Shadowlands Beta - Mythic Keystone Dungeons Changes

[Esper]

Don't play then, seems pretty obvious to walk away if you're not having fun.

Didn't work this expac if you wanted the azerite death laser. I think I cleared six, maybe seven M+ dungeons total this xpac because I hate them so much... and all of it was done to get that power to level 3 because of how useful it was for all other content.

[Henako]

the bursting one is unfair priest are going to have the advantage since they can mass dispel and us lowley healers will only be able to dispell one

It is good for classes to have strengths and weaknesses

[Sharnie786]

Some of these changes seem good but Grievous' new functionality is definitely a nerf for Resto Druids! Feelsbad!

Imagine someone has 4 stacks of grievous and in order to remove it casting Rejuv 4 times removes it faster than Regrowth! That seems kinda messed up to me tbh

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...did you not read the update to Volcanic? It does exactly that (unless you are a BM hunter.

The person you replied to actually had a good point. The damage reduction idea is great because you know mages can blink when falling meaning they won't die and they can slow fall, so too can priests with levitate. Pandaren taken less falling damage, druid's cat form reduces falling damage too, warlock circles also work, you can use things like goblin gliders to reduce fall damage and a monk'stranscendence. Right now it looks like it will kill you on landing. A damage reduction upon landing reduces the damage done while being thrown up and when you're back on the ground.

Personally, i like the idea that DPS are punished. However, healers mess up too on volcanic so it should be an throughput reduction or something like an armour reduction for tanks.

[dragnipur]

They ruined raiding with the gear from M+, they are a crutch

I disagree with you.As a person who isn't doing Mythic raiding anymore.M+ is perfectly oriented for the players like myself.Blizzard did a really smart job by introducing those dungeons.They keep players like me subscribed.

Didn't work this expac if you wanted the azerite death laser. I think I cleared six, maybe seven M+ dungeons total this xpac because I hate them so much... and all of it was done to get that power to level 3 because of how useful it was for all other content.

In my opinion Blizzard should somehow separate M+ from Mythic raiding.It is wrong if raiders feel obligated to do M+ just because of some specific gear which only drops at M+.This is a mistake.If the specific loot drops from raids and M+ then it is another story.Raiders will have a choice that way to decide what content they want to do.Also i why not add more outfits and skins specific loot to M+?I enjoyed how were working the chalange modes in MoP.

[Flame6]

Seems like nerfs across the board. Looks like M+ will be a little bit easier in SL.

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They ruined raiding with the gear from M+, they are a crutch

I dont know about being a crutch, but I agree with the thought of gear from M+ makes raid gear feel less satisfying. Its very easy to gear through M+'s to the point that normal and heroic raids have 0 or very few upgrades available.

[Grimalkin of Old]

Don't play then, seems pretty obvious to walk away if you're not having fun.

I always thought the better option is for the game to be improved instead of abandoned.

[Nevcairiel]

...did you not read the update to Volcanic? It does exactly that (unless you are a BM hunter).

I think he just wants more of that!

[Sunnydee]

Nothing but good changes here! cant complain.

[Aradur]

To bad, loved buffing my mates with Rallying Cry at 5+ Bursting Stacks to make my Healer curse.

[Zephire]

mythic dungeons aka bliz asking us to repeat the same content about 1000x for the entire 2 years of the xpac

this game feels too much like a job rather than fun

What do you like then? What do you feel WoW should add? Gotta be really hard to develop a game to someone only stating that they don't like X whilst not mention what they're looking for^^

They ruined raiding with the gear from M+, they are a crutch

What? How?

OT:
The changes seem fine. They just gotta tune it right. They are all affixes I'm okay with though so no change to my most hated affix, bolstering I' like my chain pulls damn it! Adding packs with tull health to those with low. It messes with mah flow yo!

[kranur]

Only took them 2 expansions to finally update them.

