How do you control a Toxic Community like World of Warcraft or most other MMOs have?

[arkanon]

I just blocked you. What did you do next?

I am not aware you blocked me, so my behavior has not changed at all. You have removed yourself from the equation, but you have not solved it at all.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

There are no such talents in the game from what I've seen. The tooltips don't state how much DPS you lose or gain. In most cases it's even difficult to look at two talents and know which is the best.

Correct. Some sites will tell you that some will overall be a certain % stronger but none are near 20%.

youre a .... na i wont get myself baned cuz of a bunch of casuals, just log in to your mage play fire without rune of power it will be more than 20% or balance druid without streaking stars 35% of your overal dps.
This was my last take on you paradox buddys i wont discus numbers with some one who has zero clue about this game take it from some one whos playing in a top 30 guild and knows his shit or just sim it if you dont belive me like, as some one already said here teaching badys how to play or read number is a waste of O2

This is just another example of people acting toxic to others because they don't play the game the way some guide has told them. I bet you don't even sim and just blindly follow whatever guide you have been told is a good one. You don't know that a talent is better until you sim it yourself everytime you get a new piece and there are still scenarios where that better dps isn't actually better dps. Stop being so toxic.

i paly @ the top for 13 years (top 20-30 in WOD-BFA) i do TC and im a Member of my class discords TC and Beta Tester dont talk about ppl you dont know mr casual

[Azharok]

There are no such talents in the game from what I've seen. The tooltips don't state how much DPS you lose or gain. In most cases it's even difficult to look at two talents and know which is the best.

You must not play all that much or care all that much. That's fine, but it doesn't invalidate his statement, which is true. Picking ONE wrong talent equates roughly a 18% decrease in overall DPS for me.

[Advent]

This actually brings up a really good question, and I don't have an answer for you. The nearest thing I can guess is the whole "monkey see monkey do" thing where people see the so-called "high" level people doing all this meta chasing, min-maxing and gatekeeping so feel it's the only way to do things, so even at your middle tier levels you have people who are imitating the higher levels out of ignorance and just trying to copy them. I mean this is apparent in retail WoW where you have people treating an M+7 like it was a M+17 with all the associated meta/gatekeeping "no scrubs allowed" mindset.

It's actually interesting because now that you mention it in every other game where there exists that sort of min/maxing "follow the meta" stuff, it's the same sort of thing that happens. The minority (the ultra min/maxing meta chasers) have a stranglehold on the rest of the game, even though logic dictates that they shouldn't because if enough people feel it's wrong there should surely be more people who will do the opposite and turn the tables so it's the min-maxers who are the pariahs, not the other way around.

I am reasonably certain though the reason the min-max types have no trouble finding others is because they instinctively look for like-minded people. If you want to push the content limits and yourself, you seek out others who want the same thing. So you form your own society, as it were, where that's the norm and tend to easily find others. While the greater population is more varied, with different likes and wants and dislikes, so they are much more unorganized. If I had to guess I'd say that might be a factor in it. You have a disorganized mob (the "majority") and then a much smaller but organized group (the min-max/gatekeeping/etc.). So of course the more organized is going to have less issues organizing, they already have their whole criteria and what they look for in others.

And yet, in every medium, it usually turns out the other way. And honestly I can't think of a valid reason why that would be the case. Everything indicates that the opposite should happen.

This is actually a really good post and makes a lot of sense. You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

- - - Updated - - -

WoW has lobby based competitive PvP so you're objectively wrong in the first place and I addressed the differences in my post.

Your second argument makes no sense because even in the holy land of vanilla/classic people primarily interact with their guild. Guildies have a social incentive not to be dicks to you and can and will help out newer and less capable members because it benefits them not to have bad players around. By contrast, if you are going to (especially exclusively) PUG or use a lobby such as LFD or LFR expect people not to put up with your shit? They aren't there to make friends they're there for exp and gear if you make yourself an obstacle to that through a lack of knowledge or incompetence don't expect a warm reception.

