Most classes feel the same

[Greendog]

Can someone give me a quick briefing on whats good and bad about Shadowlands? I usually come back for a bit with each new xpac. Is this worth getting or not?

[Stardrift]

As always, whining thread about classes with zero details. Keep that good feedback.

People have been providing constructed feedback for years and Blizz still refuses to do anything but continue to homogenize them.

I don't blame anyone for bitching and whining at this point. The gameplay and combat is shit poor and stale. No class feels like a class anymore. Specs don't even feel like specializations. Just different colours and numbers.

[Gaidax]

Can someone give me a quick briefing on whats good and bad about Shadowlands? I usually come back for a bit with each new xpac. Is this worth getting or not?

It's another WoW expansion for the better and for the worse. There will be kickass raids, good dungeons, good areas, weak PvP and odd systems.

The real new thing is Torghast which is a huge endless tower with procedurally generated floors you accend and do activities in to progress.

Nobody knows how that will play out, it could be awesome or it could be another good for half a dozen first times and then just weekly annoyance thing.

[docterfreeze]

The game also kept on losing subs all through MOP which was the peak of how broad, complex, and varied class design was.

Actually MoP was the last time (that we know of) where subs went up mid-expansion. The first and possibly only time that has happened since the decline that started in cata.



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Also, MoP didn't have CRZ, it didn't need it to populate the zones

CRZ was introduced in MoP. Wasn't in pandaria zones if that's what you mean.

[Schmilblick]

Can someone give me a quick briefing on whats good and bad about Shadowlands? I usually come back for a bit with each new xpac. Is this worth getting or not?

Well you can either wait for a few patches after launch to get a good idea of what is happening in SL or do like most of us :

- Play the first 2 months
- Realize how bad it is
- Unsub and wait for few patches

[Argorwal]

Actually MoP was the last time (that we know of) where subs went up mid-expansion. The first and possibly only time that has happened since the decline that started in cata.



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CRZ was introduced in MoP. Wasn't in pandaria zones if that's what you mean.

That graph pretty clearly shows subs going down across MoP lol.

There is 1 quarter where it went up very marginally, and right back down. And ended way below where it started.

[Nyhtt]

Other that some few changes here and there and adding back some (mostly) useless abilities, the specs feel the same, it's like BFA but with a new expansion name and that's it, damn, it's so depressing.

EDIT : i think i spelled it wrong, by "same" I meant same as BFA, the same boring gameplay and playstyle in BFA, not same classes with same abilities.

You need to remember your not seeing the finished class with covenant ability or soulbinds or legendaries. On top of that it depends on the class
For example aff lock is a lot different but destro is mostly the same but the necrolord ability adds some cool game play and different builds for locks mostly destro.

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People have been providing constructed feedback for years and Blizz still refuses to do anything but continue to homogenize them.

I don't blame anyone for bitching and whining at this point. The gameplay and combat is shit poor and stale. No class feels like a class anymore. Specs don't even feel like specializations. Just different colours and numbers.

I don’t understand this, I have played this game Since 2 weeks after launch and the biggest change I noticed is WeakAura and other addons like it. automating class gameplay and boss mechanics that should be fun and interesting being boring because you can make a weakaura to do it for you.

If you dint think a destro, demo, and affliction lock or Frost, Unholy and blood DK feels like different specs then idk what to tell you, sounds like burnout to me.

[Haywire5714]

That graph pretty clearly shows subs going down across MoP lol.

There is 1 quarter where it went up very marginally, and right back down. And ended way below where it started.

Gameplay was pretty much the only good thing about MoP, the other aspects of the expansion is why the subs fell. Dailies at the beginning were awful, the raids weren't spectacular (except ToT), Heroic dungeons were an abomination, challenge modes were meh (the world record times were sick tho), the leveling was an abomination, the theme was an abomination, the legendaries were boring ... pretty much everything about that expansion was awful except for the really solid gameplay (not perfect mind you).

The gameplay alone made for solid pvp and pve despite the actual content and the rest of the systems being awful or mediocre, that's why MoP lost subs. The gameplay was literally the saving grace for the expansion.

[dexx]

Do you really think that another Legion style shake-up is what we need? Cause the last one was disastrous as it is. They need to build up now, not destroy.

Blizz has had SO MUCH feedback on various class weaknesses. Many of those weaknesses have been introduced since Legion. it would be a simple matter to actually listen to the player base and implement changes. Balance can be maintained via numbers tuning. But Blizzard knows best it seems.

[Swnem]

If you want good class design, you are playing the wrong game. The whole thing got nuked with Legion. About a decade of refinement thrown out the window.

I recommend you try SWTOR. I love the class design on that game. Every spec feels unique.
Heck even though they mirror classes on each faction, they all get different animations that make them feel unique.

[Kalisandra]

Bfa prot paladin is fantastic
Bfa brm and mw monk are fantadtic
Bfa affliction lock is fantatic
Bfa disc priest is fantastuc
Bfa mm and bm hunter is fantastic
Bfa feral druid is fantastic
Bfa mage is fantastic
I am not talking numbers. I am talking game play. They all play really well.

Just because a few shit players can not play the specs correctly does not mean the spec is bad. It means you the player is bad.

The BfA Affliction, Prot Pally, BM Hunter, Arcane Mage are all pale reflections of their Legion versions. If you think they play well, I can only conclude you are new to the game.

