FFXIV the worst game I've tried in a while

[Wrecktangle]

Are you being purposely obtuse? You can look at the community as a whole and see that the primary thing that keeps people engaged with the game is the story and characters. If you look at most of the reviews for Shadowbringers you will see that they cite the story as the game's strongest area: https://www.pcgamer.com/final-fantas...ingers-review/ and https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/07...ringers-review as examples. Even going so far to say that it is now one of, if not the best Final Fantasy games and Final Fantasy is a series known for its strong story.

Also your interpretation of the data is completely off kilter. You can't assume that the people who tried and quit did so because of the story based purely off of active subs vs accounts created. Many people have cited slow and boring gameplay as a big problem in the early game as well. Ignoring the fact that creating an account is free and thus many people who may have never been interested in an MMO, but wanted to try the game because it's Final Fantasy would try the game and see it's not their kind of game. But I also admitted in my post that the story has a slow start. Just because the beginning is boring doesn't mean the other 3 expansions who's stories match the length of the base game don't matter. Also if the active sub numbers are low, that could also mean that once people are done with the story, they quit because they only care about the story and not the endgame.

The game has other merits, but it is known in the wider MMO community as one of the MMOs with a strong story.

This is not a fair assessment. You'd need to know the baseline retention rate before you could judge if FFXIV does better or worse. I believe even WoW said that 70% of new players leave within a month.

It's just a fact of life that a lot of people will try the game but were never a real possibility of becoming a subscriber.

The point I was trying to make is that it's really easy to make that claim based on opinion and not data (we don't have the data) just like I did. You can vilify me for my retort, but if you fail to see that it is functionally identical to both of yours than you misunderstood the exercise.

So to answer your question, yes I was being purposely obtuse. I don't think it's fair to say there are "many more people" as such an absolute as you did, much like I would never make the statement off the cuff in seriousness like I did above.

You also mention "the community" as a whole, but that's a fallacy in and of itself. Which community? Here? Reddit? The OF? Not to mention that actual majority rarely interact in any form of media to begin with.

I don't know why WoW was brought up, I didn't see it in the scope of the discussion to begin with.

Please understand that I am a fan of the game and quite enjoy the story even myself, but I tend to call out misinformation or inappropriate generalizations as I think they're unhealthy to perpetuate.

[Poppincaps]

The point I was trying to make is that it's really easy to make that claim based on opinion and not data (we don't have the data) just like I did. You can vilify me for my retort, but if you fail to see that it is functionally identical to both of yours than you misunderstood the exercise.

So to answer your question, yes I was being purposely obtuse. I don't think it's fair to say there are "many more people" as such an absolute as you did, much like I would never make the statement off the cuff in seriousness like I did above.

You also mention "the community" as a whole, but that's a fallacy in and of itself. Which community? Here? Reddit? The OF? Not to mention that actual majority rarely interact in any form of media to begin with.

I don't know why WoW was brought up, I didn't see it in the scope of the discussion to begin with.

Please understand that I am a fan of the game and quite enjoy the story even myself, but I tend to call out misinformation or inappropriate generalizations as I think they're unhealthy to perpetuate.

I don't think the idea that the majority of the playerbase of FFXIV primarily plays for the story is misinformation nor is it unhealthy. When you're trying to get someone to play FFXIV, one of the things you're going to mention is that it has a strong story. Why? Because it is generally accepted that this is the case. Will everyone like the story? Definitely not, but if you want a good story alongside an MMO, FFXIV is the first game I'd recommend to people.

Do I know the exact scientific reason that the sun rises ever morning and sets every evening? Yes. Could I prove it to you myself? Of course not, but I've witnessed it enough in my life to know that even without science that, that is how the sun works. I have seen the overwhelming majority of people say they love the story. I do occasionally see people who bag on the story, although most of those people haven't gotten past ARR (like I said in my original post) and I also have a friend who skipped the story entirely. Not because it's bad, but simply because he doesn't care. Is this all anecdotal evidence? Sure. Are the MMO-Champion Forums a Presidential Debate where everything has to be backed up by scientific fact? No.

