Possible big issue with Renown system "youtubers" arent realizing

[TheFirstOnes]

We can't all play at your level. Mind sharing some parses?

Yeah. Play the game?

I don't play much at all. Literally about 1-3 hours each day most of the time. Though, sometimes, I do skip playing for a couple of days, maybe even a week.

[Specialka]

Yeah. Play the game?

I don't play much at all. Literally about 1-3 hours each day most of the time. Though, sometimes, I do skip playing for a couple of days, maybe even a week.

If you are 461 ilvl now, you are not playing much so no big surprise you do not feel anything is a chore. But you want to push high key or mythic raiding, it is not the same deal. Hence we all can't play at your level.

[TheFirstOnes]

If you are 461 ilvl now, you are not playing much so no big surprise you do not feel anything is a chore. But you want to push high key or mythic raiding, it is not the same deal. Hence we all can't play at your level.

I mean, M+, I agree on. But, with Mythic raiding, a lot of it just has to do with Gulild progression, gaining certain Azerite traits and corruption gear, and doing visions. Getting your HoA to a certain point for Mythic raids isn't "impossible" to do at all, nor is that a chore, and I don't think everything else like that is a chore either. Otherwise, every game ever is considered "a chore".

[Thage]

Prior to... I wanna say WoD? as that saw a big uptick in people leveling multiple alts and having them strongly competitive with their mains... yeah, we'll go with WoD. Prior to Warlords of Draenor, it was pretty standard for anyone not playing on the bleeding edge of content progression to have alts that lagged behind their mains. Alts that stood toe to toe with one's main to make for easy switching only got big in WoD because there wasn't really a whole lot to do that was worth doing but work on alts outside raid night, due to the expansion's janky reward structure making dungeons obsolete within weeks and treasure hunts and mob grinds largely replacing dailies, with the reputations themselves rarely rewarding anything worth the effort unless you were a hardcore mount/tabard collector.

So far, Renown seems to work relatively as intended and as it should. If you put a little investment into maintaining your alts, you should be able to catch up rapidly despite the progression gap thanks to the catchup mechanic ramping up over time in the event you need to switch your main a patch or two down the road, or to replace a lost member, or just because you end up enjoying an alt more. And eventually, this mechanic will probably be retired mid-expansion like Artifact Knowledge was, both to help catchups and because the mechanic served its purpose.

[Zyky]

It doesn't "punish" you. You just aren't getting free stuff for leveling new characters. It also doesn't dictate how you spend your time, if you want to play alts you are free to do that, you just have to put in the same work as your main did.

Why should the game reward you for making a second character? It's your decision, don't expect everyone to bow and hand you things on a silver platter because of it.

You were never getting "free stuff", you still had to put work in to get everything. You still had to put work in to raid and be decent at the game. Except now the game punishes you forcing you to do stupid boring grinds(yes like world quests and AP grinds and essence grinds) that artificially increase your power rather than the game actually being based off of skill.

[Raisei]

You were never getting "free stuff", you still had to put work in to get everything. You still had to put work in to raid and be decent at the game. Except now the game punishes you forcing you to do stupid boring grinds(yes like world quests and AP grinds and essence grinds) that artificially increase your power rather than the game actually being based off of skill.

Well, all MMOs come with grind. WoW has had it for years, grinding gear, experience, reputation, special currencies. If this bothers you so much I don't know why you are still playing the game. These things won't change, so probably you should look for another game, something that requires little to no engagement, like Fortnite.

[plz delete account]

So I have watched a few youtube videos on the renown system, saying that the system is really cool and people shouldnt worry about because "reasons"
I saw one from Taliesen and Evitel and another one from SoulSoBreezy (guy makes nice news content, is a noob in general but really fun and enjoyable videos)

Anyway, these guys said some stuff that just misses the point tremenduously and I wanted to discuss it here with you guys, to see if you agree with me or not.

According to them, the system is ok because it has catchups from the 2nd week onwards, meaning you wont have to start the infinite grind from behind if youre late to the party or on your alts, nice right?

But thats not really the issue, is it? The issue really is having to keep up with your alts if you're someone who likes to play competitive or simply is an altoholic who likes to do some endgame content.
Sure you can only go up one level per week, and if youre behind youll progress much faster through the earlier grind levels, but that kind of creates a kind of devastating issue, doesnt it?
Let me explain really quick: Youre on the 19th week and you just leveled an alt, you do the long grind with catchups (yay) and get to level 19 quick, then you level another one and another one. Nice uh?
But then, the 20th week comes and youll have to do the 19->20 grind on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR GAZILLION ALTS, repetitive right? How about the 21st week? Well, that will happen again, another alt? Well now you have to do 13 weekly chores instead of 12, and that is the glaring issue.
To me that sounds just like having alts in 8.3 and having to do assaults+5masks on every single one of them at least once every week...

Right now "borrowed power" (anything that isnt tied to character talent build or progression, be it M+ gear, PvP gear or Raid gear) equals to about... what? 70% of a characters power? Corruptions+Essences+Azerite+Neck and so onwards, systems put up on top of systems that represent more than your character by itself and isnt tied to any progression, but rather to an obligatory (if you want to play content) mindless grind.

You're assuming the "infinite grind" is infinite, and not both capped weekly and has a max level of 40.

[crakerjack]

Idk what you've been smoking, but 8.3 inhibited alts way more than I could ever see 9.0 doing. Catchup mechanics in SL look like they'll be similar to class halls in legion. There will be catchup mechanics to drastically catchup alts and then you just maintain them. If you by chance you missed an alt and didn't maintain them for a couple weeks, no worries! The catchup mechanics will one again apply to that alt and you'll catch them up faster.

