Possible big issue with Renown system "youtubers" arent realizing

[kaminaris]

the difference is there is no excessive grind with Renown. With AP you could grind like a maniac to get a few extra levels on your artifact or HoA and unlock the next upgrade sooner than someone who didn't put up with the grind. For the casual player who didn't care about AP grinds nothing changes. For the mythic raider who wants each and every advantage they can get, this is a significant change.

Not sure if you remember but AP was hardcapped until last patch. So there was no excessive grind either.
And you are pretty wrong that it doesn't affect mythic radiers as they will (at least from like top50) grind their asses in first weeks.

[Nuba]

"If I make alts I have to play the game to power them up"

Well yeah, that's always been the case...

This is one of the easiest systems alts have had in a long time tbh

theres a difference between grinding something with a clear end to grinding something that youre forced to REGRIND every week.
having to hop through characters every week REGRINDING something has never existed in the game prior to legion.

Theoretically this is simply another kind of infinite AP grind, for some reason you think infinite AP grind has always existed in the game - it hasnt. The games been worst because of it ever since it was introduced

"Oh but its less painful in shadowlands" - making it less painful doesnt make it good

[Wuusah]

Not sure if you remember but AP was hardcapped until last patch. So there was no excessive grind either.
And you are pretty wrong that it doesn't affect mythic radiers as they will (at least from like top50) grind their asses in first weeks.

I'm not sure if you remember but at the start of BfA that hardcap didn't exist or wasn't realistically reachable and a high difficulty raid azerite item had a very high level requirement to get all traits. Progress raiders were pretty much punished for playing mythic difficulty because mythic difficulty items needed a higher HoA level, which meant progress raiders had to grind AP. If you want to compare systems then compare systems in the same timeframe. Compare Renown of SL release with AP of Legion/BfA release.

Also, you literally cannot grind Renown. It's like corruption resistance. You do some small task per week and that's it.

[crusadernero]

Looks more and more like i'll level my main and only play that character. Just unsub once im "done" with him until next patch.

[Nuba]

I'm not sure if you remember but at the start of BfA that hardcap didn't exist or wasn't realistically reachable and a high difficulty raid azerite item had a very high level requirement to get all traits. Progress raiders were pretty much punished for playing mythic difficulty because mythic difficulty items needed a higher HoA level, which meant progress raiders had to grind AP. If you want to compare systems then compare systems in the same timeframe. Compare Renown of SL release with AP of Legion/BfA release.

Also, you literally cannot grind Renown. It's like corruption resistance. You do some small task per week and that's it.

they only put a "ceiling" to the infinite grind so diehard fanboys of the brand would have ammunition to defend the system against real criticism
like... you can be a fan of a brand (although stupid, its acceptable) but defending it like people here who dont even play the game is crazy.

people on these forums defend blizzard far more than people on official forums, even though they play wow a lot less than the dudes at the official forums

Edit: just realized something, people defending the current systems have mostly started playing during legion, or at least joined mmochamp around that time

[LanToaster]

He mentions 2 alts, and you go on a hyperbole WUUUUHHHH GAZILLION ALTS!!! you dont have to defend every thing wrong with the game dude.

I put that in Quotes because he said literally that in the first Posting.
Honestly, if you feel putting 3 Times like 30 Minutes work each week as "Painfull Chore", you should maybe find a different game to play.

Not to mention, that you dont have to do anything to play the game.
And if you expect "EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR GAZILLION ALTS" to be Top Notch, you have to put in the work for it.

It was never Easier to have decent Alts than now.

These guys posting here either dont see an issue if you play even just 2 or 3 characters and have to do, weekly, 2 hours of work per character in order to do the things that are really enjoyable, or they simply dont play live.

I did the Invasions weekly with all Characters I played until I had my Cloak on 15.

You dont have to do anything to play the game. Every "Chore" you think you "Have" to do. Is just because you think you do.

Sure grinds exist, but they have an end point that you can do and be done with the entire patch and only care about the real progression

Oo What "Real Progression" do you get from your weekly Chores you have to do?

Or rather: What do you get from the chores that you so painfully need that you have to slave away with every character that you might want to play?

having to hop through characters every week REGRINDING something has never existed in the game prior to legion.

Never grinded any kind of AP, or anything in the game, and I still have fun. Why is that?


It was never Easier to have decent Alts than now.

