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  1. #41
    Arthas gave the kingdom to Kul'tazad. so he is the rightful ruler not Calia.
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  2. #42
    Pandaren Monk Redroniksre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    But she should, since she's the rightful heir to the throne of Lordaeron.
    Lordaeron is dead, it died when Arthas destroyed it in WC3. Is she the rightful heir to Lordaeron? I suppose, though she was never in line for it. Are the Forsaken former citizens of Lordaeron? Yes. But Lordaeron does not exist anymore, so neither of those facts mean anything. I am staunchly against Calia being a leader, and advisor sure, but not in any way a leader. The Forsaken race fantasy has always been about being the least ethical race, willing to do all sorts of terrible shit in order to gain an advantage.

    Having Calia lead them would just water them down into being a human with less skin faction. And god knows the most boring race also has some of the most boring history to them.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasaru View Post
    Neither of them belong in the Horde, especially not Calia.
    By that sense (?) then neither do any of the Undead. Shut up

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-08-22 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Received Infraction

  4. #44
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Are you being serious right now? Why should Anduin rule Stormwind, then? Just because he's a Wrynn and Varian's son?
    Ya who cares if shes a Menethil. Lordaeron and its people were killed by her brother. There is no Lordaeron anymore, just the Forsaken.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    By that sense (?) then neither do any of the Undead. Shut up
    She's not undead, she's this fake lightforged crap undead.

  5. #45
    Lordaeron is not dead. Did you guys not play the Forsaken Silverpine Forest questline? Sylvanas literally tells the player that Lordaeron is not dead, but belongs to the Forsaken, the founders of the kingdom (she even says "this kingdom", which means Lordaeron is very much present).

    If anything, now that Sylvanas is gone the Forsaken can finally reembrace their former humanity, after they were led astray by the Lich Queen for so long. Rekindling their connection with Lordaeron and the Alliance is an obvious development, hence why Calia MENETHIL came into the picture.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    What if Valeera assassinates Tyrande? Is that not enough proof for her to be accepted into the Horde?
    She won't do this, and if she does we'll never hear the end of it. The shitstorm that's gonna cause will make the burning of Teldrassil seem like a small campfire.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't really mind Calia, but I don't understand why she's gotten a new model. She didn't do much during BFA, and I'm not sure she'll do much in Shadowlands. At least give Shandris and Rokhan a new model, they're in dire need of one.

  7. #47
    Well, the Forsaken are part of the Horde. Calia is soon to be queen of the Forsaken. You do the math.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    I don't really mind Calia, but I don't understand why she's gotten a new model. She didn't do much during BFA, and I'm not sure she'll do much in Shadowlands. At least give Shandris and Rokhan a new model, they're in dire need of one.
    Kinda tangential to this thought:
    I have a question that relates to Calia and her place with the Forsaken for anyone who has made the Forsaken their race of choice:

    Does anyone who mains an Undead ever get mad that their main heroes and representatives almost always LOOK LIKE some other race?

    Sylvanas has always been either a Night Elf or her ultra-fuckable pin-up Barbie mode, to the more reasonable Dead High Elf model she has, which is at least sporting some badass armor that makes sense, unlike the bra and panty set she was wearing. Nathanos couldn't get a real chad body back fast enough cause god forbid he looks like the rest of the undead since he's got to be Sylvanas's arm candy and now Calia is ultra-fuckable marble light forged Barbie. (With a really cool priest type get up that I wish the rest of us who main priests could get.)

    Does it bother anyone, maybe targeting RPers here, that you can't get a decent faction hero who has an ultra-unique look for your race? Like the heroes and racial leaders of most of the races have at least one badass, "oversized" hero model with a truly unique look and Forsaken just get completely well..forsaken. Shit, even Goblins have Gallywix and Gazlowe.

    I feel like the fact that the Forsaken (as in they are visibly of the Forsaken race) don't have any baller "super unique" NPCS is kinda regrettable. Lillian Voss and Alonsus Faol are both great characters, but they could really use the treatment that Valeera, Saurfang, etc have gotten due to their status as "hero npcs" of the Forsaken. Make them a little taller, give them a unique look or something. And quit making all the "Forsaken" representatives look like some other race, IMO.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahkesis View Post
    Kinda tangential to this thought:
    I have a question that relates to Calia and her place with the Forsaken for anyone who has made the Forsaken their race of choice:

    Does anyone who mains an Undead ever get mad that their main heroes and representatives almost always LOOK LIKE some other race?

