9.0 General Discussion

[Cosmic Janitor]

It is also possible, though less likely that we will have a Warbringers situation, where some of them release quickly, and then one or more is held back for a specific in-game event.

It made sense in BfA because of the content and the spoiler implications for the pre-event. I don't see it being held back this time, as the 4 shown people don't seem to be playing a role in the event. Unless Nathanos dies at the hands of evil-Uther.

[Sondrelk]

It made sense in BfA because of the content and the spoiler implications for the pre-event. I don't see it being held back this time, as the 4 shown people don't seem to be playing a role in the event. Unless Nathanos dies at the hands of evil-Uther.

The only one I could see it being the case for is the Uther one, to tie in to a currently unknown quest in hte pre-patch. Though that being said I do agree it is a wild shot in the dark compared to the Sylvanas Warbringer where it was an open secret that it would be tied to whatever pre-patch event revealed what happened to Teldrassil.

[huth]

What's not to understand?

Everything, because that's not what claustrophobia is. You muddy your argument by completely misstating it. You don't get to complain about people not understanding you when your argument doesn't make any sense.

Claustrophobia would be being stuck with 12 people in a small elevator, not with 3 mobs on a wide-open plain. 3 mobs that you can just run through, so they're not actually causing you to be limited in movement.

And the respawn rate is likely just because there's a lot of people around killing those mobs, once things quiet down it'll go far slower.

[TheFirstOnes]

I had no idea the bootlicking brigade would get their jimmies in a rustle because I pointed out that zones being designed like a congested theme-park aren't nice. 'Wrong words', Grow up.

EDIT: Just saw the Gamescom animated short announcement. Winter Queen hype!

Okay, if you wanna disregard all the counter arguments as "boot licking", then expect not to get a genuine response from anyone else next time. But, because I'm in a good mood, let me clue you in.

Just because you don't like a zone's design, that doesn't make it a "theme park". With that argument, literally every WoW zone is that then...

A "theme park". Hate travelling long distances? Hate being in cluttered spots? Well, too bad, cause WoW was always designed like this zone wise. You just don't like to put in the time going through it. Calling me a boot licker isn't going to help your issues with the zone, pal.

[therumblings]

I don't mind zones being designed differently, not every zone should be tiny and packed and not every zone should be wide and barren. Both work.

[Gaidax]

Just bake Drain Soul in baseline. They should have never brought back SB for Aff.

The whole Drain Soul and Shadow Bolt thing was down to people whining about lack of either when appropriate.

When it was Drain Soul (or Malefic Grasp, whatever it was) then everyone and their mothers were "wtf no Shadow Bolt, our precious iconic Shadow Bolt? WTF?"
And when it was Shadow Bolt it was "WTF no drains? We're afflction gods dammit."

So I think current is the best option, provided they actually balance it somewhat.

[razorpax]

And Garrosh would be the bottom.

Power bottom

[gunner_recall]

So far from what I've seen and tested on PTR, what I like currently is:

Unholy and Frost DKs
Arms and Fury Wars
Ret and Prot Pallies
Enhance Shams
Outlaw and Sub Rogues
Demo and Affli Locks

What are your favorite 9.0 specs looking like? What do you think still needs work to convince you it's cool?

It's far from perfect but the revamped arcane mage feels really REALLY good to play. Making touch of the magi an AoE button plus making it generate 4 arcane charges is great. Fewer buttons usually isn't a good thing but when it takes 20 seconds to set up your opener, yeah...it's not a good time. So consolidating some of these abilities for mages specifically is a good move. Haven't tried out frost or fire yet but they didn't get a whole lot of changes but hopefully we see them moving in the same kind of direction as arcane, where more abilities are rolled together and I'm not spending a good chunk of the fight just setting up cds.

Honestly, the biggest QoL change they could have made was getting rid of RoP but making it so it's automatically dropped when using my big dick dps button is probably the next best thing.



I can't comment on anything else because I don't play those other classes.

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Power bottom

Garrosh bottom Draka top

[razorpax]

I'm a tankadin. Have been one since 3.0 when I changed from spriest and never looked back. Protection seems to be in a decent spot but I don't like how weak Divine Toll is in ST (compared to being MONSTROUS in large AoE) or that the Steward has turned out to be solid defensive utility for almost every class except for Paladins. I just have to wonder if I should be playing Necrolords but I just don't like that theme for my paladin, even though Mograine is awesome.