[Wuusah]

they only put a "ceiling" to the infinite grind so diehard fanboys of the brand would have ammunition to defend the system against real criticism
like... you can be a fan of a brand (although stupid, its acceptable) but defending it like people here who dont even play the game is crazy.

people on these forums defend blizzard far more than people on official forums, even though they play wow a lot less than the dudes at the official forums

Edit: just realized something, people defending the current systems have mostly started playing during legion, or at least joined mmochamp around that time

People defending the system just don't have a problem with putting in a tiny bit of effort into your char every week. Blizzard quite literally went way overboard with being alt-unfriendly in BfA. But Shadowlands does look differently. You can keep an alt up to date with minimal effort per week. But you need to put in weekly effort. You cannot play like you did back in the days where you played an alt for a week and geared him up and he was good enough to come back to once every other week if you feel like playing that alt. That's just not how this game is anymore. Learn to deal with it and stop whining.

I honestly don't see much defending of Blizzard on this forum. Most people are shitting on Blizzard left and right. What you seem to not get is that people are fine with putting in weekly minimal effort into your char to keep him up to date because unlike you most people aren't playing a dozen chars at once. Nobody here cares about your niche problem.

[Cuddleheart]

I agree! I also think it's unfair that I have to put in time and work to get loot every time a new raid comes out! First off Blizznerd, I already beat Naxxaramus raid back in 2009, it's WILDLY unfair that I have to, ugh, do stuff AGAIN if I want other raid gear. It's a massive chore to have to leave Stormwind trade chat and have to do stuff if I want my character to be competitive. >.<

Please mail me all the items for all the raids once I finish one of them. How can you not see this obvious solution!

Just wanted to see if you guys agree (spoiler, if you don't you're wrong anyways)

[LanToaster]

Edit: just realized something, people defending the current systems have mostly started playing during legion, or at least joined mmochamp around that time

Or, they see that there is no real benefit to grinding the living shit, just becaus you can.
You can say Azerite Essences are a Pain for Alts, but thats a thing you do once, and be done with it. Everything else, honestly is Optional.

Unless you want to play Top Tier, you dont need top tier corruptions, or azerite level 100.

[Specialka]

Or, they see that there is no real benefit to grinding the living shit, just becaus you can.
You can say Azerite Essences are a Pain for Alts, but thats a thing you do once, and be done with it. Everything else, honestly is Optional.

Unless you want to play Top Tier, you dont need top tier corruptions, or azerite level 100.

Sorry, we do not do only LFR and mm0 like certain people.

[kaminaris]

they only put a "ceiling" to the infinite grind so diehard fanboys of the brand would have ammunition to defend the system against real criticism
like... you can be a fan of a brand (although stupid, its acceptable) but defending it like people here who dont even play the game is crazy.

people on these forums defend blizzard far more than people on official forums, even though they play wow a lot less than the dudes at the official forums

Edit: just realized something, people defending the current systems have mostly started playing during legion, or at least joined mmochamp around that time

Real critisism? Dude, you have OCD, go to doctor. It's not criticism, you literally have issues with yourself.

First cutting edge in MoP - that was shit to get alts up to any relevant level, you have a memory of a goldfish.

[Trend]

they only put a "ceiling" to the infinite grind so diehard fanboys of the brand would have ammunition to defend the system against real criticism
like... you can be a fan of a brand (although stupid, its acceptable) but defending it like people here who dont even play the game is crazy.

Not sure if you can read what you're writing. A ceiling means it is not infinite. You cannot have something that is infinite that isn't infinite (has a ceiling) at the same time.

SL could very well suck for alts. We really don't have enough to go on to know one way or another. However, regardless of the fact that it might suck, your reasoning for why it will suck is uninformed and poor. You brought up Taliesin yourself. Do you understand why he was specifically making fun of people who are bitching and moaning that this is an infinite grind?

Edit: just realized something, people defending the current systems have mostly started playing during legion, or at least joined mmochamp around that time

That means nothing. MMO-C wasn't a major place of discussion until fairly recently. Things come and go. I've been playing since the beginning of closed beta in 2004 and I just created a MMO-C account a few years ago. Imagine that. Cute way to try to dismiss opinions that do not fit in your echo chamber though.

[Elias01]

theres a difference between grinding something with a clear end to grinding something that youre forced to REGRIND every week.
having to hop through characters every week REGRINDING something has never existed in the game prior to legion.

