Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    Magtheridon post-nerf, for that matter. Coordination fights requiring more than a third of the raid to do something at a specific time are always difficult without practice. Pugs, especially, will not enjoy Magtheridon, even if it's an easy fight otherwise.

    Netherspite is similar in that it has responsibilities for the raid, but it's also such an easy concept that I can't remember ever seeing a group have trouble with it. Now, pre-nerf Shade of Aran, on the other hand -- bring 2 warlocks or hope that you're not carrying any deadweight.

    Prince... eh. Even with the movement, it's not a particularly bad fight. This one was more of a number's game, imo. If your healers are capable, you'll probably be fine outside of seriously bad play.

    Hydross, with the appropriate resist gear, was fine. I was expecting a tough fight, but my guild had no issue with it.


    Pug killers: Magtheridon, Gruul (shatter), Leotheras, Vashj, High Astromancer Solarian, Kael'thas, maybe Kazrogal if they have low DPS, definitely Archimonde, probably everything after Shade in BT, and Sunwell is completely out of the question for anything other than solid groups.

    Granted, some of this might be mitigated by having ultra-high DPS specs/configurations discovered that weren't used during TBC. I mean, current Classic numbers weren't standard back in Vanilla, were they?
    It will be mitigated by that but optimal stuff was figured out faster during the actual expansion itself compared to vanilla, or at least I think so.

    I'd actually be curious what a classic Cata "meta" would look (before legendary staff) like because that's a fairly forgotton and underdeveloped expansion that doesn't really have good private servers either, though I guess there was far more focus on personal performance already then, simming etc was more widespread and guides more commonly used.

  2. #42
    Classic's overnerfed state gets allways compared to early Vanilla.

    Yes of course people play much better now, because Classic draw all those mythic raiders away from the game and thats the reason why the raids are cleared with green geared new players :> Its for sure not the overnerfed patch version they took for the start of classic. Its all pure player skill from the current playerbase.
    -

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    What were some hard bosses in TBC?
    Hard compared to classic, or hard compared to retail?

    Because almost all the bosses were harder than any classic boss, but they are all pretty basic compared to modern mythic raid bosses.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    I actually wouldn't be all that surprised either.
    I don't think they can really time gate T5 since then you only have Mag and Gruul that are 25-man raids.

  4. #44
    Top guilds will have no problems destroying content as soon as it is released. Regular guilds will struggle a little on some bosses like Vashj, Kael, RoS, Mother, Council, Illidan and most of sunwell

    For the most part classic barley has any mechanics and enounters end within 1-2 minutes .. hardly any time to fail.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    I don't think they can really time gate T5 since then you only have Mag and Gruul that are 25-man raids.
    If they don't timegate T5, they basically enable a lot of content skipping, people aren't going to give a rats arse about Magtheridon (besides the TK attunement) if T5 is available right off the bat.

    Even if you want to argue from a purely game perspective, Blizzard is unlikely to release TBC with TK,SSC and Hyjal being open right off the bat for the pure sake of them being able to release them as content later on.
    They also want to stretch TBC for ~2 years, which won't work out that well if the only content being added is BT, ZA and SWP.

    Not to mention that it will completely screw Arena season if the T5 equivalent (Season 2 gear) isn't even available while T5 already is.

  6. #46
    They absolutely will release T5 later/time gate it if that's feasible from a design POV, there's no reason for them not to do so.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Even if you want to argue from a purely game perspective, Blizzard is unlikely to release TBC with TK,SSC and Hyjal being open right off the bat for the pure sake of them being able to release them as content later on.
    Like I said, they'd have to release tier 5 because otherwise there is nothing for 25-man raiding guilds to do. They could keep Hyjal for later, sure, but without SSC and TK you're basically forcing 25-man raiding guilds to split themselves in 2 to farm Karazhan.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    They absolutely will release T5 later/time gate it if that's feasible from a design POV, there's no reason for them not to do so.
    The reason is that T5 is the only 25-man raiding content that TBC launched with, apart from Mag and Gruul which is a total of 3 bosses. Unless you think they plan on making Karazhan 25-man, then tier 5 has to be available at launch.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Like I said, they'd have to release tier 5 because otherwise there is nothing for 25-man raiding guilds to do. They could keep Hyjal for later, sure, but without SSC and TK you're basically forcing 25-man raiding guilds to split themselves in 2 to farm Karazhan.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The reason is that T5 is the only 25-man raiding content that TBC launched with, apart from Mag and Gruul which is a total of 3 bosses. Unless you think they plan on making Karazhan 25-man, then tier 5 has to be available at launch.
    I realize that, but I maybe shouldn't have made that post with as much confidence. It still wouldn't surprise me if they delay it somehow to stretch content out, though I guess it also depends on how important they consider the longevity of "classic" releases to be now, their plans around it might have changed and it might only need to last until they can pump classic WotLK or whatever out of the door.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Like I said, they'd have to release tier 5 because otherwise there is nothing for 25-man raiding guilds to do. They could keep Hyjal for later, sure, but without SSC and TK you're basically forcing 25-man raiding guilds to split themselves in 2 to farm Karazhan.
    That's how it was when TBC launched, except it wasn't timegated but people simply required more time to clear content.

    People are going to skip past Karazhan after a month if SSC / TK is available right off the bat, because craftable items / heroic / badges completely suffice to clear T5.
    Blizzard even buffed Karazhan loot post launch because it was worse than some heroic blues in some cases.