[h4rr0d]

the bursting one is unfair priest are going to have the advantage since they can mass dispel and us lowley healers will only be able to dispell one

Well, considering holy priest is snoozefest regardless and disc priest has very hard time dealing with high bursting stacks once everything is dead, I think this change is exactly what the doctor ordered. Now only to get all the muppet DPS to cluster for the MD to hit everyone. And a nice buff to shadow priest utility.

Overall I'm really happy with these changes and they might be what pushes me over to try disc priest in shadowlands after all.

Just wondering, what the break-even point is going to be for bursting/volcanic.

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...did you not read the update to Volcanic? It does exactly that (unless you are a BM hunter).

I can allready see it: "Stupid healer, I died from falling damage when I failed to move from big red bad stuff and you didn't snipe heal me midair"

[Azharok]

What? How?

The issue with BFA's M+ is that the gear you get from the weekly chest surpasses HC raid gear. Rendering HC raids pointless to people who do M15s and up.

Personnal anecdote : I've cleared HC Nyalotha maybe TWICE total, I run the odd Nzoth for cloak upgrade, I got a few upgrades the first time I ran it (went 11/12), but that is only because the toon was still pretty new. After a couple of weeks of M+ there was no gear incentive from HC raids for me to run them but I was still lacking AOTC.

And depending on classes even MYTHIC difficulty offers little in terms of rewards (only Cara and Nzoth offer higher ilvl than M15). Mythic Raden trinket is a side-grade at most (my heroic + socket beats the mythic version on sims, i got lucky). Blizzard designed both contents to be performed in a bubble, when they should be complimentary.

They should either offer higher rewards for M+ at the 20-25 bracket (arbitrary) to mimic Mythic raiding loot, and at the same time make M15 give loot that is just slightly worse than HC raiding to still give an edge to raiders. In that manner players who only run M+ could keep pushing keys and get "good" gear, and the bulk of raiders aren't "forced" to run M+ concurrently to raids to keep progressing.

[Scrysis]

Some of these changes seem good but Grievous' new functionality is definitely a nerf for Resto Druids! Feelsbad!

Imagine someone has 4 stacks of grievous and in order to remove it casting Rejuv 4 times removes it faster than Regrowth! That seems kinda messed up to me tbh

Well, right now, you can't get rid of any of the grevious stacks at all unless you heal someone above the threshold. Druids have swiftmend, and they're getting nourish back. And nourish is going to have modified cast times. So I don't think they'll be in much of a bad position at all.

[Zephire]

The issue with BFA's M+ is that the gear you get from the weekly chest surpasses HC raid gear. Rendering HC raids pointless to people who do M15s and up.

Personnal anecdote : I've cleared HC Nyalotha maybe TWICE total, I run the odd Nzoth for cloak upgrade, I got a few upgrades the first time I ran it (went 11/12), but that is only because the toon was still pretty new. After a couple of weeks of M+ there was no gear incentive from HC raids for me to run them but I was still lacking AOTC.

And depending on classes even MYTHIC difficulty offers little in terms of rewards (only Cara and Nzoth offer higher ilvl than M15). Mythic Raden trinket is a side-grade at most (my heroic + socket beats the mythic version on sims, i got lucky). Blizzard designed both contents to be performed in a bubble, when they should be complimentary.

They should either offer higher rewards for M+ at the 20-25 bracket (arbitrary) to mimic Mythic raiding loot, and at the same time make M15 give loot that is just slightly worse than HC raiding to still give an edge to raiders. In that manner players who only run M+ could keep pushing keys and get "good" gear, and the bulk of raiders aren't "forced" to run M+ concurrently to raids to keep progressing.

I get your point. You do have mythic raiding though which drops higher ilvl than m15 and are equal to the weekly chest a m15 gives.

The next step in raiding is mythic and it's out there. I feel like my mythic raiding killed m+ a bit for me since I can't really get any upgrades from m15+ due to max ilvl it dorps are 465 while I have 475 in more or less every slot due to farming mythic raiding half-clear for a while.