Theoretically this is simply another kind of infinite AP grind, for some reason you think infinite AP grind has always existed in the game - it hasnt. The games been worst because of it ever since it was introduced

"Oh but its less painful in shadowlands" - making it less painful doesnt make it good

M i supostu remind you what happen last time when game was literaly about nothing but getting gear so you had no other stuff to worrie about and you could raid log? 50% of playerbasse has quit playing game. Yes i am talking about WoD. This type of progression exists becouse majority of players is not interested in any sort of raiding or running mythic+ so they have atlest some way to still progress their characters.

WoW have highest engament in decade and in Legion and BFA game never felt like you have nothing to do like it was in previous expansions.

[LanToaster]

Sorry, we do not do only LFR and mm0 like certain people.

There is quite a Large gap between LFR and Top Tier. Its sad that you only manage to do LFR with decent stuff.

That depends a lot on what your definition of a "decent alt" is.
I doubt we share the same definition judging what you've said so far in this thread.

Then Enlighten me, what would you expect a Decent Alt to do, or have?
(In Comparison to your MainChar Obviously)

[huth]

But then, the 20th week comes and youll have to do the 19->20 grind on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR GAZILLION ALTS, repetitive right?

And that's where it falls apart, because the two regular renown levels aren't really what one would call a grind. One of them is basically going to your Covenant place and turning a quest in, once a week.

[Specialka]

There is quite a Large gap between LFR and Top Tier. Its sad that you only manage to do LFR with decent stuff.



Then Enlighten me, what would you expect a Decent Alt to do, or have?
(In Comparison to your MainChar Obviously)

It seems that to you, a decent alt should be able to clear LFR, and listening to you, you would need 470 ilvl to do so. Sad.

[Kendros]

Then dont have a million alts and keeep only the ammount of alts you can deal with. If you dont have the time, if you dont want to keep grinding, dont have alts. Simple solution.

Game is turning into everything being handded out because ppl keep bitching about wanting free stuff for their alts.

[Elias01]

Alts used be nothing but gathereres what runned dungeon content max and thats where alts should stay. This nonse of owning 10+ fully mythic geared characters has no place in wow. This isnt moba where you swap chars on the fly and do w/e. Mmorpgs are about long term ivestment and progression.

[schwarzkopf]

The opposite to power grinds is power time gating.

We have to pick one and then whinge about it being wrong.

For me AP was never a problem - because I never had to grind it.
Renown also won't be a problem - because I won't have to grind it.

However with AP and with renown, I'm sure there are creative people out there that will make it as hard as possible on themselves.

[kamuimac]

So I have watched a few youtube videos on the renown system, saying that the system is really cool and people shouldnt worry about because "reasons"
I saw one from Taliesen and Evitel and another one from SoulSoBreezy (guy makes nice news content, is a noob in general but really fun and enjoyable videos)

Anyway, these guys said some stuff that just misses the point tremenduously and I wanted to discuss it here with you guys, to see if you agree with me or not.

According to them, the system is ok because it has catchups from the 2nd week onwards, meaning you wont have to start the infinite grind from behind if youre late to the party or on your alts, nice right?

But thats not really the issue, is it? The issue really is having to keep up with your alts if you're someone who likes to play competitive or simply is an altoholic who likes to do some endgame content.
Sure you can only go up one level per week, and if youre behind youll progress much faster through the earlier grind levels, but that kind of creates a kind of devastating issue, doesnt it?
Let me explain really quick: Youre on the 19th week and you just leveled an alt, you do the long grind with catchups (yay) and get to level 19 quick, then you level another one and another one. Nice uh?
But then, the 20th week comes and youll have to do the 19->20 grind on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR GAZILLION ALTS, repetitive right? How about the 21st week? Well, that will happen again, another alt? Well now you have to do 13 weekly chores instead of 12, and that is the glaring issue.
To me that sounds just like having alts in 8.3 and having to do assaults+5masks on every single one of them at least once every week...

Right now "borrowed power" (anything that isnt tied to character talent build or progression, be it M+ gear, PvP gear or Raid gear) equals to about... what? 70% of a characters power? Corruptions+Essences+Azerite+Neck and so onwards, systems put up on top of systems that represent more than your character by itself and isnt tied to any progression, but rather to an obligatory (if you want to play content) mindless grind.

seems to me like you are playing the wrong genre like many other people

wow is mmorpg

you want alts ? put work into them

or go play something else