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I thought more like a forced roommate situation. Like in a certain wing at Torghast, the Jailer has forced Arthas and Garrosh to live together.

And ofc Garrosh is a bottom. Did you see the War Crimes cover? He is a BDSM sub.

Divine toll is designed as an aoe ability

I think necroLord is probably the best choice but idk shit about the venthyr ability

I wanna go Kyrian on my monk because venthyr gear was a let down but....fallen order is tooo good

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It's far from perfect but the revamped arcane mage feels really REALLY good to play. Making touch of the magi an AoE button plus making it generate 4 arcane charges is great. Fewer buttons usually isn't a good thing but when it takes 20 seconds to set up your opener, yeah...it's not a good time. So consolidating some of these abilities for mages specifically is a good move. Haven't tried out frost or fire yet but they didn't get a whole lot of changes but hopefully we see them moving in the same kind of direction as arcane, where more abilities are rolled together and I'm not spending a good chunk of the fight just setting up cds.

Honestly, the biggest QoL change they could have made was getting rid of RoP but making it so it's automatically dropped when using my big dick dps button is probably the next best thing.



I can't comment on anything else because I don't play those other classes.

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Garrosh bottom Draka top

If they aren’t removing it they need to make it baseline

Cooking it into CDs is weird

[gunner_recall]

If they aren’t removing it they need to make it baseline

Cooking it into CDs is weird

I don't think it should be made baseline but they should probably make that row a little more competitive.

I'm 100% for removing it, by the way. I've wanted it gone since MoP. They've never been able to make it work well but I think this is the best step they could have done outside of removing it or not making it a circle on the ground that I gotta hang around.

[DemonDays]

Okay, if you wanna disregard all the counter arguments as "boot licking", then expect not to get a genuine response from anyone else next time. But, because I'm in a good mood, let me clue you in.

Just because you don't like a zone's design, that doesn't make it a "theme park". With that argument, literally every WoW zone is that then...

A "theme park". Hate travelling long distances? Hate being in cluttered spots? Well, too bad, cause WoW was always designed like this zone wise. You just don't like to put in the time going through it. Calling me a boot licker isn't going to help your issues with the zone, pal.

WoW is the literal embodiment of a theme park MMO. Super shallow content in droves. Tightly packed play spaces. Basic classes. Heavily instanced content.

You can't run 50 yards without aggroing something anymore.

It's a pretty fair assessment to call modern WoW zones too densely packed.


We don't need every zone to be like Volduun. But we certainly need more like it.

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The whole Drain Soul and Shadow Bolt thing was down to people whining about lack of either when appropriate.

When it was Drain Soul (or Malefic Grasp, whatever it was) then everyone and their mothers were "wtf no Shadow Bolt, our precious iconic Shadow Bolt? WTF?"
And when it was Shadow Bolt it was "WTF no drains? We're afflction gods dammit."

So I think current is the best option, provided they actually balance it somewhat.

Drain Soul was disgusting in Legion.

Apply DoTs ----> Channel Drain Soul..... TOP METERS.

Our Warlock used to stand in mechanics and heal through it whilst topping meters. Like, I'm exaggerating a bit but not really.

[TheFirstOnes]

"You can't run 50 yards without aggroing something anymore."

Seems we haven't been playing the same game then lol

[TomatoBisque]

Drain Soul was disgusting in Legion.

Apply DoTs ----> Channel Drain Soul..... TOP METERS.

Our Warlock used to stand in mechanics and heal through it whilst topping meters. Like, I'm exaggerating a bit but not really.

the problem here was they decided a defensive ability (Drain Life) should be the primary filler in a spec that spends a lot of time using its filler

if Drain Soul didn't heal so much it would've been fine

[tristannarutofan]

Okay, if you wanna disregard all the counter arguments as "boot licking", then expect not to get a genuine response from anyone else next time. But, because I'm in a good mood, let me clue you in.

Just because you don't like a zone's design, that doesn't make it a "theme park". With that argument, literally every WoW zone is that then...

