I don't think you understand what based on real life means. It doesn't mean 100% accurate to reality, it means that it is something that could be potentially real. A fungal infection that changes behavior is possible. A fungal infection that affects the brain is possible. Fungal infections that zombify animals is possible. It isn't a stretch by any measure to say it is based on real life. You can only say that out of ignorance or personal bias, not any factual argument.
    Just to further back your statements:

    While viral and not a fungus, Rabies is already proven to be behavior altering

    If we're sticking to the topic of fungus specifically, I'll present Massospora cicadina:
    The infected male cicadas put on a ruse, much like the Sirens of Greek myths; they flick their wings like a female, and lure in healthy unsuspecting males, who get close enough to be exposed to the spores, leading to their doom. The diseased males will also attempt to copulate with the uninfected females, exposing them to even more spores.
    https://www.dw.com/en/five-freaky-co...ior/a-18043053 also list a few other behavior altering viruses / bacteria.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ior_and_Beyond offers more

    From an article on Scientific America:
    he mix of art design and plausibility gives the choice to model an apocalypse on Cordyceps both scientific rigor and beauty.

    I doubt the zombie apocalypse will ever actually happen even it were scientifically plausible. Despite my skepticism, plausibility obviously has nothing to do with why zombies are so popular. They are a fascinating metaphor for our own fear of both death and predators (and who doesn’t like gore-porn?). Scientific plausibility is just icing on the cake.

  6. #3086
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Well, it would be right because they are. Just because you go "it's a massive stretch" doesn't mean it is. Hell, if you looked into some of the research such as genetic engineering, exosuits, etc ... all are very possible tech we could have. The Spartans aren't the stretch in Halo.

    I don't think you understand what based on real life means. It doesn't mean 100% accurate to reality, it means that it is something that could be potentially real. A fungal infection that changes behavior is possible. A fungal infection that affects the brain is possible. Fungal infections that zombify animals is possible. It isn't a stretch by any measure to say it is based on real life. You can only say that out of ignorance or personal bias, not any factual argument.
    I'm just going to go ahead and be on the side of "Girl who trains at compound that clearly does not have any food supply problems from all the agriculture we see, is more realistic than mushroom zombies".

    Because it's about ten billion times more based on real life than mushroom zombies. You can keep whinging about "this fictional woman's physique breaks the realism in muh video game" all you want though.

  7. #3087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Fungal infections that turn people into the Rat King are totally possible!

    TLOU is as out there as Resident Evil is when you start factoring in Clickers, Shamblers, Stalkers, Bloaters and The Rat King. If it was just runners you would have a tiny argument here, but it's not.
    That is where the suspension of disbelief comes in. They are the next step beyond what happens in nature, therefor yes, it is possible. There is a point you just have to accept something, it is based on what it is built off of. A weak base makes it unrealistic, a strong base built on real things make something believably possible.

    Given your current track record in this topic, is there anything you actually understand? Please go back to ignoring me, I liked it better that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    I'm just going to go ahead and be on the side of "Girl who trains at compound that clearly does not have any food supply problems from all the agriculture we see, is more realistic than mushroom zombies".

    Because it's about ten billion times more based on real life than mushroom zombies. You can keep whinging about "this fictional woman's physique breaks the realism in muh video game" all you want though.
    Because it is a bodybuilder physique of a woman who is currently part of a faction at war who is somehow give the hours needed to train to not just keep the muscle mass, but build it ... while at the same time being the Number 1 Scar killer of her faction ... seriously, you ignore big problems with her physique that don't add up in the story they are trying to tell.

    It is 10 trillion times less believable because of how the story is built. We don't see Abby working out, it is implied very loosely. We don't see her consuming anything more than a single burrito, the entire game. Again, I said yes, a woman could have that physique in the real world ... a woman is extremely unlikely to have that physique in the world of TLoU.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2020-08-11 at 08:25 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  8. #3088
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Because it is a bodybuilder physique of a woman who is currently part of a faction at war who is somehow give the hours needed to train to not just keep the muscle mass, but build it ... while at the same time being the Number 1 Scar killer of her faction ... seriously, you ignore big problems with her physique that don't add up in the story they are trying to tell.
    I mean...being the #1 killer would generally mean she's engaged in a lot of heavy physical activity to like...you know, kill the fuck outta the seraphites, no?

    And that she works out in addition to that? I mean, it's not as if she's just naturally jacked as fuck from sitting on her ass all day.

    Why the fuck is a menagerie of spore zombies believable but Abby being jacked as fuck is a bridge too far?

  9. #3089
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    Any fiction requires suspension of disbelief, but it also needs internal consistency. In a world of great resource scarcity where a major plotpoint is lack of food, forcing people into cannibalism, a bodybuilder seems pretty stupid.