So unless you've had a significantly different experience with the general playerbase than I have, I don't know why you're arguing with me. Unless it's to play devil's advocate for something you don't even believe in, in which case that's just a huge waste of both our times.

[Advent]

So unless you've had a significantly different experience with the general playerbase than I have, I don't know why you're arguing with me. Unless it's to play devil's advocate for something you don't even believe in, in which case that's just a huge waste of both our times.

I don't know about Wreck, but I sure have. Most people I've met in-game say they picked up and kept playing because of the look and atmosphere of the game. It apparently appealed to their love of cutesy stuff, and some with the medieval armor style. Very few I've come across cite the story as why they're playing. In fact, quite a few have said that they bought story skips to "Get to the good parts".

[KrayZ33]

I have a hard time believing anyone in that regard. (Either point of view)
Who goes around and asks "Why did you start playing FFXIV"

I don't think anyone has a true grasp and can only make a fair guess when it comes to that.
What I can say is that it's pretty much idiotic to play this game when you aren't also in for the story, like - you are not doing yourself a favor.
So in a way, I would say Poppincaps has the edge here.

Since the majority of the game is story, I'd be hard pressed to not at least consider that the majority of the playerbase is interested in the story.

Since the minority actually raids or has beaten Savage raids (and this is something that has statistics to back it up) it's hard to say that "they want to see cool bosses" etc. and since bosses are basically the only part in the game where you can truely do combat and dungeons won't last more than a week in terms of "content", the majority shouldn't be in for it for "gameplay"-reasons either, not to mention all the issues with gameplay in general.

This is also one of reason why I think all the people saying "FFXIV has a problem" and start talking about how it needs more raid content and more of XY yada-yada, are looking at the game in a completely wrong light. They want to turn the game into something it isn't - and that's probably why people get "angry" whenever the topic of "this game needs XY" comes up.


When it comes to me, I'm in for the casual mindset, cool bosses, cool - funny - interesting and rather complex story and characters and the cute and also awesome looking transmogs.
When it's about WoW, I'm in for the gameplay (rotation,game-feedback etc.) and raids and mythic+ (everything else might as well not exist in my eyes)

So I don't know what that says about me and what I wrote earlier.

[Pannonian]

I have a hard time believing anyone in that regard. (Either point of view)
Who goes around and asks "Why did you start playing FFXIV"

I don't think anyone has a true grasp and can only make a fair guess when it comes to that.
What I can say is that it's pretty much idiotic to play this game when you aren't also in for the story, like - you are not doing yourself a favor.
So in a way, I would say Poppincaps has the edge here.

Since the majority of the game is story, I'd be hard pressed to not at least consider that the majority of the playerbase is interested in the story.

Since the minority actually raids or has beaten Savage raids (and this is something that has statistics to back it up) it's hard to say that "they want to see cool bosses" etc. and since bosses are basically the only part in the game where you can truely do combat and dungeons won't last more than a week in terms of "content", the majority shouldn't be in for it for "gameplay"-reasons either, not to mention all the issues with gameplay in general.

This is also one of reason why I think all the people saying "FFXIV has a problem" and start talking about how it needs more raid content and more of XY yada-yada, are looking at the game in a completely wrong light. They want to turn the game into something it isn't - and that's probably why people get "angry" whenever the topic of "this game needs XY" comes up.


When it comes to me, I'm in for the casual mindset, cool bosses, cool - funny - interesting and rather complex story and characters and the cute and also awesome looking transmogs.
When it's about WoW, I'm in for the gameplay (rotation,game-feedback etc.) and raids and mythic+ (everything else might as well not exist in my eyes)

So I don't know what that says about me and what I wrote earlier.

Funny thing though, i love the gameplay of the game.

Some people recently got me into ESO, which had a really nice story which i enjoyed, but the combat - urgh. After a session of question in ESO i often logged into FF14 to just play a dungeon, because i like to play my job in ff 14.

