9.0 General Discussion

[Yarathir]

Only instead of a crown, this time it's a chainmail bikini. You know, so she can control the mindless scourge.

Her fanboys?

[Jamie081]

"My immersion is broken cause of bad zone design"

It's almost like a planet, or landscape can be full of stupid areas...

Just like the real world.

People once again use wrong words to describe things they don't like. Like calling "toxic" whoever disagrees with you.

That's one funny bit there.

I'm not terribly sure how a zone populated by winged beings having outposts and places high up is breaking your "immershun". Neither I can understand this about Maldraxxus, which is basically a world-wide warzone with parts being literally nuked by magics and necropoli crashing to the ground - what, that supposed to be as accessible as your local grocery store?

Ardenweald is basically a wild forest with untouched nature and Revendreth has a huge castle on a cliff.

But I guess because denizens did not layer ground highways for players everywhere, it means "immersion bad".

Le sigh.

I had no idea the bootlicking brigade would get their jimmies in a rustle because I pointed out that zones being designed like a congested theme-park aren't nice. 'Wrong words', Grow up.

EDIT: Just saw the Gamescom animated short announcement. Winter Queen hype!

[Sarethion]

We're getting an animated series, boys!

https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/1297927025089556481

[Jamie081]

We're getting an animated series, boys!

https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/1297927025089556481

I don't think I'm picking Night Fae but I'm super excited to see the Winter Queen developed. She looks glorious. Also can't wait for Draka.

[Sarethion]

I don't think I'm picking Night Fae but I'm super excited to see the Winter Queen developed. She looks glorious. Also can't wait for Draka.

I'm hyped for Uther and Kael'thas (if he appears) - what can I say, W3 story nostalgia never dies

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

At 0:13 I think we see Garrosh in Revendreth. My theory is he couldn't be redeemed by them so he eventually went to the Maw.

[Vasoka]

It begins.

[Hitei]

I had no idea the bootlicking brigade would get their jimmies in a rustle because I pointed out that zones being designed like a congested theme-park aren't nice. 'Wrong words', Grow up.

I'll never understand people buzzwording themepark. Congested zones are literally the exact opposite of themepark design. Themepark design with regard to environment was shit like BC/Wrath/Cata, where the majority of the zone is near-featureless, flat planes of the same texture, in between quest locations. You go from one quest area to the next and in between is lifeless nothing where if you're lucky you might see a vulture, or a shoveltusk.

Compare that to something like Azsuna, Jade Forest, or Drustvar, where instead of that featureless empty space, you have animal dens, or little paths that lead off to a small shrine or grave completely unrelated to any quest or event, or actual real terrain like ravines and hills, with rivers actually following the terrain from high points to the sea instead of going flat across the slightly bumpy pancake.

Like at least be honest. You don't care about immersion. The new zones are the immersive ones. What's been ruined is your ability to just afk and auto-run in a straight line from one thing to the next.

[Hitei]

We're getting an animated series, boys!

https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/1297927025089556481

Probably better quality:

[spleen1015]

I agree with @Hitei. Zone design and story were 2 of the best parts of BfA. I loved it and I am really looking forward to Shadowlands.

[Sondrelk]

I'll never understand people buzzwording themepark. Congested zones are literally the exact opposite of theme park design. Themepark design with regard to environment was shit like BC/Wrath/Cata, where the majority of the zone is near-featureless, flat planes of the same texture, inbetween quest locations. You go from one quest area to the next and inbetwen is lifeless nothing where if you're lucky you might see a vulture, or a shoveltusk.

Compare that to something like Azsuna, Jade Forest, or Drustvar, where instead of that featureless empty space, you have animal dens, or little paths that lead off to a small shrine or grave completely unrelated to any quest or event, or actual real terrain like ravines and hills, with rivers actually following the terrain from high points to the sea instead of going flat across the slightly bumpy pancake.

Like at least be honest. You don't care about immersion. The new zones are the immersive ones. What's been ruined is your ability to just afk and auto-run in a straight line from one thing to the next.

When we mention theme-park design in regards to Legion it is because the zones are designed in such a way that you get a few small flavorful areas crammed right next to eachother. This works when the idea is solely to conserve space, but ends up looking and feeling pretty bad to go through when you simply want to cut across something. This gets even worse with flying.

On the other end you have the Cata zone design, which could also in theory be called theme-park since you have many small questing areas padded out with large expanses of nothing.

Ideally a zone should find a happy medium. BfA did this pretty well, managing to find the right areas to place some open areas or extra roads to ensure at least some ambient areas between the actually important ones.

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I agree with @Hitei. Zone design and story were 2 of the best parts of BfA. I loved it and I am really looking forward to Shadowlands.

BfA zone design was pretty much as good as it gets. All it could have done better is have some more variety, which is hard to blame it for considering where it takes place.

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Really excited for the Afterlives animations, though I somehow doubt that any will wow me as much as the Jaina Warbringer one did for BfA. Though I would hope ot be pleasantly surprised, the Uther one looks like it will be especially nice visually.

[Edward Wu]

We're getting an animated series, boys!

https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/1297927025089556481

Fuck... I didn't know this would sell me on the expansion above all else. I got goosebumps watching this, and it's just the teaser.

Time to prep for SL.