    For the record, imo Abby's physique is a minor flaw in TLOU2, but it is a flaw.
    That's my view as well. It's hardly important, but it damages the credibility of a setting that otherwise works quite hard to maintain it. I feel that they could have made Abby a big, strong woman without going to the extreme of giving her the physique of a modern bodybuilder who has access to a very specific training regiment, diet, personal coaches and sundry supplements. Make her look like Brienne in Game of Thrones and call it a day, no need for the extra ripped muscles.
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  10. #3090
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I mean...being the #1 killer would generally mean she's engaged in a lot of heavy physical activity to like...you know, kill the fuck outta the seraphites, no?

    And that she works out in addition to that? I mean, it's not as if she's just naturally jacked as fuck from sitting on her ass all day.

    Why the fuck is a menagerie of spore zombies believable but Abby being jacked as fuck is a bridge too far?
    No, I can fully believe she could have a muscular physique ... I cannot believe she would be more jacked than pretty much everyone else in her faction.
    Hell, the only people more jacked than her in the game are some of the Seraphites that I can recall.



    If she looked like that, I wouldn't have a problem hell, even if she had larger muscles than the woman above, but not to the size they gave her, I would have less of a problem. The problem isn't the fact she has muscles, it is how she seem to have devoted herself to body building and yet somehow is in combat enough to be the #1 Scar Killer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    That's my view as well. It's hardly important, but it damages the credibility of a setting that otherwise works quite hard to maintain it. I feel that they could have made Abby a big, strong woman without going to the extreme of giving her the physique of a modern bodybuilder who has access to a very specific training regiment, diet, personal coaches and sundry supplements. Make her look like Brienne in Game of Thrones and call it a day, no need for the extra ripped muscles.
    Other points for Brienne ... she is seen training, she talks about what she does and why she does it. It is part of the character and the world that GRRM and later Game of Thrones built.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2020-08-11 at 08:39 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  11. #3091
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Nice strawman.

    A good story game must have one of these (preferably both):
    1. Gameplay and Story are in sync
    2. Player agency in the story

    Last of us 2 is none of those. It's just a movie with regular interruptions for an interactive ad for some mildly related game in the same universe.
    The lone voice of sanity on this thread.

    People seem to handwave the fact that the game is tonally inconsistent, disrespectful to the predecessor, and horribly paced. Have fun spending an hour plugging in some generators because Ellie apparently can't climb. Have fun watching a pregnant woman go into combat, die, and then try and make you feel like you're to blame for her actions.

    Oh and enjoy playing as an irredeemable character. It's like Yong said in his review, Abby's butchering of Joel in front of, as far as she knows, his daughter is psychopathic levels of evil. If you felt anything for Abby after that, you're delusional and simply wanted to like the game because you're emotionally invested in the first one (and there is nothing wrong with disliking the sequel if it was genuinely shit).

    I feel like this game was intended to have choices in it, but they were removed during development because Naughty Dog knew it would make writing a sequel harder.

  12. #3092
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    That is where the suspension of disbelief comes in. They are the next step beyond what happens in nature, therefor yes, it is possible. There is a point you just have to accept something, it is based on what it is built off of. A weak base makes it unrealistic, a strong base built on real things make something believably possible.
    Sure show me the insect rat king based off current known fungal infections. It's possible so link the scientific basis for it huh? Should be so easy right?

    Imagine being worried about the size of muscles in a world that literally has a fucking rat king, brock lesnar sized bloaters throwing acid grenades at you, stalkers that are as nimble and quick as an AC protag etc.

    Suspension of disbelief for all this crazy ass non sense going on, but you're worried about the size of muscles from a woman who trains in the Seahawks training facility and has a community self sufficient on food supply is an issue. You really can't make this shit up.

  13. #3093
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Sure show me the insect rat king based off current known fungal infections. It's possible so link the scientific basis for it huh? Should be so easy right?

    Imagine being worried about the size of muscles in a world that literally has a fucking rat king, brock lesnar sized bloaters throwing acid grenades at you, stalkers that are as nimble and quick as an AC protag etc.

    Suspension of disbelief for all this crazy ass non sense going on, but you're worried about the size of muscles from a woman who trains in the Seahawks training facility and has a community self sufficient on food supply is an issue. You really can't make this shit up.
    The Rat King wasn't just cause by the fungal infection. I suggest you look up what can happen to rats that live too close to each other.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  14. #3094
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    No, I can fully believe she could have a muscular physique ... I cannot believe she would be more jacked than pretty much everyone else in her faction.
    Hell, the only people more jacked than her in the game are some of the Seraphites that I can recall.
    Again, suspension of disbelief for zombie creating spores, exosuits, genetic engineering etc. is all fine

    But when it comes to Abby being jacked as fuck one cannot suspend their disbelief.

    It's just weird that suspension of disbelief is so selective/inconsistent.