  10. #50
    Only thing that slow down people and have them not clear everything in 1 or 2 days is time gating and blizzard delaying release of raids. You can pretty much clear all raids upto sunwell with loads of T3 pieces on you. If you believe anything else you will be a very sad person

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    People are going to skip past Karazhan after a month if SSC / TK is available right off the bats.
    Karazhan is a 10-man raid, basically how strat, BRD and Scholo were at release in Vanilla. It's meant to be skipped over by full raiding guilds. That's the point. 25-man raiding guilds are going to want to have 25-man raids to play.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Karazhan is a 10-man raid, basically how strat, BRD and Scholo were at release in Vanilla. It's meant to be skipped over by full raiding guilds. That's the point. 25-man raiding guilds are going to want to have 25-man raids to play.
    First off, comparing dungeons to an actual raid that drops tier set items is a stretch.

    Second, those dungeons dropped loot that is actually superior to items from raids on occassion and due to only having two items per boss on 40 people, it's less likely to get loot than 3-4 items on 25.
    Karazhan has barely any items that are superior to SSC / TK loot besides some trinkets.

    If SSC / TK are open right off the bat, then all of Tier 4 are completely fly over content besides Attunements and DST.

  13. #53
    They should do it like this:

    *Release: Heroic Dungeons available (except MT), T4 available (KZ,Gruul, Magtheridon), Shattrath Vendor badge available, S1 PVP in rated arena
    *Phase 2: T5 available (SSC, TK), S2 in rated arena, S1 now purchasable with BG badges
    *Phase 3: ZA, Shattrath vendor updated with ZA gear
    *Phase 4: T6 part 1 available (BT, Hyjal), S3 in rated arena, S2 now purchasable with BG badges, S1 purchasable with T4 tokens
    *Phase 5: Badge reset, Quel'Danas available (with badge vendor), T6 part 2 available (Sunwell), MT dungeon available, S4 in rated arena, S3 purchasable with T6 tokens.

    It's not like they originally released the content but this should make for a good progression system for most guilds hardcore or not.

    As for the faceroll: it will be an obvious faceroll since people know every fight, how to cheese it and what classes to play, so everything will be optimized to faceroll raids. Pugs may still hit some walls obviously but any organized group should and will stomp raids.
    Last edited by Baleful; 2020-09-06 at 06:18 PM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    First off, comparing dungeons to an actual raid that drops tier set items is a stretch.

    Second, those dungeons dropped loot that is actually superior to items from raids on occassion and due to only having two items per boss on 40 people, it's less likely to get loot than 3-4 items on 25.
    Karazhan has barely any items that are superior to SSC / TK loot besides some trinkets.

    If SSC / TK are open right off the bat, then all of Tier 4 are completely fly over content besides Attunements and DST.
    Again, you're missing the point. It's not about loot. If T5 isn't there at release or shortly after, what do 25-man raiding guilds do with their time?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    If they don't timegate T5, they basically enable a lot of content skipping, people aren't going to give a rats arse about Magtheridon (besides the TK attunement) if T5 is available right off the bat.

    Even if you want to argue from a purely game perspective, Blizzard is unlikely to release TBC with TK,SSC and Hyjal being open right off the bat for the pure sake of them being able to release them as content later on.
    They also want to stretch TBC for ~2 years, which won't work out that well if the only content being added is BT, ZA and SWP.

    Not to mention that it will completely screw Arena season if the T5 equivalent (Season 2 gear) isn't even available while T5 already is.
    Don't forget the super awesome ingame voice chat patch.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    what do 25-man raiding guilds do with their time?
    ...Splitraid Karazhan, farm Heroics, farm Reputation, farm crafting reagents, do Arena?

    TBC offers a lot more than just raiding to progress your character, which is why a lot of people are fond of it.

    You'd seriously think they throw almost all of Tier 4, Arena and a sizeable chunk of those alternate progression paths under the bus so people can start raidlogging even earlier?
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Don't forget the super awesome ingame voice chat patch.
    Blizzard uses the new ingame voice client even for Classic afaik.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Again, you're missing the point. It's not about loot. If T5 isn't there at release or shortly after, what do 25-man raiding guilds do with their time?
    Split Kara and do Mag/Gruul. It's not optimal but it's certainly not out of the question I think.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Blizzard uses the new ingame voice client even for Classic afaik.
    Not the current voice chat, the original one. The one people seem to ignore was its own major patch while they deride the selfie patch of WoD.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_2.2.0
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Not the current voice chat, the original one. The one people seem to ignore was its own major patch while they deride the selfie patch of WoD.
    I got the reference, but the modern voice chat is still being used, no memes repeating.

    And quite frankly, during 2.2 people were still busy progressing, while during 6.1, people were sitting in their garrison.

  20. #60
    Even if every boss was pre-nerf and all of the talents and spells were in 2.0, all of the TBC content would still be easy af and steamrolled within 1 week.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    Classic's overnerfed state gets allways compared to early Vanilla.

    Yes of course people play much better now, because Classic draw all those mythic raiders away from the game and thats the reason why the raids are cleared with green geared new players :> Its for sure not the overnerfed patch version they took for the start of classic. Its all pure player skill from the current playerbase.
    Dude, just stop. This whole argument about using 1.12 as a base and that's why classic is so piss easy doesn't work anymore, now that AQ is out too and it got completely roflstomped as well. Even Naxx is gonna get cleared within 2-3 hours after release.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •