Poll: What do you think?

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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Hunter's Mark is unpruned in Shadowlands as below.

    It is on the GCD, meaning it cannot be transparently macroed into other abilities. In its current beta form Hunters will need to spend a GCD on every primary target throughout the expansion and all Hunter single-target abilities will be balanced assuming this 5% debuff is applied.

    Code:
    Hunter's Mark
    60 yd range
    Instant
    Requires Hunter
    Requires level 7
    Apply Hunter's Mark to the target, increasing all damage you deal to the marked 
    target by 5%. The target can always be seen and tracked by the Hunter.
    
    Only one Hunter's Mark can be applied at a time.

    How do you feel about this?
    Does this apply to Survival? If not I could care less as I only play Melee DPS.

  2. #82
    It's not really about the number of buttons, certainly not in the core priority anyway. They have a mandate to unprune and that's exactly what they did.

    They only made huge mistakes on two classes, Shaman and Hunter, with Healing Stream Totem, Windfury Totem, and Hunter's Mark. Those should be removed or substantially changed. The rest are nonsensical traps for inexperienced players likely to drive degraded emergent gameplay (giving frost mages fireball, BM arcane shot, etc), utility/flavor, or great like Kill Shot.

    @schwank05: Yes, survival too.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    Does this apply to Survival? If not I could care less as I only play Melee DPS.
    Yes SV hunters also have Hunter's Mark. It is a bit amusing marking the target far away only to engage them in melee combat. As I don't think HM is going anywhere this expansion, I hope blizz introduces new fun glyphs for Hunters mark, maybe a skull and crossbones a "Kill this" text sign. If we are to endure HM for an expansion then at least lets make the hunter's mark cosmetically interesting.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Bisque View Post
    Yes SV hunters also have Hunter's Mark. It is a bit amusing marking the target far away only to engage them in melee combat. As I don't think HM is going anywhere this expansion, I hope blizz introduces new fun glyphs for Hunters mark, maybe a skull and crossbones a "Kill this" text sign. If we are to endure HM for an expansion then at least lets make the hunter's mark cosmetically interesting.
    So what is the issue is it not a DPS buff? why is everyone all pissed about a damage Boost?

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    So what is the issue is it not a DPS buff? why is everyone all pissed about a damage Boost?
    1. It does nothing other being a small and stupid damage buff. It doesn't synergize with anything.
    2. One extra button because why the fuck not? The game can still be played with only two hands and 10 fingers.
    3. It's stupid as hell to use in aoe situations because you have to keep applying it to your main target when you switch.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    1. It does nothing other being a small and stupid damage buff. It doesn't synergize with anything.
    2. One extra button because why the fuck not? The game can still be played with only two hands and 10 fingers.
    3. It's stupid as hell to use in aoe situations because you have to keep applying it to your main target when you switch.
    I guess I don't see an issue I love Survival, but it could use another button honestly.

  7. #87
    Whats the problem? I dont see it.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    So what is the issue is it not a DPS buff? why is everyone all pissed about a damage Boost?
    Because most likely hunter damage will be balanced around you keeping up Hunter's mark all the time or you will be forever doing 5% less dps then you can do.

    It is another button to press but it is not very interesting or interactive, feels more like "button for the sake of pressing a button".

    I believe that it can't be macored with other abilties to automatically apply the hunter's mark, so you will have to apply each and every time you want to do maximum dps.


    As for pissed, idk.... I would say I am more "meh" with HM returning.

  9. #89
    Yep, you will need to use Hunter's Mark on every non-AE pull this entire expansion. It's a button that I, and many hunters, don't find fun to press because it does nothing but allow you to do your full damage. It doesn't do any damage itself or have any synergies. It's just busywork, adding a GCD to every single target you attack for the next 2 years.

    Right, it's on the GCD so it cannot be macroed into other abilities.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    Whats the problem? I dont see it.
    I'm with you on this one I don't get where this is a major issue I mean there are far worse things that have been done to classes. I mean look how much they Fucked DK's up after Wrath.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I'm with you on this one I don't get where this is a major issue I mean there are far worse things that have been done to classes. I mean look how much they Fucked DK's up after Wrath.