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The game also kept on losing subs all through MOP which was the peak of how broad, complex, and varied class design was.

No it didn't.

[Schmilblick]

If you want good class design, you are playing the wrong game. The whole thing got nuked with Legion. About a decade of refinement thrown out the window.

Yes the moment they started putting and gating abilities on items in a crappy borrowed system, the game started to go down the hill.

I recommend you try SWTOR. I love the class design on that game. Every spec feels unique.
Heck even though they mirror classes on each faction, they all get different animations that make them feel unique.

Nah I don't have the time to start playing a new mmo and I don't like that game. Btw, isn't that game dead ?

[Gaidax]

Nah I don't have the time to start playing a new mmo and I don't like that game. Btw, isn't that game dead ?

It's semi-dead, I resubbed like 2 months ago and it's business as usual - good Single Player experience, crappy MMO.

There are people around for sure, but mostly stale simply because they update it like once per year or some such.

[Doffen]

Going through the class abilities we got back now in SL and we don't really have a good use for many of them. A button bloat is not always a good thing, and it's kinda like I feared when we first heard of it. Tossing something in there just to give players more buttons isn't necessarily great. Saying that, it seems they worked on the actual rotations for some specs too so a few specs do feel better to play already. But that they added so many old things that is niche at best is not gonna do much for rotations which is most important to me, synergy and pace.

[Saltysquidoon]

But that they added so many old things that is niche at best is not gonna do much for rotations which is most important to me, synergy and pace.

The unpruning is pr smoke and mirrors to cover up that no matter how solid the SL experience is there are almost no 'new' features to drag in the casual one and done box sales, so they decided to do some low effort nostalgia bait.

Most unpruned spells were never intended to be used frequently and some aren't intended to be used at all at max level. The problem with unpruning spells isn't they did it necessarily (having spells you don't use is fine) it's that they're trying to sell it as a feature of the expansion on par with torghast.

[Jamie081]

Bfa prot paladin is fantastic
Bfa brm and mw monk are fantadtic
Bfa affliction lock is fantatic
Bfa disc priest is fantastuc
Bfa mm and bm hunter is fantastic
Bfa feral druid is fantastic
Bfa mage is fantastic
I am not talking numbers. I am talking game play. They all play really well.

Just because a few shit players can not play the specs correctly does not mean the spec is bad. It means you the player is bad.

You lost me right at the start. MW Monk plays like a braindead green holy priest. It has an awful mastery that doesn't interact with the majority of the spec's spells and is nowhere near the height of its gameplay that it had in MoP and WoD. Stop chatting shit.

Anyone saying MW plays well is probably a terrible player honestly.

[Doffen]

The unpruning is pr smoke and mirrors to cover up that no matter how solid the SL experience is there are almost no 'new' features to drag in the casual one and done box sales, so they decided to do some low effort nostalgia bait.

Most unpruned spells were never intended to be used frequently and some aren't intended to be used at all at max level. The problem with unpruning spells isn't they did it necessarily (having spells you don't use is fine) it's that they're trying to sell it as a feature of the expansion on par with torghast.

Yeah, it feels like it as well. Did try a few classes on PTR and I tried to use some of the class wide ones and it feels kinda wasted. I am sure there are some that got uses of them into rotations, but many of the specs I tried some abilities is just staying in the spellbook. And like you say, I got no problem with that. I do hope blizzard don't see it as a major fix though. I guess the extra abilities from Covenants could do some good. I don't dislike rental power if it makes sense. But same logic applies there as well, if it makes stuff flow well, then it's good.

Example of what I like is the ress pet for DK's so I can use it as Frost and there are a few good utility ones. Death and Decay is nice too, so those cases are good. Flavor is nice, but when fixing classes, adding buttons isn't the most important part, at all.

[Swnem]

Yes the moment they started putting and gating abilities on items in a crappy borrowed system, the game started to go down the hill.



Nah I don't have the time to start playing a new mmo and I don't like that game. Btw, isn't that game dead ?

What is your definition of a dead game? I would think that after 9 years we could safely say it's not dead. It just released on Steam too.
Hey, it was my recommendation. It's a really fun game. It just doesnt have content support in the same level as a wow/teso/ff.

But, it's mostly F2P, and a good side dish to WoW, per se.

[Lolites]

That graph pretty clearly shows subs going down across MoP lol.

There is 1 quarter where it went up very marginally, and right back down. And ended way below where it started.

its funny how someone posts a graph like it didnt go completely against what he was saying...
and how WOD when classes were like only good thing people didnt even mention, despite having BIGGEST sub drop ever but sure, class design is why people left wow

[Accendor]

I don't know what you mean. Classes shouldn't feel completely different when a new expansion hits.
It felt bad when we actually lost abilities and interactions when we went from Legion to BFA, but this time around i think there's plenty of new spice in the core gameplay of speccs that make it fresh.


Transition Legion -> BFA
Lost:
- T-Set Bonusses
- Legiondaries
- Artifactability and a ton of passives tied to it

Gained:
- Azeritepowers

Transition BFA -> Shadowlands
Lost:
- Azeritepowers
- Azeriteessence
Gained:
2 active Covenantabilites
Soulbind-Passives
Conduit-Passives
Legendaries

Certain Speccs did get new abilities and interactions

Dunno, it really depends on what you play. Gameplay wise (ignoring numbers) DH for example got worse yet again