    Sylvanas has always been either a Night Elf or her ultra-fuckable pin-up Barbie mode, to the more reasonable Dead High Elf model she has, which is at least sporting some badass armor that makes sense, unlike the bra and panty set she was wearing. Nathanos couldn't get a real chad body back fast enough cause god forbid he looks like the rest of the undead since he's got to be Sylvanas's arm candy and now Calia is ultra-fuckable marble light forged Barbie. (With a really cool priest type get up that I wish the rest of us who main priests could get.)

    Does it bother anyone, maybe targeting RPers here, that you can't get a decent faction hero who has an ultra-unique look for your race? Like the heroes and racial leaders of most of the races have at least one badass, "oversized" hero model with a truly unique look and Forsaken just get completely well..forsaken. Shit, even Goblins have Gallywix and Gazlowe.

    I feel like the fact that the Forsaken (as in they are visibly of the Forsaken race) don't have any baller "super unique" NPCS is kinda regrettable. Lillian Voss and Alonsus Faol are both great characters, but they could really use the treatment that Valeera, Saurfang, etc have gotten due to their status as "hero npcs" of the Forsaken. Make them a little taller, give them a unique look or something. And quit making all the "Forsaken" representatives look like some other race, IMO.
    I'm not a Forsaken player, but I definitely understand where you're coming from. Especially Sylvanas (pre legion) looked like a blowup doll instead of an undead elf.

  10. #50
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I don't see her fighting for the horde. I see her fighting for the Forsaken though.
    I mean, but if you think about it Sylvanas was an Elf, what did she know about the plight of the Forsaken? She just used them.
    Calia actually is from the same race and actually cares about them. Animations and type of undead are criticisms you could hand to Sylvanas as their leader, but you probably didn't.

    Maybe she doesn't fit the horde, cause she is more righteous than what is usual, but she is a great ally of the Forsaken. Someone who actually cares about them. I actually like that. I like they are getting a redemption arc and some much needed relief.
    It's not just animations. The Forsaken was a cult for Sylvanas pretty much. Their farewells are Victory for Sylvanas! and Dark Lady watch over you! She has her statue in Brill and it seems like 80% of Forsaken are mad scientist. All that has to go with Calia in charge.

    As for rightous or not....that hardly has anything to do with it. Quite frankly the Forsaken don't fit the Horde either. Never did. As the name implies, they are a horde. A group of spiritual people connected by their shamanistic traditions. That works for Orcs, Tauren, Trolls and Ogres. The goblins are kinda different, but they have been providing the Horde with tech for decades. The Forsaken don't fit, and neither do the Blood Elves, for that matter. Even the Hojin Pandaren are closer to what the Horde actually is And lo and behold, they joined the Horde because they wanted to, not because they had to.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    Why would the Forsaken welcome anyone bearing the name Menethil? Especially some fake light undead that knows nothing of what they have been through.
    go read Before the Storm and inform yourself

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Calia is the rightful queen of Lordaeron and final scion of the famous House Menethil, the family that ruled Lordaeron for over 3000 years. I thought the Forsaken prided themselves on being the true citizens of Lordaeron? I am sure they will welcome Calia Menethil.
    This exemplifies, for me, why Calia sucks and by extension alot of the Alliance. The lore reliance on governance via royals families.

    The destruction of Lordaeron through the spectacular failure of the the Menthil line, the citizens of Lordaeron being mindlessly bound to Arthas, losing that connection, becoming the Forsaken all while regaining their individualism/building a new identity-society WAS one of the most compelling stories in this game. Recent events with Sylvanas haven't totally torpedoed that but if Calia was to be shoved into the Horde it would. If Calia ends up being a way to create an undead faction (hand waving away DKs) for the Alliance be they loyal Lodaeronians(?) or some new "light undead" that will reduce the Forsaken's unique place in the game but it would be better than the alternative of Calia in the Horde. Calia as Forsaken leader based on a tenuous connection to who the Forsaken were in life not what they have made themselves since WoW began would be a real gut punch.
    Last edited by ChairmanKaga; 2020-08-22 at 01:23 AM.

  13. #53
    How about an arc where Calia has to prove herself to the undead in order to be accepted as rightful heir to Lordaeron?

    Yea, that type of story has been done to death but so has every little thing in wow's lore. But it'd at least establish her as a character that makes sense.