And to add to this: while there are jobs that require you to play a piano (hi dragoon!) - it's not all of them. There are also jobs based on a priority system which i like a lot (especially those that turn into whack-a-mole)

[Cazze]

Funny thing, I always hear praising the game for it's story, but never have i heard someone argue why exactly is it so good. (the only thing i know i some deathwing ripoff guy)

Also, even if it is that good, I don't find it a good sign that this is the only good thing people can say about an mmo.

[Pannonian]

Funny thing, I always hear praising the game for it's story, but never have i heard someone argue why exactly is it so good. (the only thing i know i some deathwing ripoff guy)

Also, even if it is that good, I don't find it a good sign that this is the only good thing people can say about an mmo.

Why is the story good? I wouldn't say the story is good per se. The story is more or less generic and predictable, and tbh medicore. But that's not all. It's the world building around it, which is excellent. Everything has a story behind it. It make for a believable world (contrasted by WoW themeparks, where it feels like plastered on top), but the biggest reason for me:

The presentation of the story. YOU are the hero. YOU are the the focal point of every story. Even if there are 1000 people standing around the quest NPC, when the cutscene starts they all vanish and you are the center. While in WoW (especially in BFA) i always felt like a sidekick to the important lore-characters.

Just more of an RP feeling. Adding the presentation (much more cutscenes + dialogues) make even a medicore story a great experience.

Though as stated above, while the story is always great to play when patches come out, what really gets me back every time is playing the game itself + combat.

[Akibaboy]

The story isn't bad, you just don't like it. Which is why you see so many people praising it, but there are also plenty of people like you who dislike it.

I'm not disagreeing with anything else you said, by the way, just the story part as I personally enjoy it immensely.

I love XIV. Final Fantasy is also my favorite series. That said, the story is often pretty bad in this game in its moment to moment execution. If it were told in a different format, or its main beats and drama handled differently, the events culminate into something good - but the actual experiencing of it just flails and falters on a bunch of levels. Redundant arcs and drama are repeated over and over (I think in Stormblood I counted 6 different instances of quests that involved "help this guy who's bad at something believe in himself and suddenly he's good at something and everyone loves him"... in the very same expansion!), dramatic moments and reveals are often misused or fall flat, and often you'll spend hours working up towards some development that essentially trivializes you efforts and makes you wonder why the hell you did all that.

I think one of my best examples (attempts to be spoiler free here) is a situation where a character is holding up a collapsing building you're in... and rather than running to safety, everyone gives their tearful goodbyes for 10 minutes. IMMEDIATELY AFTER that scene, one of your party basically comments "He's fine. We'll grab him from the lake" What. The. Hell. Why did I just spend forever mourning someone who the game instantly tells me is OK? There are countless instances like this where the dialogue, pacing, and scenario itself just break all logic because some writer said "We need this moment to happen"... and the universe contorts around it to make it happen.

Regardless of how good the story ends up being at whatever culminations it comes to at times, the pacing, dialogue, and execution have left me consistently baffled... and that's coming from someone who gives Final Fantasy's stories a lot of wiggle room and forgiveness for being cheesy or anime.

[Deneios]

Dark knight rotation is 1-2-3 on single target and then just empty the gauge. Multi mob is 1-2 and empty. Sure you have cd that you use to burst or mitigate damage.

Samurai is also easy as hell. You do 3 different combos of 3 skills except for one that is 2 skills and all of them start with the same skill. You get "combo point" from one combo and use a finishing move with 3 points. If you can play assasination rogue you can play samurai in ffxiv. Multi mob is just 2 button combo and finisher. Rest of the skills are cooldowns, movement and gauge empty 0gcd.
Main point is to not fumble your current combo and not to do same combo again before using a finisher. The rest is just avoid dmg and keep the rotation going.

If havoc DH with felblade and demon blades spec is too hard of a rotation then i suggest not trying ffxiv with any class.

[Pannonian]

Dark knight rotation is 1-2-3 on single target and then just empty the gauge. Multi mob is 1-2 and empty. Sure you have cd that you use to burst or mitigate damage.

Samurai is also easy as hell. You do 3 different combos of 3 skills except for one that is 2 skills and all of them start with the same skill. You get "combo point" from one combo and use a finishing move with 3 points. If you can play assasination rogue you can play samurai in ffxiv. Multi mob is just 2 button combo and finisher. Rest of the skills are cooldowns, movement and gauge empty 0gcd.
Main point is to not fumble your current combo and not to do same combo again before using a finisher. The rest is just avoid dmg and keep the rotation going.

If havoc DH with felblade and demon blades spec is too hard of a rotation then i suggest not trying ffxiv with any class.

ALL tanks are easy since ShB. Probably to get more players into tanking.

For DPS jobs it depends. Some of them have simple rotations, but there are others with rigid rotations that punish mistakes heavily.

[Puremallace]

18 pages and all that needs to be said is some people will like what you just described and some people will like WoW rotations. There is not some unwritten rule that says only 1 popular MMO can exist at a time.

Could you imagine a world where the 2 MMO's were identical with developers who have the same approach? It would be boring. Not everything needs to be the next WoW killer. If anything new MMO's that come along show the charm of WoW.

[sephrinx]

To be honest, I'd rather sit in my room and stare at a blank white screen for 5 hours than to do the My Story Quest garbage in this game.

Instead of just being bored, I'd instead be bored, annoyed, and aggravated. I can't see how people enjoy it, it's so bad. They didn't even seem to try to make it fun or engaging.

If you think "Travel through 399 loading screens to talk to someone and click through 14 pages of dialogue, and then return to me" is engaging and exciting content then I applaud you and would be slightly envious of your simple ability to be entertaining by tedium.

No one I talked to in the game really said that they enjoyed the story of leveling as a whole. They said it was a hurdle and "you're better off just buying a boost" because it's so bad. If the people who are playing the game are trying to sell new comers into buying a boost, instead of experiencing the game for themselves, you know there's a problem with it.

It's like you've read the first 50 pages of a 1000 page book and think you know what it's about.

Just read the back of the book and you know generally what it's about. A 1-3 paragraph synopsis is more than enough to give you a handle on what the book will be about. If I read the first 50 pages of a book and am not interested and invested in the story, I stop reading the book. No different with FFXIV. If I get 40+ levels in and it's fucking awful the entire time, I can pretty wisely assume the rest of the game will be just the same.

[Schmittay]

18 pages and all that needs to be said is some people will like what you just described and some people will like WoW rotations. There is not some unwritten rule that says only 1 popular MMO can exist at a time.

Could you imagine a world where the 2 MMO's were identical with developers who have the same approach? It would be boring. Not everything needs to be the next WoW killer. If anything new MMO's that come along show the charm of WoW.

And some people even enjoy both

[Sevarin]

Just because that's what you play the game for doesn't mean it is also what everyone else is doing.

i mean... thats not what i played the game for, and i saw it going on C O N S T A N T L Y in limsa. never mind the crap that goes on behind closed doors, thankfully.

i couldnt go to limsa without people emoting basically erp right out in the open, in the main city. its kind of irritating and pathetic. do that shit in private ffs.

also if you played a female character - even with fully clothed conservative glamours, random people would literally message you, be friendly, and it would 9 times out of 10 lead to them trying to erp with you. its just like ew no, go the hell away. i dont care if you like my glamour, im fully clothed, not in some slutmog. go erp one of the 50 cat sluts in panties running around.

maybe i just picked a bad server. but to be fair i picked hyperion long before that moronic kotaku article about the damn brothel (yeah, they even have brothels in game that you can literally BUY erp in), because kotaku will do anything for views.