[Zyky]

Well, all MMOs come with grind. WoW has had it for years, grinding gear, experience, reputation, special currencies. If this bothers you so much I don't know why you are still playing the game. These things won't change, so probably you should look for another game, something that requires little to no engagement, like Fortnite.

Again, no MMO has ever punished you for playing the game. WoW is punishing players by forcing them to participate in content they have zero interest in. Where as, when the game was significantly more successful, if you wanted to do a raid on an alt all you had to do was have the adequate gear, you didn't have to do weeks/months of WQs or grinding garbage content that has nothing to do with raiding in order to be relevant or brought.

[Hinastorm]

Just another hardcore raider that has to keep multiple alts highend raid ready, trying to dictate game design for the rest of us.

Shuffle on.

[FelPlague]

The problem is that the currency needed to catch up the Back is the same you need it to buy Essences and Corrupted items, so you raise the Back resistance to use corrupted items that you are anable to buy it from Mother.

But at this point who cares anymore... in october the patch 9.0 will erase all of this.

or you can do the visions, which give you both corruptions, and also the stuff you need to buy for essences, AND the upgrades.

[themaster24]

If I'm reading Renown correctly, the max level we can get is 40 and not an unlimited grind like AP and AP nor an ever increasing corruption resistance past rank 15 like the cloak. So in a way Renown is like cloak rank 1 to 15 without the post 15+ CR gain.

For ranks 1-15, our mains were capped weekly but an alt can easily catch up to that week's rank cap as long as it can run enough horrific visions and get enough pages.

As long as that is still the case, then catching up isn't that much of an issue.

Also, only 14 of the 40 Renown levels are actual power rewards (Soulbind row unlocks). So it's not like every renown level is a power increase like the cloak, neck, or artifact weapons.

[kaminaris]

If I'm reading Renown correctly, the max level we can get is 40 and not an unlimited grind like AP and AP nor an ever increasing corruption resistance past rank 15 like the cloak. So in a way Renown is like cloak rank 1 to 15 without the post 15+ CR gain.

For ranks 1-15, our mains were capped weekly but an alt can easily catch up to that week's rank cap as long as it can run enough horrific visions and get enough pages.

As long as that is still the case, then catching up isn't that much of an issue.

It is going to be the same as AP was in BfA

At the start capped at X level
Then patch *.1 cap raised by Y level
*.2 again raise
*.3 unlimited

[Caerrona]

It is going to be the same as AP was in BfA

At the start capped at X level
Then patch *.1 cap raised by Y level
*.2 again raise
*.3 unlimited

Got a source for that?

From what I've seen so far its 40 levels. (That very well might change in the future though).

[catalystical]

It is going to be the same as AP was in BfA

At the start capped at X level
Then patch *.1 cap raised by Y level
*.2 again raise
*.3 unlimited

The Renown cap can keep going up each content patch as we get further into the story. The main thing is:

Renown Catch-up System
There are catch-up systems already in place for players who are behind, have switched Covenants, or are playing alts. These characters will be able to earn additional Renown through max level gameplay, Dungeons, Raids, PvP, and Callings (the new Emissary Quests), until they reach the current Renown cap.

As long as alts aren't capped weekly before reaching the current Renown cap and there are many ways instead of the single way right now with CR.

[kaminaris]

The Renown cap can keep going up each content patch as we get further into the story. The main thing is:

Renown Catch-up System
There are catch-up systems already in place for players who are behind, have switched Covenants, or are playing alts. These characters will be able to earn additional Renown through max level gameplay, Dungeons, Raids, PvP, and Callings (the new Emissary Quests), until they reach the current Renown cap.

As long as alts aren't capped weekly before reaching the current Renown cap and there are many ways instead of the single way right now with CR.

Its absolutely no different how AP worked in BfA because of artifact knowledge going up each week. Alts weren't weekly capped and each level behind was easy to make up for.

[LanToaster]

well this is my hope as well, my fear is simply that ill need to do "work" on my alts if I want to keep arenaing with them. I gave up on 8.3 after I got my achievements on my main(good thing glad mounts will now be account-wide, so I didnt miss anything), tried playing only 2 alts but even that was painful. having to log on every week on them, not to queue arenas but rather to do assaults and visions was quite the feelsbad.

Then dont do the "Chores" with "EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR GAZILLION ALTS". I dont see the Problem, what you see as problem, would be the problem with every progress system.

[Wuusah]

Its absolutely no different how AP worked in BfA because of artifact knowledge going up each week. Alts weren't weekly capped and each level behind was easy to make up for.

the difference is there is no excessive grind with Renown. With AP you could grind like a maniac to get a few extra levels on your artifact or HoA and unlock the next upgrade sooner than someone who didn't put up with the grind. For the casual player who didn't care about AP grinds nothing changes. For the mythic raider who wants each and every advantage they can get, this is a significant change.

[Nuba]

These guys posting here either dont see an issue if you play even just 2 or 3 characters and have to do, weekly, 2 hours of work per character in order to do the things that are really enjoyable, or they simply dont play live.
"oh but you have to do those arbitrary things to be able to play them, if you dont want to do them, dont play more than one character" kinda argument is stupid, this never existed before. Sure grinds exist, but they have an end point that you can do and be done with the entire patch and only care about the real progression, this randomly generated dumb grind was invented to "keep people playing more" but in reality it only made some people play more while it pushed a huge amount of people away from the game as a whole

[Steelcryo]

"If I make alts I have to play the game to power them up"

Well yeah, that's always been the case...

This is one of the easiest systems alts have had in a long time tbh