Affliction's lack of tankiness

[enigma77]

Just a quick comment regarding Affliction’s durability, or rather the lack thereof. Why is Affliction the only Warlock spec with zero mitigation/durability? The stated class fantasy of Warlocks is being a slow, immobile but tanky caster. Well Affliction is certainly slow and immobile, but tanky? No. Destruction and Demo are tanky, with the mastery and Soul Link.

In Legion Affliction with Drain Soul self healing we were tanky, well at least in the sense that we could heal ourselves a lot. But ever since Bfa Affliction’s defense has been paperthin, hell a mage is tankier than an Afflock. It’s not directly related to dps performance I suppose, but nonetheless seems like a major design flaw that seems to be overlooked or ignored.

This also, I fear, once again spells doom for any pvp aspirations of the spec. With a 4 times nerfed Demon Armor and the complete lack of any kind of passive mitigation or any reliable healing and one of the weakest defensive cooldowns in the game, Affliction is once again going to be fodder, taking downright unhealable damage. Quite a pity, considering the damage looks good and the new pvp talents interesting and fun.

A simple suggestion would be to make Soul Link, a long term hallmark of Warlock durability, once again available to Affliction or come up with something new, anything really. It’s desperately needed. In pve and pvp alike. Our class fantasy is not being fulfilled.


https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nges/142100/21


What a weird game this game has become where a mage is tankier than an Affliction Warlock.

If you agree, got access to beta and play on US servers, feel free to repost this on the US forums.

Also please ignore and report the two trolls shitposting in our forum. Focus on the issue and spread the word, we need changes before it's too late.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Just a quick comment regarding Affliction’s durability, or rather the lack thereof. Why is Affliction the only Warlock spec with zero mitigation/durability? The stated class fantasy of Warlocks is being a slow, immobile but tanky caster. Well Affliction is certainly slow and immobile, but tanky? No. Destruction and Demo are tanky, with the mastery and Soul Link.

In Legion Affliction with Drain Soul self healing we were tanky, well at least in the sense that we could heal ourselves a lot. But ever since Bfa Affliction’s defense has been paperthin, hell a mage is tankier than an Afflock. It’s not directly related to dps performance I suppose, but nonetheless seems like a major design flaw that seems to be overlooked or ignored.

This also, I fear, once again spells doom for any pvp aspirations of the spec. With a 4 times nerfed Demon Armor and the complete lack of any kind of passive mitigation or any reliable healing and one of the weakest defensive cooldowns in the game, Affliction is once again going to be fodder, taking downright unhealable damage. Quite a pity, considering the damage looks good and the new pvp talents interesting and fun.

A simple suggestion would be to make Soul Link, a long term hallmark of Warlock durability, once again available to Affliction or come up with something new, anything really. It’s desperately needed. In pve and pvp alike. Our class fantasy is not being fulfilled.


https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nges/142100/21


What a weird game this game has become where a mage is tankier than an Affliction Warlock.

To be fair, there is no rule or law that says a mage should always be squishier than a cancer spreading fear spamming mongoloid that is objectively easier to play.

[Kehego]

To be fair, there is no rule or law that says a mage should always be squishier than a cancer spreading fear spamming mongoloid that is objectively easier to play.

when people are used to being stupid broken, balance seems like oppression

[Pufflesmash]

In PvE, they'll have a conduit that gives them 20% leech (at rank 1) for 10 seconds whenever they use a healthstone; that's a really bonkers amount of healing, especially with how ridiculous their damage is on beta at the moment.

[enigma77]

In PvE, they'll have a conduit that gives them 20% leech (at rank 1) for 10 seconds whenever they use a healthstone; that's a really bonkers amount of healing, especially with how ridiculous their damage is on beta at the moment.

Healthstone can only be used once per fight, this is next to worthless.

[CrawlFromThePit]

when people are used to being stupid broken, balance seems like oppression

Indeed, 15 years of being absurdly overpowered and borderline automatic surely brainwashed them.

[Pufflesmash]

Healthstone can only be used once per fight, this is next to worthless.

It's strong in M+

[enigma77]

It's strong in M+

Granted, but it's hardly enough on its own, particulary not in other types of content.

[Flantini]

Isn't demon port now baseline? So for movement you would have demon port and gateway. While its not crazy mobility its better than a Spriest imo. Plus two covenants provide pretty powerful movement abilities and the other two provide powerful defenses so you can pick if you want to be more mobile/more tanky. I think that soul rot could be a cool dmg cd/self heal esp when paired with inevitable demise, But 20% hp cost on seems a little too much in pvp. All of the warlock covenant class abilities currently seem underwhelming in pvp to me.