A "theme park". Hate travelling long distances? Hate being in cluttered spots? Well, too bad, cause WoW was always designed like this zone wise. You just don't like to put in the time going through it. Calling me a boot licker isn't going to help your issues with the zone, pal.

Not to mention bootlicking is about sucking up to fascists.

One cant argue with someone so out of it that they act like a company making a game in a way thry dont like, is oppressive

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Hasbro "if u roll a six u get to role again"

This guy :"u oppressive bastard!"

[Monster Hunter]

So far from what I've seen and tested on PTR, what I like currently is:

Unholy and Frost DKs
Arms and Fury Wars
Ret and Prot Pallies
Enhance Shams
Outlaw and Sub Rogues
Demo and Affli Locks

What are your favorite 9.0 specs looking like? What do you think still needs work to convince you it's cool?

Fore from beta
Ret pala ( the Lego's are fantastic)
Rouge outlaw/sub (the outlaw changes are mint)

And a Contraversal (maybe) pick is arcane mage which im actual think will be my main, arcane mage with touch of tha magi back + rune + necro Lord covenant is a fucking sight to behold, the burst not only is insane but it feels insane and meaty and how it should, it takes some set up but it's the only burst that feels worth the time setting up.

War is also good and dk is solid In my eyes too.

It's fairly hard on playstle and fun alone to pick a clear winner, obvs we need to see numbers tuning yet and Eod that might narrow things down, I'm not a meta slave BUT I do raid mythic at an averedge level so In need to play at least a mid tier+ class/spec

On the mage front, my notes are,

Necro Lord is just flat good. +10% spell power nothing fancy, nice model change.

Bastions abity feels like a trap, I just can't get it to even be close to the consistence for fire and arcane as necro Lord, it may work for frost, maybe but I'm a reluctant frost mage and not practised at playing it.

The night fea ability feels really clunky for all 3 specs and especialy arcane having yet another long channel ability for resource gain on top of evocation.... Just Eugh, but there may be some wierd synergy with it I'm not seeing that might make it bis for min maxes who can pull off perfect rotations.

The Venthyr one for mage is just... Idk. Seems useless, when I use it the only mobs that cast enough to use the procs often die befor casting enough nlanyway and in a boss it's hit and miss, boss abilities are wierd some are spells some not.

Necrolord to me is the stright forward way to go for mage, it adds stat buffs and a shield and a +10% spell power CD, mage allready has invis and mobility + mage stones back and other stuff that there's no need to go the other covenants for mage.

Edit Touch of magi atm is working like powered up and giving full arcane changes in beta which is heavily pumping the burst from first blast but I don't know if that's a bug or correct behaviour.

[TomatoBisque]

the venthyr conduit for mage has potential to be busted depending on what procs it, but this is numbers tuning so hard to say for sure. It gives a 10% damage buff whenever a mirror procs, which stacks up to 3 times for a 30% damage buff. This scales up to triple that value at max, which is 10 seconds of +90% damage

the Night Fae one's real problem is it requires you to be within like 15y range of the target which oftentimes isn't an option outside of M+/world content

[DemonDays]

"You can't run 50 yards without aggroing something anymore."

Seems we haven't been playing the same game then lol

Cool rebuttal bro. "lol"

WoW literally takes the "theme park" design to the extreme and foregoes player freedom. Everything is in a controlled environment and you consume content in a way Blizzard dictates.

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Not to mention bootlicking is about sucking up to fascists.

One cant argue with someone so out of it that they act like a company making a game in a way thry dont like, is oppressive

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Hasbro "if u roll a six u get to role again"

This guy :"u oppressive bastard!"

"bootlick"

behave obsequiously towards someone in order to gain favour.



Funny. I don't see fascists mentioned anywhere hey. Keep trying to re-define things to support some sort of bizarre argument though.

Valid criticism is not allowed aye?

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the problem here was they decided a defensive ability (Drain Life) should be the primary filler in a spec that spends a lot of time using its filler

if Drain Soul didn't heal so much it would've been fine

Well yeah. Obviously.

Whoever thought it was okay to front load so much into a channeled spammable ability is a moron. But then again - that describes most of the developers currently in charge of what they're trying to call "Class Design" these days.