thats not why i stopped playing though. i hated eureka. from what i heard this expansion was supposed to be more eureka essentially. just because people do it - for relic weapons because they want their relic weapons - doesnt mean it is a success. that and they made crafting and gathering so stupidly easy to do, and more importantly, to level.... that one of the main things i enjoyed in that game, crafting and making gil, became completely worthless.

yeah i still have my 3 houses, and i love my 3 houses, but im thinking of even selling those and just being done with the game. the combat is slow, i dont like the feeling of a 2.5 second global cooldown, so i dont enjoy combat too much. it can be fun at times, but it just feels so slow. and getting gear just doesnt feel like ive even gotten an upgrade. i can get a 30 ilvl upgrade on a weapon and its like... alright. im doing basically the same damage. neat. they gear sync you down even in current expansions, so you never really feel strong even in dungeons, and dear god i HATE level sync. when all of your attacks are basically combos, and you cant complete those combos after youve gotten to max level and are used to them, its just horrible.


still, the game has its merits, and i played it for about 6 years on and off while playing wow. im not a fan of the story personally. the visuals are far far far more appealing to me than those in wow, mostly the characters and gear, dyable gear being great. not everything is a reskin of the same thing for the last 15 years outside of shoulders and helm, which i tend to hide anyway because theyre ridiculous. i do prefer the landscapes in wow. just looking from the sky, its sometimes crazy how amazing they can be. the character customization is (was? SL customization lookin pretty good so far tbh, but theyre still a ways off) far better than wow too.

the fact that you can be all jobs on a single character is a huge draw as well. player housing... isnt really done super well in ff14, but you can still make some really nice houses. the limitations on placement and such are one of the downsides. that and item caps. item caps are my bane. when you need to use cheat engine to be able to do housing the way you want, and still not be able to remove all the limitations on placement, its a bit disappointing.

[Poppincaps]

Funny thing, I always hear praising the game for it's story, but never have i heard someone argue why exactly is it so good. (the only thing i know i some deathwing ripoff guy)

Also, even if it is that good, I don't find it a good sign that this is the only good thing people can say about an mmo.

Hmm I would describe it as this and I'll use anime as an example since it's more obvious in anime. There are anime out there that are short, sweet 12 episode series. You get in, you get a nice compact story, and then it's over. If done well it can be very impactful or it can leave more to be desired. There are also anime like Naruto or One Piece that have spanned literal decades and hundreds of episodes. You watch these characters grow through many different arcs and over many years. These shows also take a lot more time to build out the world and the characters in it.

Now of course not everyone has the time or patience to go through all that, but this is what I believe is the strength of MMO storytelling. You get to experience the game over many years, watch the characters grow, and watch old characters return to the spotlight. It feels more impactful because not only have they been gone for a long time in game, they've been gone for a long time in terms of your time playing it. FFXIV does a good job of establishing likable characters, developing them, and having them play a part in the story throughout several years and expansions. Additionally, almost everything in the game has a strong story element tied to it which makes everything feel connected or at least impactful. Of course WoW does this too to an extent, but I think the characters in FFXIV are more likable and the storylines have better structure to them.

I'd also say the writing is pretty solid, especially as the game goes on and the lore of the world is very interesting, but the above is what I'd consider the main strength of FFXIV's storytelling.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Funny thing, I always hear praising the game for it's story, but never have i heard someone argue why exactly is it so good. (the only thing i know i some deathwing ripoff guy)

Also, even if it is that good, I don't find it a good sign that this is the only good thing people can say about an mmo.

When it comes to long form storytelling in the gaming medium, you're only choice is either the Trails series or FFXIV.
@Poppincaps `comparison to One Piece is pretty apt.

• Massive, overarching storyline encompassing several arcs and plot points that just keep on coming back, punctuated by a lot of great payoffs that wouldn't be possible in a shorter, self contained game.

• Huge cast of characters who don't become irrelevant and forgotten after their introductory arc. You spend hundreds of hours with them and you get to really KNOW them, which isn't possible in a shorter, self contained game.

• Incredible worldbuilding that, again, wouldn't be possible in a shorter, self contained game.