[Vasoka]

100% release date at Gamescom.

[Nagawithlegs]

Garry?

[Sondrelk]

[img]

Garry?

Certainly seems like it, though I feel more likely just as an easter egg.

[Jamie081]

I'll never understand people buzzwording themepark. Congested zones are literally the exact opposite of themepark design. Themepark design with regard to environment was shit like BC/Wrath/Cata, where the majority of the zone is near-featureless, flat planes of the same texture, in between quest locations. You go from one quest area to the next and in between is lifeless nothing where if you're lucky you might see a vulture, or a shoveltusk.

Compare that to something like Azsuna, Jade Forest, or Drustvar, where instead of that featureless empty space, you have animal dens, or little paths that lead off to a small shrine or grave completely unrelated to any quest or event, or actual real terrain like ravines and hills, with rivers actually following the terrain from high points to the sea instead of going flat across the slightly bumpy pancake.

Like at least be honest. You don't care about immersion. The new zones are the immersive ones. What's been ruined is your ability to just afk and auto-run in a straight line from one thing to the next.

Jade Forest and Drustvar are zones I enjoyed. I've said before that BFA zones were an improvement over Legion zones generally. I disliked areas such as Stormheim, Highmountain and Tanaan Jungle. Blizzard acknowledged Legion zones to be theme-park in nature and said they have taken the critique on board for future zone design.

I'm being completely honest. I don't even know about the new zones yet because I don't have beta, I just said I hope they aren't congested or theme-park-like in that there's no empty space and there are just hubs and bases connected by paths. Tanaan felt like a zone of chores and sub-areas, as did many of the Legion zones. I also enjoyed Vol'Dun because it nailed the desert wastes. Zandalar, while being interesting to traverse, felt entirely natural and the sights were gorgeous.

I feel like you and those I quoted are completely misinterpreting what I said, exaggerating my opinion and just jumping to a conclusion which isn't even mine. Your remark about AFKing and flying in a straight line is a perfect example. You're telling me you know what I actually think, when you're just getting it wrong.

[Dracullus]

Garrosh fits as example of character that is stupid enough to fail Revendreth and go to Maw.

[Blayze]

Ages ago, I guessed this series would focus on the four existing named lore characters (Uther, etc) tied to the Covenants.

I thought it'd be called Deathbringers, though.

[Hitei]

Jade Forest and Drustvar are zones I enjoyed. I've said before that BFA zones were an improvement over Legion zones generally. I disliked areas such as Stormheim, Highmountain and Tanaan Jungle. Blizzard acknowledged Legion zones to be theme-park in nature and said they have taken the critique on board for future zone design.

I'm being completely honest. I don't even know about the new zones yet because I don't have beta, I just said I hope they aren't congested or theme-park-like in that there's no empty space and there are just hubs and bases connected by paths. Tanaan felt like a zone of chores and sub-areas, as did many of the Legion zones. I also enjoyed Vol'Dun because it nailed the desert wastes. Zandalar, while being interesting to traverse, felt entirely natural and the sights were gorgeous.

I feel like you and those I quoted are completely misinterpreting what I said, exaggerating my opinion and just jumping to a conclusion which isn't even mine. Your remark about AFKing and flying in a straight line is a perfect example.

Open zones being open is fine. the problem is trying to apply that open space to zones where it doesn't fit. Highmountain should be craggy and full of cliffs and valleys and require going the long way around often, because that's what mountains are. When you take that away you completely remove the immersive aspect of it being mountainous. Like Storm Peaks, where the music is fine, but the entire zone being made up of wide open, huge plateaus means that the only part which actually feels like a mountain peak is Thorim's throne and Frosthold.

There is nothing worse than something like Elywnn forest. A zone that is more like an orchard than a forest because of how open and clean it is, and honestly I'd say Tanaan's design problem was being too open and cut down the middle. They should have made the entire thing feel more like the Bleeding Hollow section to the southwest. Very few zones should feel like a walk in the park, which is what many early more open zones feel like.

[Jamie081]

Open zones being open is fine. the problem is trying to apply that open space to zones where it doesn't fit. Highmountain should be craggy and full of cliffs and valleys and require going the long way around often, because that's what mountains are. When you take that away you completely remove the immersive aspect of it being mountainous. Like Storm Peaks, where the music is fine, but the entire zone being made up of wide open, huge plateaus means that the only part which actually feels like a mountain peak is Thorim's throne and Frosthold.

There is nothing worse than something like Elywnn forest. A zone that is more like an orchard than a forest because of how open and clean it is, and honestly I'd say Tanaan's design problem was being too open and cut down the middle. They should have made the entire thing feel more like the Bleeding Hollow section to the southwest. Very few zones should feel like a walk in the park, which is what many early more open zones feel like.

Oh I agree with Elwynn. It holds a special place in my heart and many others moreso because of the nostalgia and how it's a typical pretty green fantasy forest. It's definitely boring to travel through.

I don't want zones to be a walk in the park at all. I loved Suramar city because of the constant danger and the ability to lose your disguise. When I talk about claustrophobia I usually mean it in the context of mob density, which has definitely increased over the last few expansions.

With the new AOE cap, I wonder if mob density in the open world might decrease? Do you think it's had an impact? It just popped into my head since M+ are now meant to be less condensed with mobs.