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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxx79 View Post
    Are you some sort of sociopath who delights in punishing people?
    Nice attempt at a genuine conversation. Jesus.
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post

    death penalties for repeated offenders would be cheaper and mean that those $$$$ could co towards other social goals instead being wasted on criminals.
    I fucking knew that someone would seriously call for a death penalty on this. It was only a matter of time.
    Dude, curb your sociopathy.
    P.S.
    It also is not cheap.
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    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  3. #243
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    death penalties for repeated offenders would be cheaper and mean that those $$$$ could co towards other social goals instead being wasted on criminals.
    Wrong. Death penalty is much, much more expensive than keeping them locked up for life.

    Not even going to touch the rest of your vitriol. Ugh.
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    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post

    I ain't coming here claiming to have answers, because I don't. But I am coming here to say that the current system continues to fail and we need to look into a way to make it work.
    Fair enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Criminal justice fixes
    Remove mandatory minimum sentences, these are a borderline unlawful impingement on the freedom of the judiciary and are proven to do nothing but exponentially (in the order of 300 to 500% depending on the country) inflate prison population numbers (almost like that's the point).

    Remove "three-strike" laws, see above but also the whole point of sentencing discretion is a judge can impose a harsher sentence for repeat offenders. This should not be the legislative body's job

    Stop inflaming the public with pointless tough on crime rhetoric for easy votes, it does nothing but massively inflate sentences and the actual number of offences on the books.

    Slash bail amounts for petty nonviolent crimes (isn't there some amendment against that?). Be honest, what reasonable hope does even a middle-class person have of getting access to $25k liquid capital outside of business hours?

    Decriminalise small quantity drug possession offences. All these do is serve to give young people records to perpetuate cycles of poverty and clog up the court system with pointless cases.

    Abolish for-profit prisons so the state is not incentivised to rely on tough on crime rhetoric and isn't giving companies more money then it would cost to do it on their own.

    Hugely lower sentence guidelines for non-violent petty crimes, I'm talking sentences in the month range not lowering the number of years. Based on recidivism rates prison alone is proven not to be an effective crime deterrent ergo it's a waste of everyone's time and money from the offender to the state.

    Seal non-violent/non-sexual criminal records, a huge problem with recidivism is once someone has a record they can't even get a job if they try which means the only option is crime.

    Stop criminalising mental health issues

    General social fixes
    Socialise Helathcare
    Subsidise Education (and stop basing it on surrounding property taxes ensuring poor children get poor schools like seriously what the fuck is wrong with the US)
    Provide social safety nets
    Stop being systemically racist leading to young people and minorities being needlessly involved in the criminal justice system.


    Seriously the idea that no one knows what the problem is and there is nothing to be done is a myth. The US criminal justice system exists as a means to win votes and support the for-profit prison system.
    I can agree with a few points here. De-criminalization of mental health issues and the impact of that is an interesting one that probably deserves its own thread.

  5. #245
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Wrong. Death penalty is much, much more expensive than keeping them locked up for life.
    It's very cheap if you don't mind killing innocent people.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Volatilis View Post
    Nice attempt at a genuine conversation. Jesus.
    What 'genuine conversation' is there to be had?

    Every single piece of data that exists on earth shows that higher sentences, MMS, three strike laws and the exponential rise in technical parole violations have minimal impact on recidivism or crime rate. The only thing they are directly tied to is the 500% increase in prisoner population in the US which just randomly happens to coincide with the rise of the for profit prison system.

    It's almost like those laws don't protect the public (because they don't) and they're intentionally designed to damage the public to line the pockets of corporations at the expense of the state (they are).
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    What 'genuine conversation' is there to be had?

    Every single piece of data that exists on earth shows that higher sentences, MMS, three strike laws and the exponential rise in technical parole violations have minimal impact on recidivism or crime rate. The only thing they are directly tied to is the 500% increase in prisoner population in the US which just randomly happens to coincide with the rise of the for profit prison system.