FFXIV is a game that you don't want to rush through. It's a game that you want to stop and smell the roses, to soak in the experience. It's very much like the Trails series where you really want to go out of your way to do the optional stuff. It's a shame that so many players just ignore the sheer amount of NPC dialogue in the game, instead just pushing on straight to the next patch. After each patch, every major NPC's dialogue is updated. You really should take the time to go around and check up on Master Matoya, Aymeric, Hien, Unkalhai, and so on. The NPC Scions like Riol have entire character arcs and subplots going on that you will only know about if you talk to them as you go through the story. Really leveraging the power of the video game medium.

• Also, like the Trails series, FFXIV has a bloody fantastic soundtrack that is absolutely worth the price of admission. Almost every boss in the game has their own melodic theme, sometimes multiple themes for different phases. The composer, Masayoshi Soken, experiments with different styles, giving the game such a wide range of flavors.

The only real problem with FFXIV is the start. The first story arc, ARR, is pretty dry. The story begins to pick up around patch 2.3 and 3.0 Heavensward. DO NOT SKIP STRAIGHT TO HEAVENSWARD! If you do you will have skipped all of the setup and won't understand the world, the essential mechanics of the setting, who these people are, what the stakes are and why you should care. It's definitely a slow burn at the start but it's absolutely worth the payoff in the end!

Also, again, to reiterate. You REALLY, REALLY want to do the side stuff. It enhances the story so much more.

• Do the 2.0 ARR Main Story Questline (aka the MSQ)

• Do the Crystal Tower raid questline (takes about 2-3 hours)

• Do 2.1 through 2.55 MSQ

• Do 3.0 Heavensward MSQ

• Do the Warring Triad questline (takes about 2-3 hours)

• Do the Alexander questline (takes about 2-3 hours)

• Do 3.1-3.3 MSQ

• Go to Fortemps Manor and do the The Paths We Walk questline (takes about 1 hour)

• Do 3.4 through 3.56 MSQ

• Do 4.0 Stormblood MSQ

• Read the Tales from the Storm short stories.

• Do the Omega raid questline (takes about 2-3 hours)

• Do the Return to Ivalice questline (takes about 3-5 hours)

• Do 4.1 through 4.56 MSQ

• Do 5.0 Shadowbringers MSQ

• Read the Tales from the Shadows short stories

• Do the Eden raid questline (takes about 2-3 hours)

• If you are leveling up multiple jobs, try to get 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 melee DPS, and 1 caster to 80, and do all four role questlines. Then do the quest after.

• Do 5.1 through 5.3 MSQ

• You're caught up with saga thus far

The FFXIV saga will conclude in the next expansion, 6.0, coming next year. Ofcourse, FFXIV is profitable for Square, so there will be more FFXIV stuff after, but the saga began years ago will come to a close.

[Hyral]

Ofcourse, FFXIV is profitable for Square, so there will be more FFXIV stuff after, but the saga began years ago will come to a close.

I think that's a bit unfair to the story. The main arc is the main arc, sure, but throughout it's development other plot points have occurred that after all these years I believe they have enough substance to become future arcs. Primarily all the unanswered questions we have regarding Midgar's brood, his origins as well as Omega's, and who Ultima really is. All of these have one connecting thread that is they all come from another star. And finishing the current story arc wouldn't answer any of the open questions those side stories have brought up. The game still has more meat in it to keep it going before it becomes just a mindless cash cow and it was all developed in tandem with the main story arc, not as an afterthought.

[Orby]

Even as someone who doesn't like the game myself, Its far from the worst and I have tried a fair few MMO's over the last 15 years :P

FF for me is just not my cup of tea thats all. No matter how many times my girlfriend will tell me how good it is, if you have no dwarfs in a game with fantasy in the title then you are a failed fantasy :P

[prwraith]

FF14 is so mind numbingly slow. I've tried many times to play it but I never make it long

[Dazmalak]

Why does everyone feel the need to shit on things they don't like in public? Affirmation?