That is nothing to do with 'toxicity' and everything to do with how humans work socially. If I went up to people in a restaurant and just threw spaghetti on the table and demand those people teach me to eat no one is going to call those people toxic for telling me to piss off and getting the staff to throw me out.

Actually, it's more like there's 5 people all wanting to see who can eat 5 hot dogs in 5 minutes, but people start screaming at the one guy who's decided to eat his five at one hot dog per minute. You'll all finish, but people are upset that he didn't scarf them all down in the first minute like they did.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

They are playing the game the way they enjoy. Thats it - i honestly think you have some serious growing up to do if you think you have some given right to control how others play. If you want to form a group, and make one of the requirements that you get to tell each member exactly what items to equip, exactly what talents to use, and exactly what essences etc they must use, more power to you - im sure you group will be hugely successful and you will be SWAMPED with applicants.

What you are presenting as "trolling" and "being bad on purpose" is wildly inaccurate and to be honest, extremely pathetic. Its a game - its people playing the game with the talents they enjoy, nothing more, nothing less.

You are constantly misrepresenting their thought process when making this choice - your claim is that individuals look at the talents and say "right, this one will let me to 50 dps, and this one will let me do 60 dps - based PURELY on those factors, im taking the 50 dps one!" which is absolutely ridiculous and entirely disingenuous of you to say. What people are actually doing, is saying "this one will do 50 dps, and this one will do 60 dps. Shame i really hate the 60 dps one, and absolutely LOVE the 50 dps one" Or maybe they are saying "yeah, the active one will give me a couple percent extra dps, but i find it really complicated and it messes with my rotation - ill take the easier talent and enjoy my time playing the game"

You also completely ignore the fact for a massive portion of the player base, they dont even think about the output of each talent, they just say "oh shit, i love the look of that talent! so cool!" and take it.

All of heroic can comfortably be cleared with sub optimal talents and gear on every player in there, and mythic is only a TINY percentage of the playerbase.

Dude the moment you willingly sac half of your dps and decrease your group/raids success chances you actively trolling/griefng like how you even deny this, HOWEVER if you do this on solo play its perfectly fine have fun with agi mage meeleing your boars just have some respect of other players in grp content.

[Echocho]

You must not play all that much or care all that much. That's fine, but it doesn't invalidate his statement, which is true. Picking ONE wrong talent equates roughly a 18% decrease in overall DPS for me.

Again I haven't seen a single talent in the game where the tooltip explicitly says that it will result in a 18% increase or decrease in DPS.
For example Incanter's Flow for mages looks like it averages out at 12% increased damage, Rune of Power looks like it averages out at 10% increased damage but it's an active ability so most people would probably pick Incanter's Flow since it's a 2% increase over Rune of Power and is passive. The 3rd option Mirror Images doesn't have any number attached to it at all, it just says that copies of yourself cast spells for 40 seconds so it's impossible to know how big of a loss or gain that result in.

[Azharok]

Again I haven't seen a single talent in the game where the tooltip explicitly says that it will result in a 18% increase or decrease in DPS.
For example Incanter's Flow for mages looks like it averages out at 12% increased damage, Rune of Power looks like it averages out at 10% increased damage but it's an active ability so most people would probably pick Incanter's Flow since it's a 2% increase over Rune of Power and is passive. The 3rd option Mirror Images doesn't have any number attached to it at all, it just says that copies of yourself cast spells for 40 seconds so it's impossible to know how big of a loss or gain that result in.

Okay that's fair, but then we could move over to the dps rotation and ask how people figure out the optimal rotation, and how having a bad rotation probably impacts your DPS more than picking the "wrong" talent and doing the correct rotation.

[Declaron]

WoW itself isn’t actually all that toxic, at the moment in fact it’s in its least toxic state since end of WoD because the people who can actually enjoy playing the game are still playing and all the people who actually don’t like the game but are so emotionally and financially invested are unsubbed and spending their time on mmoc until shadowlands comes out.

Not even trolling, just look at the way everyone speaks to each other on here it’s on the large part ridiculous.