[TheFirstOnes]

Cool rebuttal bro. "lol"

WoW literally takes the "theme park" design to the extreme and foregoes player freedom. Everything is in a controlled environment and you consume content in a way Blizzard dictates.

Oh cool, make fun of the way I type then. Jesus...

Also, no? If you really wanna argue that, then that can be taken all the way to classic, where the entire environment was "Do these raids for specific gear needed for these raids (Which doesn't even matter anymore lol), and do this PVP stuff for a specific title" and blah blah blah. Blizzard's been "dictating" content since 2004 tbh. Just because covenants exist and all, that doesn't make the zones themselves theme parks. World quests and all can be completely ignored by raiding/pvp if you want. Blizzard is not dictating that stuff for you or anyone else. Those are just options for you to do more PVE/PVP content in the game. And besides, the only "dictating" parts don't even involve the open world. It just involves Legendaries (Though, even that has freedom in its design cause of the whole SL stuff with specific stuff you can get, specific traits you can boost if you want it too, etc), and Covenants (The only real issue here, tbh. Especially with the dungeon "shortcuts", which could suck hard for M+. But those just seem like little shortcuts only the top dogs would want to do. Something that doesn't really hurt casuals tbh (But would hurt Group Finder options a ton, which sucks). Doesn't help the system won't be balanced at all, so that blows...). But, those bad things aren't even theme parkish at all, outside of MAYBE Torghast...

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"Valid criticism is not allowed aye?" You're not even providing real criticism. You're just calling something bad and not explaining why it's bad. Meanwhile, I'm trying my best to explain to you why this game isn't as "theme parkish" as you think it is.

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"Not to mention bootlicking is about sucking up to fascists." Tristan, that's not what it means at all. That's probably what it meant back then. But that doesn't apply to now, like at all.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Bastions abity feels like a trap, I just can't get it to even be close to the consistence for fire and arcane as necro Lord, it may work for frost, maybe but I'm a reluctant frost mage and not practised at playing it.

The night fea ability feels really clunky for all 3 specs and especialy arcane having yet another long channel ability for resource gain on top of evocation.... Just Eugh, but there may be some wierd synergy with it I'm not seeing that might make it bis for min maxes who can pull off perfect rotations.

The Venthyr one for mage is just... Idk. Seems useless, when I use it the only mobs that cast enough to use the procs often die befor casting enough nlanyway and in a boss it's hit and miss, boss abilities are wierd some are spells some not.

Necrolord to me is the stright forward way to go for mage, it adds stat buffs and a shield and a +10% spell power CD, mage allready has invis and mobility + mage stones back and other stuff that there's no need to go the other covenants for mage.

I definitely see the Kyrian ability not being easy to get consistent results from as fire, the rotation is simply too proc based for that and your filler spell hits like a wet noodle to begin with. Arcane though? Looks by far the most traight forward to me, as long as you manage to land a 4 charge AB at as the 3rd/4th spell it should work fine, shouldn't it? Frost seems to be more a mixed bag here simply because we still want to use the well timed (and positioned) effects of our spells and lining it up with RS works against the core mechanic in some ways. Also the soulbinds are kinda.. "eh, what ever". It really annoys me that they have no soulbind with 3pot+1fin path, as I'd really like to take the cooldown reduction for interrupt without sacrificing DPS.

Night Fae is simply good because of the CD reduction and will probably have some break points for certain fights. It's also the prettiest ability because the guy that made the effects only cared when doing night fae abilities I guess oO.

Venthyr should also work with melee abilities, so it should still have some decent use in boss fights. But I agree that for most normal enemies it will be hard to get even remotely close to being fully used. The covenant soulbind conduit seems to be utterly broken though if you can line it up with your dps cooldowns (and depending on if the effect refreshes for each new stack, otherwise it would be extremeley niche I guess).

I agree with the necrolord one, it's simple and effective. Also extremely broken for Arcane compared to the other 2 specs.

Btw it's kinda annoying how most of the soulbinds are made in a way that you will inadvertedly only pick the potency options because there is no way 2-5% buffs with 10-50% uptime will ever beat any of your core abilities' higher ranks unless you can fully specialize into ST or AoE for some reason.

[Syegfryed]

I heard that they are nerfing the drop of items and gold from old raids/dungeons, as well their selling price, is that true?