    It's almost like those laws don't protect the public (because they don't) and they're intentionally designed to damage the public to line the pockets of corporations at the expense of the state (they are).
    dont know how you but i feel safer knowing criminals are locked behind bars.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    dont know how you but i feel safer knowing criminals are locked behind bars.
    Nobody is arguing that people convicted of crimes shouldn't face punishment, my dude. I don't know why people keep appearing to think this.

    Just that life in prison for attempted theft of hedge trimmers, even with his largely non-violent prior offenses, ain't a benefit to society, especially financially.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    dont know how you but i feel safer knowing criminals are locked behind bars.
    What's that thing right-wing pundits like to spew? Oh that's it, facts don't care about your feelings.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  10. #250
    I am Murloc! Noxx79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volatilis View Post
    Nice attempt at a genuine conversation. Jesus.
    Nice “argument”. Care to explain why excessive punishment isn’t sociopathy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    Sentenced to life for a life of crime. The cost is huge, but the solution is not to release him; we should reduce the cost of keeping people locked up. I'm shocked it costs that much to keep criminals locked up.
    Yeah human rights are expensive, especially when you’re getting gouged by immoral legalized slave owners.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    how many things went unnoticed in his criminal career? we're not allowed to deport him or send him to a penal colony anymore, he isn't fit to live with the rest of society.
    I prefer a society where you are innocent until proven guilty. What evidence do you have of these unnoticed crimes?

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    Well slave owners are there in China now with millions forced to free labor and no one is giving a shit.
    I think you're conflating you not giving a shit with nobody else giving a shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    On topic, we can build jails in cheap countries and ship the criminals there to serve their time.
    What countries will take our criminals? What if nobody wants to? How are we going to negotiate these contracts? How will we ensure that the prisoners Constitutional Rights are protected?

    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    Save tax payer money ... we can even build better quality prisons with better facilities, food and healthcare. It would be a win-win.
    Not all of us live in the world of pure imagination.

  13. #253
    I am Murloc! Noxx79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    Well slave owners are there in China now with millions forced to free labor and no one is giving a shit. On topic, we can build jails in cheap countries and ship the criminals there to serve their time. Save tax payer money ... we can even build better quality prisons with better facilities, food and healthcare. It would be a win-win.
    Buh buh CHINA...


    So you want to deport criminals. Which criminals? Which countries are you going to exile yourself to because you want to inflict harsh punishment in direct violation of the bill of rights?

    Sounds like you’re a criminal in waiting and we should take care of you before it gets dangerous.

    Wtf is wrong with you?

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    dont know how you but i feel safer knowing criminals are locked behind bars.
    And no one is arguing that criminals shouldn't be sent to prison. Take your strawman and leave.

    Life in punishment for petty theft is excessive.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    People just don't care about prisoners and their quality of life.
    Again, you don't care about prisoners and are projecting that belief on everyone else.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxx79 View Post
    Nice “argument”. Care to explain why excessive punishment isn’t sociopathy?
    Because believe it or not but having an opinion on a tricky subject matter doesnt in fact make you a sociopath.

    Also you are thinking of a psychopath not a sociopath. Sociopaths suffer from anti social behavior not violent thoughts.
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I don't even know where to start with the fucking depth of idiocy you just spouted there.

    You do understand that the times when those punishments were common practice were WILDY and SAVAGELY violent. Curbing those practices went hand in hand with curbing crime and violence. We stopped doing that shit because people realized that the societal consequences were so severe that they made the problems they were meant to address significantly worse.

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    With the exception of the armed robbery the other ones are non violent, failed and even outright simply just petty...."attempted forgery of a check worth $150"....like for real.
    forgery is a felony, everywhere in the USA.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    forgery is a felony, everywhere in the USA.
    A non-violent felony. And?

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    A non-violent felony. And?
    its not a petty crime.

  20. #260
    There seems to be an inference that simply imprisonment for any crime is wrong and jail cells should be gotten rid of.

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