    • Hunters Mark is calculated in general DPS balance of Hunters making it mandatory cast.
    • Its on 1s GCD.
    • This means that in AOE fights you will have to mark tanky-long living mob to make it somewhat optimal, avoiding marking squishy mobs as you wont get most of Hunters Mark.
    • This also means that you are wasting damage if you primary attack ANY other mob in AoE fights that is not your marked target.
      This will do 105% damage to marked mob and 100% of your cleave/AoE to other mobs in the fight.
      So, if you mark tanky mob, but actually primary attack priority mob you will do 100% of your damage to priority mob and +5% of your cleave/AoE damage to marked mob, again making it somewhat sub-optimal.
    • Further, by the looks of it, in order to min-max, you will have to cast Hunters Mark on EVERY new mob that you attack in AoE, meaning more GCDs spent on recasting Hunters Mark.

    Theres probably more, these are the reasons/issues just from the top of my mind.
    It wont be as big issue in raids as bosses are where most of things count, but this makes hunters.. really clunky in Mythic+ where primary focus is pack pulling and burning them down.
    So, while Fury, or better yet Windwalker which also have 5% DPS buff applying passively, or most of other melees (Feral excluded) dont have any mandatory upkeep buffs, hunters have it. And its on GCD.

    As main Survival hunter with competitive progress in last 2 expansions.. Honestly, I really dont see ANY reasons to bring Survival in place of BM in any content sadly. Were literally down to being Meme spec.
    In addition, Hunters Mark further complicates already clunky spec. Survival got 300% Focus regen nerf on Beta, so currently you are more focused on focus regen than anything else. Between Mongoose Fury uptime and burn window, having to re-cast Hunters Mark with a GCD on ANY new target that we attack means that you will have less time to cast Mongoose Bite inside burn window or Kill Command as generator. Not to mention Bomb weaving if you opt out for Wildfire infusion, which will, probably be go-to talent due to Pheromone Bombs and more Kill Command resets.

    TL;DR - The issue here is that Hunters Mark is calculated in Hunters DPS balancing making it mandatory cast, but it is on GCD and it marks only 1 target forcing us to either mark tank mobs but attack primary target making it somewhat sub-optimal or re-cast it on every new mob in cleave/AoE, spending GCD on it.
    Last edited by Gurg; 2020-08-24 at 08:19 PM.

  12. #92
    In regards to the nerfed SV hunter focus regen, I swore I read somewhere that the slow focus regen was a bug and would be fixed in the next patch-if that is the case I hope that is true.

    Back to HM, I remember in one expansion (Panda one maybe...) I think it was arcane shot or one of one of the other shots that all 3 specs shared, that automatically applied HM, I wonder why blizz didn't go that route when they brought HM back.

  13. #93
    Survival regen is supposed to be exactly the same as in 8.0, 5/sec. Marks is buffed from 3/s to 5/s, and BM remains 10/s.

    It generally won't be optimal to use HM in AE, unless there's a high-health guy in the pull that you'll primary-target while AEing the rest.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurg View Post
    • Hunters Mark is calculated in general DPS balance of Hunters making it mandatory cast.
    • Its on 1s GCD.
    • This means that in AOE fights you will have to mark tanky-long living mob to make it somewhat optimal, avoiding marking squishy mobs as you wont get most of Hunters Mark.
    • This also means that you are wasting damage if you primary attack ANY other mob in AoE fights that is not your marked target.
      This will do 105% damage to marked mob and 100% of your cleave/AoE to other mobs in the fight.
      So, if you mark tanky mob, but actually primary attack priority mob you will do 100% of your damage to priority mob and +5% of your cleave/AoE damage to marked mob, again making it somewhat sub-optimal.
    • Further, by the looks of it, in order to min-max, you will have to cast Hunters Mark on EVERY new mob that you attack in AoE, meaning more GCDs spent on recasting Hunters Mark.

    Theres probably more, these are the reasons/issues just from the top of my mind.
    It wont be as big issue in raids as bosses are where most of things count, but this makes hunters.. really clunky in Mythic+ where primary focus is pack pulling and burning them down.
    So, while Fury, or better yet Windwalker which also have 5% DPS buff applying passively, or most of other melees (Feral excluded) dont have any mandatory upkeep buffs, hunters have it. And its on GCD.