I just wich they both dropped the same ilvl so that I could get upgrades from time to time. Especially now with the ability to buy corruptions you'd want new, clean 475 items to soil with corruption but you'd have to wait for 1 piece of random chest loot to get that through m+.

Then again, I do raiding because of the group challenge and because I think it's very fun (especially mythic N'zoth, he's great!). Gear is nice to get but I'd say it's just a 25% reason for me to do raids.

From my view they should make max ilvl gear drop from m+, mythic raid and pvp at a similar way. In SL the chest could award x ilvl higher than ilvl cap at max since you have a lot of possible choices. PvP should also lower the required rating for ilvl a little. It feels unreasonable to be required to play at 2400 rating go get the same as a m+15. It's not even comparable in difficulty in my opinion. Maybe 2000 rating would mirror the difficulty of m+15. Or increase m+ level required for max level to maybe 20? Point is, it feels soooo unbalanced between how rewarding m+ vs pvp is. I think you should be able to get gear rather early and then use skill to go higher.

TL;DR: I don't see how m+ kills raiding for all but I can see why some feel that way, sure. Still, mythic raiding is there.

[Enter Name Here]

[...]
If the specific loot drops from raids and M+ then it is another story.Raiders will have a choice that way to decide what content they want to do.
[...]

i am almost sure they will feel pressured to do both to increase their odds

[brigada]

All changes look great!

[Lorgran]

mythic dungeons aka bliz asking us to repeat the same content about 1000x for the entire 2 years of the xpac

this game feels too much like a job rather than fun

The irony of the name and the comment is just to good

[Twdft]

Some of these changes seem good but Grievous' new functionality is definitely a nerf for Resto Druids! Feelsbad!

Imagine someone has 4 stacks of grievous and in order to remove it casting Rejuv 4 times removes it faster than Regrowth! That seems kinda messed up to me tbh

You'd need 4 gcds to remove 4 stacks, in which time it might stack up again. I don't heal at all, but it seems fine to me. You'll have to decide how many stacks you want to remove right away to make your hot more effective.

The issue with BFA's M+ is that the gear you get from the weekly chest surpasses HC raid gear. Rendering HC raids pointless to people who do M15s and up.

Personnal anecdote : I've cleared HC Nyalotha maybe TWICE total, I run the odd Nzoth for cloak upgrade, I got a few upgrades the first time I ran it (went 11/12), but that is only because the toon was still pretty new. After a couple of weeks of M+ there was no gear incentive from HC raids for me to run them but I was still lacking AOTC.

That just highlights the "problem" of fixed raid size mythic. There are a lot of hc raiders who are good enough to raid mythic but don't do it due to organizational difficulty. Flex hc is really great, I don't think we had a single raid cancelled when someone wanted to go to the movies or anything. Doesn't matter if you go with 17 or 15. Can't go mythic though. That said, I don't think mythic should be flex. Only if they make a fifth difficulty above mythic for world first race and release mythic in already nerfed state we see a couple weeks after WF is over.

[Azharok]

You'd need 4 gcds to remove 4 stacks, in which time it might stack up again. I don't heal at all, but it seems fine to me. You'll have to decide how many stacks you want to remove right away to make your hot more effective.



That just highlights the "problem" of fixed raid size mythic. There are a lot of hc raiders who are good enough to raid mythic but don't do it due to organizational difficulty. Flex hc is really great, I don't think we had a single raid cancelled when someone wanted to go to the movies or anything. Doesn't matter if you go with 17 or 15. Can't go mythic though. That said, I don't think mythic should be flex. Only if they make a fifth difficulty above mythic for world first race and release mythic in already nerfed state we see a couple weeks after WF is over.

I'd 100% raid mythic difficulty if it was flex. I have no trouble raiding HC, but it's just to easy for me (the fact that some people struggle with HC is irrelevant, this is only my personnal opinion).