  15. #3095
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    I feel like this game was intended to have choices in it, but they were removed during development because Naughty Dog knew it would make writing a sequel harder.
    Quite a fucking conspiracy theory when ND has never had choices in their games, and had to argue their vision for the first one when people where mad about not having a choice at the end of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    The Rat King wasn't just cause by the fungal infection. I suggest you look up what can happen to rats that live too close to each other.
    Yea except for the part where it's not an actual rat king, that's just the name of it and where the inspiration came from. It's literally infected gooping together like clumps of play dough to create 1 organism. It's becoming clear to me you didn't even play the game and have no idea wtf the actual "rat king" in the game is.

  16. #3096
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Again, suspension of disbelief for zombie creating spores, exosuits, genetic engineering etc. is all fine

    But when it comes to Abby being jacked as fuck one cannot suspend their disbelief.

    It's just weird that suspension of disbelief is so selective/inconsistent.
    Because it matters what parts are used to build up to that point. There is no comments of Abby working out, eating a lot, etc ... she is jacked because she is jacked. The workout equipment is there, but we don't see her using it and we only see her eat a burrito. Then she is somehow in Combat enough, despite being gone for months on her Joel quest to still be treated as Number 1 Scar killer.

    The parts that are used to build up the infection are not as weak.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Yea except for the part where it's not an actual rat king, that's just the name of it and where the inspiration came from. It's literally infected gooping together like clumps of play dough to create 1 organism. It's becoming clear to me you didn't even play the game and have no idea wtf the actual "rat king" in the game is.
    Except it is clearly not one orgasm at all given that one part of it breaks off during the fight. Did you play the game?
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  17. #3097
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Yea except for the part where it's not an actual rat king, that's just the name of it and where the inspiration came from. It's literally infected gooping together like clumps of play dough to create 1 organism. It's becoming clear to me you didn't even play the game and have no idea wtf the actual "rat king" in the game is.
    https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Rat_King

    It appears to have formed by being sealed in a room so full of spores that as the fungal growths bloomed and spread, the Infected were merged into each other.
    The Rat King is based on a real life phenomenon, where numerous rats are found constrained together because their tails intertwine or bound together

  18. #3098
    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    I'm not sure what you where trying to prove wrong with this, but hey thanks for the try.

    It's not a real world rat king, it was inspired by it.

    But let's live in some bullshit reality where you think infected merging with each other and behaving as a single organism is the same thing as tails and fur getting stuck to each other. Let's also live in some bullshit reality where lets humor the fact this happened, the thing literally lives for decades sealed away with no access to food. Even actual real world rat kings die off rather quickly once they're formed, because it's not viable let alone decades with no food.

    So lets cut the bullshit right here and now if you're claiming that thing is more believable then Abby's physic. You shouldn't even bother to reply tbh.

  19. #3099
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    I'm not sure what you where trying to prove wrong with this, but hey thanks for the try.

    It's not a real world rat king, it was inspired by it.

    But let's live in some bullshit reality where you think infected merging with each other and behaving as a single organism is the same thing as tails and fur getting stuck to each other. Let's also live in some bullshit reality where lets humor the fact this happened, the thing literally lives for decades sealed away with no access to food. Even actual real world rat kings die off rather quickly once they're formed, because it's not viable let alone decades with no food.

    So lets cut the bullshit right here and now if you're claiming that thing is more believable then Abby's physic. You shouldn't even bother to reply tbh.
    In the Rat King fight, part of it BREAKS AWAY. They are not "behaving as a single organism." And given the infected naturally swarm noninfected, it is clear that working together is a thing they do. Again I ask you, did you really play the game?

    Take your own advice, cut your bullshit and not bother to reply outside to apologize for you lying.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  20. #3100
    TLOU2 spoilers(and Battlestar Galactica):

    Did Lev play a role in Ellie deciding to let Abby live? If you don't know, tell me what you think the reason was, please. I personally think it was a heavy influence on her decision, because IRL it would be a heavy influence on that decision, for almost anyone. Yes, Ellie knew of Lev before the ending, but also the condition of Lev and Abby played a huge role in her decisions. If they were eating and laughing and fart/belching playing cards when she showed up, I think she makes a different decision. Circumstances mattered here.

    What if they had found the fireflies before Ellie showed up, with Ellie's history, what would she have done then? Would she have attacked the fireflies again, in their upstart delicate state, for revenge(ending the organization once and for all)?

    In the new battlestar galactica, the Cylons occupy the colony on New Caprica, and after they(the humans) escape, a jury takes it upon themselves(with secret permission) to hunt down and kill the humans who worked with the cylons. Mr. Gaeta had been sneaking info to the resistance in a dead drop(a dog bowl to be precise), but the jury didn't know it(and Gaeta refused to beg for his life and tell the whole story because he expected death anyway) and sentenced him to death anyway. Luckily they found out that he was the reason they got rescued in the first place. Are the act's that Abby did to save Lev not her dog bowl dead drop? She didn't save everyone, but she gave up herself to save just one, like Joel, and like Joel, she was redeemed.
    Last edited by Zenfoldor; 2020-08-11 at 10:15 PM.

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