[Caerrona]

Again I haven't seen a single talent in the game where the tooltip explicitly says that it will result in a 18% increase or decrease in DPS.
For example Incanter's Flow for mages looks like it averages out at 12% increased damage, Rune of Power looks like it averages out at 10% increased damage but it's an active ability so most people would probably pick Incanter's Flow since it's a 2% increase over Rune of Power and is passive. The 3rd option Mirror Images doesn't have any number attached to it at all, it just says that copies of yourself cast spells for 40 seconds so it's impossible to know how big of a loss or gain that result in.

One thing to note is that mage (specifically that exact talent row) is one of the worst choices you could have picked. Id argue that for (fire) mages rune of power is one of the highest dps increases in the game, talent wise, since they are combust the spec.

Now I understand where you are coming from just a glance at the tooltip and averaging out the numbers. There is WAY more to it than that though.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

One thing to note is that mage (specifically that exact talent row) is one of the worst choices you could have picked. Id argue that for (fire) mages rune of power is one of the highest dps increases in the game, talent wise, since they are combust the spec.

Now I understand where you are coming from just a glance at the tooltip and averaging out the numbers. There is WAY more to it than that though.

dont even bother with this guy i tried to explain it to him he dont understad this or dont want to, he thinks legit that talents are 2% dps increases and dont have any multipliers or that covanants are 5% dps increases and that all the top raider complain for no reason. Ppl like him are the ones getting kicked and come into to this very thread here to complain about how toxic and elitest Mythic raider are despite them trolling or being ignorant on purpose both end up with the same results of griefing the raid performance and how toxic dps meters are and how they should be removed instead of looking in the mirror they are the root of the toxicity in 90% of the cases in pugs i personaly dont rage i just insta kick and i get /W to kill myself after i kick the 40k dps fire mage with 470ilvl

[Echocho]

One thing to note is that mage (specifically that exact talent row) is one of the worst choices you could have picked. Id argue that for (fire) mages rune of power is one of the highest dps increases in the game, talent wise, since they are combust the spec.

Now I understand where you are coming from just a glance at the tooltip and averaging out the numbers. There is WAY more to it than that though.

I know it is, but the game doesn't really tell you that. Okay, I didn't know that row was a bad example, I just picked one at random

[Necromantic]

youre a .... na i wont get myself baned cuz of a bunch of casuals, just log in to your mage play fire without rune of power it will be more than 20% or balance druid without streaking stars 35% of your overal dps.
This was my last take on you paradox buddys i wont discus numbers with some one who has zero clue about this game take it from some one whos playing in a top 30 guild and knows his shit or just sim it if you dont belive me like, as some one already said here teaching badys how to play or read number is a waste of O2




i paly @ the top for 13 years (top 20-30 in WOD-BFA) i do TC and im a Member of my class discords TC and Beta Tester dont talk about ppl you dont know mr casual

I’m a what? Were you going to call me names? Why? Didn’t we learn that’s wrong in middle school? I know I did.

Any talents that do that much more are in perfect simulated Patchwerk fights that don’t exist now.

[javierdsv]

A heavily structured ban system.

That's all you need. Have you seen how games like League of Legends tell you exactly the words that caused you to get banned, and also points out you are within the 1% that likes to ruin it for everyone? That's some psychological work right there, and it works.

I myself got banned in WoW once the last year, and it really made me fear for my account stuff, never in my life will I ever get myself banned again.


However, when the current state of the game is bad, like BFA, you can't control the Toxicity of people outside of their domains, like all the crybabies in this forums. So there's only so much that can be done.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

I’m a what? Were you going to call me names? Why? Didn’t we learn that’s wrong in middle school? I know I did.

Any talents that do that much more are in perfect simulated Patchwerk fights that don’t exist now.

I will not call you names and i wont discuss numbers with you or the other dude that thinks that rune of power and incan flow is within 2 % dps on a fire mage because I can see that you have no idea what you are talking about.
You just tilted me the other day with your ignorance but i had to remeber that casuals live in thier own world were math or raditional thinking dont exist.