[Razion]

The main type of survivability I think is lacking for Aff & Dest is being able to have dps pets take aggro and reliably tank for the Warlock without always having to rely on the Voidwalker.

[agentsi]

To be fair, there is no rule or law that says a mage should always be squishier than a cancer spreading fear spamming mongoloid that is objectively easier to play.

Actually, we all know a Mage is easier to play, it always has been, and always will be. And we also know that the design around warlocks from the start, as stated by many, many Q&As and talks, is that the warlocks are supposed to be tankier as they lack the mobility of a mage. Frost, fire, arcane, are all far easier specs to play than any warlock spec. And while you may disagree, on average, those mage specs I just mentioned, cast around 5-6 spells during a 2-3 min fight if they aren't the ones casting bloodlust/timewarp. While a warlock of any spec, is casting upwards of 9-14 different spells during a fight. I've literally seen arcane, fire, and frost have 6 total damaging abilities hit the boss, not counting a trinket.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=13
Just in case you try to be silly, and argue that I'm incorrect, I'm not.

If the mage is to continue being tankier than a warlock, then they need to lose their mobility as well.

[Aggrophobic]

Just a quick comment regarding Affliction’s durability, or rather the lack thereof. Why is Affliction the only Warlock spec with zero mitigation/durability? The stated class fantasy of Warlocks is being a slow, immobile but tanky caster. Well Affliction is certainly slow and immobile, but tanky? No. Destruction and Demo are tanky, with the mastery and Soul Link.

In Legion Affliction with Drain Soul self healing we were tanky, well at least in the sense that we could heal ourselves a lot. But ever since Bfa Affliction’s defense has been paperthin, hell a mage is tankier than an Afflock. It’s not directly related to dps performance I suppose, but nonetheless seems like a major design flaw that seems to be overlooked or ignored.

This also, I fear, once again spells doom for any pvp aspirations of the spec. With a 4 times nerfed Demon Armor and the complete lack of any kind of passive mitigation or any reliable healing and one of the weakest defensive cooldowns in the game, Affliction is once again going to be fodder, taking downright unhealable damage. Quite a pity, considering the damage looks good and the new pvp talents interesting and fun.

A simple suggestion would be to make Soul Link, a long term hallmark of Warlock durability, once again available to Affliction or come up with something new, anything really. It’s desperately needed. In pve and pvp alike. Our class fantasy is not being fulfilled.


https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nges/142100/21


What a weird game this game has become where a mage is tankier than an Affliction Warlock.

If you agree, got access to beta and play on US servers, feel free to repost this on the US forums.

Also please ignore and report the two trolls shitposting in our forum. Focus on the issue and spread the word, we need changes before it's too late.

Yeah it's odd but please be a tad quite about afli, ok. Blizzard more or less buffed their output and it's great to be miles ahead of everyone else!

[enigma77]

Yeah it's odd but please be a tad quite about afli, ok. Blizzard more or less buffed their output and it's great to be miles ahead of everyone else!

I'd rather have a complete, fun class rather than one with overtuned damage and a terrible toolkit/survivability.

And double standards/inconsistency naturally piss me off.

[Th3Scourge]

Don't need that much survivability when you're literally melting packs of mobs

[CrawlFromThePit]

Actually, we all know a Mage is easier to play, it always has been, and always will be. And we also know that the design around warlocks from the start, as stated by many, many Q&As and talks, is that the warlocks are supposed to be tankier as they lack the mobility of a mage. Frost, fire, arcane, are all far easier specs to play than any warlock spec. And while you may disagree, on average, those mage specs I just mentioned, cast around 5-6 spells during a 2-3 min fight if they aren't the ones casting bloodlust/timewarp. While a warlock of any spec, is casting upwards of 9-14 different spells during a fight. I've literally seen arcane, fire, and frost have 6 total damaging abilities hit the boss, not counting a trinket.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=13
Just in case you try to be silly, and argue that I'm incorrect, I'm not.

If the mage is to continue being tankier than a warlock, then they need to lose their mobility as well.

Careful, your ignorance is showing. The only reason mages are tankier than locks is because of their mobility, they're not tankier by just standing there so your strawman about the need to remove their mobility is invalid.

We're obviously talking about pvp here, being tanky in pve for a dps class is mostly irrelevant, unless you're racing for mythic world first, which you are not as evidenced by your display of inferior intellect. Therefore, your argument about the pve dps rotation is also invalid and I'm not even gonna elaborate on how the amount of abilities used during a fight does not reflect the complexity of the class, pvp is more about doing the right thing at the right time than it is about sitting on your keyboard to display your entire spellbook to your buddies.