    As main Survival hunter with competitive progress in last 2 expansions.. Honestly, I really dont see ANY reasons to bring Survival in place of BM in any content sadly. Were literally down to being Meme spec.
    In addition, Hunters Mark further complicates already clunky spec. Survival got 300% Focus regen nerf on Beta, so currently you are more focused on focus regen than anything else. Between Mongoose Fury uptime and burn window, having to re-cast Hunters Mark with a GCD on ANY new target that we attack means that you will have less time to cast Mongoose Bite inside burn window or Kill Command as generator. Not to mention Bomb weaving if you opt out for Wildfire infusion, which will, probably be go-to talent due to Pheromone Bombs and more Kill Command resets.

    TL;DR - The issue here is that Hunters Mark is calculated in Hunters DPS balancing making it mandatory cast, but it is on GCD and it marks only 1 target forcing us to either mark tank mobs but attack primary target making it somewhat sub-optimal or re-cast it on every new mob in cleave/AoE, spending GCD on it.
    I guess I have never been in a situation where I was benched for another class/ spec, as it stands now most guilds I have run with have enough trouble getting 15 people to show up for Normal/ Heroic let alone 20 for Mythic raiding so I am not worried Ill play the classes I enjoy rather than worry about some absurd Meta set by the top 1% of players.

  15. #95
    I would suggest focusing more on whether you enjoy the Hunter's Mark gameplay, and why you do (or don't) enjoy it, than comparisons with other classes. Expect to see lots of balance changes as we get closer to release, the numbers will change, but the gameplay won't.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    I would suggest focusing more on whether you enjoy the Hunter's Mark gameplay, and why you do (or don't) enjoy it, than comparisons with other classes. Expect to see lots of balance changes as we get closer to release, the numbers will change, but the gameplay won't.
    Personally I think the problem with Hunter's mark is that no matter how true it is that 99% of players won't be perfectly optimal 5% damage is still a significant chunk of damage on single-target, meaning that unless you want ot drag up the spellbook before each encounter you will feel obligated ot keep this ability on your hotbar at all times. And while a single ability isnt that much there are already so many niche abilities a player should be expected to keep on their hotbar already.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  17. #97
    Hunter's Mark is a redundancy that is definitely not needed in PvE. Just drop the damage buff from it. Make it useful in PvP only by simply preventing stealth. If it absolutely must exist in PvE (which is a nonsensical argument because it has no basis - nothing is a "must" in this game), then just make it to be passively applied from hunter's single target attacks. As it is now, this ability has little to no mathematical basis of existance on anything that will not live past 20 globals. It is a worse iteration of the Curse of Elements from Vanilla warlocks, because it affects hunters only.
    There are several hunter abilities I really dislike in Shadowlands and think of them being counter productive. Hunter's mark is a proud #2 on that list. The only thing worse is Soulforge Embers (SE) ability. And it is almost certain that they will balance AoE around SE (as it is one of the few uncapped AoE abilities in the game), making hunters much less effective during general tank movement, mythic+ affixes avoidance and different mob mechanics. That is on top of it being extremely clunky to use, costing 2 gcd to set up and being basically a worse iteration of a Flame Strike from Vanilla mages.

  18. #98
    It's such an absolutely dull and uninteresting ability to use. I'd prefer they made it irrelevant to PVE.

  19. #99
    Latest change:

    Hunter's Mark
    60 yd range
    Instant 20 sec cooldown
    Requires Hunter
    Requires level 7
    Apply Hunter's Mark to the target, increasing all damage you deal to the marked target by 5%. The target can always be seen and tracked by the Hunter.

    Only one Hunter's Mark can be applied at a time.

    The cooldown of Hunter's Mark is reset if the target dies.

    Amazingly, they managed to make it worse. And on the very same day they said this:

    We’ve heard clear feedback that incurring a global cooldown to do nothing but enhance subsequent button presses is unsatisfying, and we agree. While our goal remains making it so that when abilities are on the global cooldown, they feel compelling as standalone actions, in the meantime we want to avoid hindering smooth combat rotations.
    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...n-gcd/630189/1
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2020-09-03 at 12:19 AM.

  20. #100
    I really can't fathom why Blizzard thought that adding a 20sec cooldown to hunter's mark would be a good fix for the problems people had with it.

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