[Rotted]

I remember back in wrath having the ToC healer trinket ninja looted from me by 2 different guilds with no consequences to them whatsoever. Anecdotal experience.

One of my earliest memories in WoW is when I asked a guy who was advertising a group for RFD in general chat if he needed a healer. He replied "go fuck yourself and die". These people have always existed.

The WoW community is what you personally bring to it - if you are super friendly in a group, if you stand up for people being bullied in your battlegrounds, if you counter arguments with helpful advice, your experience will be much more pleasant, and you'll probably make some friends along the way. If you just queue into random groups and make no effort while utilizing all the new tools Blizzard has implemented for efficiency, don't whine about the community on the forums.

Given at that point in the game we had the LFD implemtned which as I mentioned is one reason why this type of toxicity was allowed to breed, you've just proven my point with your experience,

Yes people have always been scumbags, If you read what I said I never denied that once, what I said was there was consequences. Mostly until the end of TBC and lightly until late Wrath, every player earned a reputation on their server. Reputations most of us cared about because it directly dictated peoples actions towards us.

[Necromantic]

I will not call you names and i wont discuss numbers with you or the other dude that thinks that rune of power and incan flow is within 2 % dps on a fire mage because I can see that you have no idea what you are talking about.
You just tilted me the other day with your ignorance but i had to remeber that casuals live in thier own world were math or raditional thinking dont exist.

No, I do know because I have a fire mage. Rune of Power "can" have higher DPS on fights with no movement or mechanics but compared to Incanter's Flow, it's not a 20% difference even in current meta's best case scenario.

And never once has anyone ever said "man, we'd have had better success had you used Rune of Power" or anything of the like. And even if Rune of Power is an overall slight DPS increase, deliberately choosing Incanter's isn't a bad thing. Not everyone feels they have to push for maximum numbers, casual or not.

No need to hold such anger for these people unless one of them ruined some experience of yours.

[Azharok]

No, I do know because I have a fire mage. Rune of Power "can" have higher DPS on fights with no movement or mechanics but compared to Incanter's Flow, it's not a 20% difference even in current meta's best case scenario.

And never once has anyone ever said "man, we'd have had better success had you used Rune of Power" or anything of the like. And even if Rune of Power is an overall slight DPS increase, deliberately choosing Incanter's isn't a bad thing. Not everyone feels they have to push for maximum numbers, casual or not.

No need to hold such anger for these people unless one of them ruined some experience of yours.

I mean looking at warcraft logs, 0.83% of Firemages don't use Rune of Power. Across all percentiles, there must be a reason for it ....

[Necromantic]

It does sim the highest overall DPS but it's not so much that it will ever make/break you. If you fail a fight, it wasn't because your mage didn't take rune of power. I'm sure somebody somewhere has use it as a scapegoat.

[Azharok]

It does sim the highest overall DPS but it's not so much that it will ever make/break you. If you fail a fight, it wasn't because your mage didn't take rune of power. I'm sure somebody somewhere has use it as a scapegoat.

I usually don't take Fire mages in M+ when pugging because a good amount of the time they don't perform as well as classes that don't require as much setup from the tank. The problems arise when people look at top players, mimic the setup but do not have the team comp to support the playstyle required.

And I'd still argue that when every second counts playing optimally WITH the optimal talents/traits/essence etc is the better course if you intend on completing content.

[Necromantic]

I usually don't take Fire mages in M+ when pugging because a good amount of the time they don't perform as well as classes that don't require as much setup from the tank. The problems arise when people look at top players, mimic the setup but do not have the team comp to support the playstyle required.

And I'd still argue that when every second counts playing optimally WITH the optimal talents/traits/essence etc is the better course if you intend on completing content.

That's not nice... fire lives mat... nvm

I don't disagree that there are optimal talents but he specifically called out rune of power. Even copying/pasting from Icy Veins:

Rune of Power is the best DPS talent. However, due to its restrictive nature, it may be not be practical to use on all encounters. Incanter's Flow is a bit weaker numerically, but is usable on all types of fight encounters.