And lastly, the success of a class is not direct evidence of its difficulty level.

[agentsi]

Careful, your ignorance is showing. The only reason mages are tankier than locks is because of their mobility, they're not tankier by just standing there so your strawman about the need to remove their mobility is invalid.

We're obviously talking about pvp here, being tanky in pve for a dps class is mostly irrelevant, unless you're racing for mythic world first, which you are not as evidenced by your display of inferior intellect. Therefore, your argument about the pve dps rotation is also invalid and I'm not even gonna elaborate on how the amount of abilities used during a fight does not reflect the complexity of the class, pvp is more about doing the right thing at the right time than it is about sitting on your keyboard to display your entire spellbook to your buddies.

And lastly, the success of a class is not direct evidence of its difficulty level.

A class is tanky..... because...... they're.....wait for it...... mobile?

In no way shape or form does anyone consider mobility a form of tankiness*, in WoW, in PvP, in any game. Tankiness* means you're ability to take damage, your ability to mitigate damage, not damage avoidance. Classes/Roles with high mobility are squishy, not tanky. As having both would be way too much for other classes/roles who lack one or the other to handle.

There is no need to even address anything else you've stated because your very first statement is 100% factually false. Does it make you feel better to try and be rude and condescening even though you're 100% completely wrong?

[Ihazpaws]

Don't need that much survivability when you're literally melting packs of mobs

^ Said by true PvE player. *Sigh* Usually when we are talking about survivability of a spec, it is very tightly tied together with the PvP aspect.
I am confused why blizz don't wanna make the classes that have tools for self healing tru dmg, to do so. Why the healing has to be so minimal that it's pointless. Only DH hunters actually heal passively by doing dmg because of the stacking of Leech. Why shadowpriest and affli lock has to have so shitty heals? They are casters they are the ones that need the selfheals tru dmg in this damn melee is the king game.

And those who whine about mages: You seriously think that mage is hard to play? Pressing 1 or 2 macros is hard? Try keeping dots up on multible targets or doing optimal dmg as a demonology warlock without single fail in rotatio. I am not gonna talk anything about destro since it might aswell just be given to mage. So stupid spec nowadays.

[CrawlFromThePit]

A class is tanky..... because...... they're.....wait for it...... mobile?

In no way shape or form does anyone consider mobility a form of tankiness*, in WoW, in PvP, in any game. Tankiness* means you're ability to take damage, your ability to mitigate damage, not damage avoidance. Classes/Roles with high mobility are squishy, not tanky. As having both would be way too much for other classes/roles who lack one or the other to handle.

There is no need to even address anything else you've stated because your very first statement is 100% factually false. Does it make you feel better to try and be rude and condescening even though you're 100% completely wrong?

The only reason mages are harder to kill during a fight is because they're mobile. Mages don't take less damage than warlocks.
Are you happier now that the obvious thing that you were supposed to already understand is now explained to you in more detailed words?

Do I need to go on or have you been informed of where your place is?

You claim I'm 100% wrong but you're the one building a strawman with pve graphs in a pvp argument. What's next, is there a rock bottom to this idiocy or I'll have to watch you eat your own shit to prove a point that never existed in the first place?

No wonder we have bullshit arguments when players don't even understand how classes survive in a fight.

[Gotural]

This ^

Plus @CrawlFromThePit, simply picking Netherwind Armor reduces damage by atleast 7-8% on average, which is enough for a Mage to be tankier than an Affliction Warlock.

[Aggrophobic]

I'd rather have a complete, fun class rather than one with overtuned damage and a terrible toolkit/survivability.

And double standards/inconsistency naturally piss me off.

Oh, the toolkit is not terrible at all. They are really solid.
The survivability might be a weakness but they have few others.

- - - Updated - - -

^ Said by true PvE player. *Sigh* Usually when we are talking about survivability of a spec, it is very tightly tied together with the PvP aspect.
I am confused why blizz don't wanna make the classes that have tools for self healing tru dmg, to do so. Why the healing has to be so minimal that it's pointless. Only DH hunters actually heal passively by doing dmg because of the stacking of Leech. Why shadowpriest and affli lock has to have so shitty heals? They are casters they are the ones that need the selfheals tru dmg in this damn melee is the king game.

And those who whine about mages: You seriously think that mage is hard to play? Pressing 1 or 2 macros is hard? Try keeping dots up on multible targets or doing optimal dmg as a demonology warlock without single fail in rotatio. I am not gonna talk anything about destro since it might aswell just be given to mage. So stupid spec nowadays.

PvP is just a mini-game in WoW. It has never been the focus what so ever.
More or less like pet battles but with less actual content.