    But no, this is Danuser's writing we're talking about. She'll be worshipped as this all loving all caring (with a little tiny hint of a dark side to her! Oooo the light works in mysterious ways) leader who'll help get the disgusting, repulsive, evil undead the thing they have always desired: to be loved and accepted.

    These idiots who get their politics from Reddit and Twitter can't stop comparing hideous monsters to the oppressed and shunned, can't they?

  14. #54
    I still don't understand why people keep bringing up Arthas as a reason why the Forsaken should hate Calia. Is there not a memorial to King Terenas Menethil right at the entrance to Undercity, in which it is written that the father should not be held accountable for the actions of the son? If the answer is Yes, then in the same vein the Forsaken would not hold Calia accountable for the crimes of her brother.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  15. #55
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Change the target to Jaina and we have a deal.
    Ita not like if tyrande is dead we are missing much?

  16. #56
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auberdeen View Post
    go read Before the Storm and inform yourself
    No thanks i don't read crap.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    It's not just animations. The Forsaken was a cult for Sylvanas pretty much. Their farewells are Victory for Sylvanas! and Dark Lady watch over you! She has her statue in Brill and it seems like 80% of Forsaken are mad scientist. All that has to go with Calia in charge.

    As for rightous or not....that hardly has anything to do with it. Quite frankly the Forsaken don't fit the Horde either. Never did. As the name implies, they are a horde. A group of spiritual people connected by their shamanistic traditions. That works for Orcs, Tauren, Trolls and Ogres. The goblins are kinda different, but they have been providing the Horde with tech for decades. The Forsaken don't fit, and neither do the Blood Elves, for that matter. Even the Hojin Pandaren are closer to what the Horde actually is And lo and behold, they joined the Horde because they wanted to, not because they had to.
    Its weird.. this sylvanas story they were pushing and eventually pushing it so she has become a pure villain.. was a weird move imo.

    Looking at her statue, her status, her story for 15 years onky to become some villain. Feels like all those years we cared about her and her undercity only to know she never cared.. back a stab in the back.

    Just a weird story imo.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    No thanks i don't read crap.
    How would you know its crap if you didn't read it? Judging a book by its cover, are we?

    Tbth, it wasn't my favorite book, but reading the books AND playing the game provide all sorts of easter eggs that are completely lost on players who don't read the books. These little eggs provide a deeper immersion for an RP'r, more shit-eating grins for the casual quest readers and NPC enthusiasts, and just a more thoughtful story. Sapphronetta Flivvers the gnome, and her goblin boo forced into making azerite weapons and what happens to them, followed by their apperance in BfA was fucking great imo.

    I know reading isn't cool etc, but idk smoke something or rip a few shots, kick your feet up and try to dive in, my guess you'll be on page 50 before you know it. Or asleep.

  19. #59
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahkesis View Post
    Kinda tangential to this thought:
    I have a question that relates to Calia and her place with the Forsaken for anyone who has made the Forsaken their race of choice:

    Does anyone who mains an Undead ever get mad that their main heroes and representatives almost always LOOK LIKE some other race?.
    fuck yes, one of the reasons i don't like playing a forsaken, there is no one in their leadership who look like then, not even nathanos as sylvanas second hand

    and calia is even worse than Sylvanas cause she doesn't even look dead, she look like a lighforged draenei rofl

    if she had a least a dead model like ours, and was cast out by the alliance, like any forsaken, then i would think about her leading something.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2020-08-22 at 04:38 AM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    It's not just animations. The Forsaken was a cult for Sylvanas pretty much. Their farewells are Victory for Sylvanas! and Dark Lady watch over you! She has her statue in Brill and it seems like 80% of Forsaken are mad scientist. All that has to go with Calia in charge.

    As for rightous or not....that hardly has anything to do with it. Quite frankly the Forsaken don't fit the Horde either. Never did. As the name implies, they are a horde. A group of spiritual people connected by their shamanistic traditions. That works for Orcs, Tauren, Trolls and Ogres. The goblins are kinda different, but they have been providing the Horde with tech for decades. The Forsaken don't fit, and neither do the Blood Elves, for that matter. Even the Hojin Pandaren are closer to what the Horde actually is And lo and behold, they joined the Horde because they wanted to, not because they had to.
    I agree, especially the part of forsaken and belves not fitting. But, the Sylvanas boat has sailed away and it's time for someone else because the Forsaken are a playable race and they can't get be removed.

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