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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I'm more hoping the Forsaken get an "eat the rich" moment with Calia because Calia allowed the taxes for the internment camps to happen, which allowed the Cult of the Damned to exist in the first place
    Must have missed the part where she was the reigning monarch instead of Terenas during that time period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  2. #122
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Must have missed the part where she was the reigning monarch instead of Terenas during that time period.
    she allowed it to happen and she didn't do any "father please don't do this the people are starving"
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

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  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    They created the Alliance to fight the Horde. Which part of Lordaeron being in the Alliance includes giving up their rights and lands, whereas being in the Horde doesn't?

    If the Forsaken consider themselves the rightful Lordaeronians, why are they suddenly an enemy of the Alliance they founded?

    And also, Calia is a rightful successor of an absolute monarchy, she has every right to claim that kingdom over an usurper banshee or whatever regency was left in her place. Why would her people resist her and if they do, she also has every right to fight for her rule and if she loses it then she loses it.
    Putting aside the Forsaken's poor history with the Menethil family, Calia had over a decade to do anything on their behalf and chose instead to remain in hiding. They have every reason to resist her.

    The Alliance of Lordaeron no longer exists.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    she allowed it to happen
    And again, since she wasn't the monarch, she had no say.

    and she didn't do any "father please don't do this the people are starving"
    I suppose you have proof? Nah, this is just trying to find more reasons to hate the character. She's flawed enough, she doesn't need new flaws being invented. Also, since the alternative to the camps was executing the orcs as a clear and present threat, are you sure you want her to plead against the camps?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    What "evil" did Baine cause? Or is this again one of those lame denounciations? It is, isn't it?
    He broke the right to retribution by exiling the tauren who defended their lands from Alliance invaders, insulted the dead at Taurajo by calling them a legitimate military target, gave information to the enemy and killed a bunch of Horde troops to save a single human.

  6. #126
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    saying "we don't know" isn't going into what if's its just admitting a lack of information.
    dut you did construct your argument with wha if's, you said "we don't know, it could be..."
    I Could say that they have no more forsaken like the council members that were killed and spin a narrative about how Calia has to absolutely fill that role but we don't have any thing to back that up so its just a big I don't know instead of spinning a what if.
    there is no way of everyone dying

    Sylvanas shares no appearance similarities with the rest of the undead
    except the color, undead thematic, undead nature

    totally different than a pristine white human covered in gold


    It's not that they are both difference therefore they are the same its that sylvanas was already so insanely far away that going a bit further doesn't matter.
    and that is false because even if Sylvanas was far away, Calia is way, way too worse, and it literally does matter, you are changing a gothic, dark, undead thematic character who lead dark, goth and undead people all of hen revolved around dark magic and necromancy to a pristine, white human, covered in gold revolved around the light

    If Sylvanas was bad you do better now, not just trow shit in the fam

    when you have a figure that doesn't match at all and instead bends the theme to fit soloy them and there little special club then throwing some one in who continues that trend a little is easier to accept.
    Sylvanas didn't need to bend the forsaken theme, they are undead, she is undead, they use necromancy, she also does.


    Calia is a damn priest of the light, lightforged who will bend the forsaken to fir her special phlosophy, the alliance philosophy.

    and what we see makes them incredibly rare.
    being rare is not the point
    saying we have to wait and see isn't a what if.
    basically this then:


    self exile is still exile.
    that is evne worse, she was not eiled by a usurped, she exiled herself giving up her right

    and monarchy's tend to think other kingdom's can't belong to peasents in many caes and we see that it holds true in wow with people like varian acting like the frosaken have no claim.
    and again, pointless, no one would have claim with this argument.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    If the Forsaken consider themselves the rightful Lordaeronians, why are they suddenly an enemy of the Alliance they founded?
    The alliance is suddenly their enemy, not the other way around.

    And also, Calia is a rightful successor of an absolute monarchy, she has every right to claim that kingdom over an usurper banshee or whatever regency was left in her place. Why would her people resist her and if they do, she also has every right to fight for her rule and if she loses it then she loses it.
    She gave up that right, and the forsaken are not a monarchy anymore, she have no claim at anything

    who the fuck would fight for her rule? the alliance? lmao

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Gann Stonespire View Post
    He broke the right to retribution by exiling the tauren who defended their lands from Alliance invaders, insulted the dead at Taurajo by calling them a legitimate military target, gave information to the enemy and killed a bunch of Horde troops to save a single human.
    I see I was right.

    I won't address this again in detail, did it so many times already. Every second word in those two lines is wrong or one-sided and you are blaming Baine for things that Sylvanas is or would be praised for. Namely punishing people for going against his orders, establishing his authority and so on and when the Banshee outright declares that she wants to kill the entire Horde she is celebrated but Baine is the devil for killing some sick Forsaken torturers that supported the disgusting terrorist act their Dark lady was going to commit.
    It's a shame that you folks feel so much hate for your own side and doubtlessly will spurn Blizzard into MoP 3.0 with another psychopathic warchief having to be deleted, guess it can't be helped.
    Last edited by Raisei; 2020-08-24 at 09:38 PM.

  8. #128
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    dut you did construct your argument with wha if's, you said "we don't know, it could be..."
    saying we don't know isn't a what if... I'm not taking any stance, I'm saying we don't have any info one way or another as of now I' not speculating on either possibility.


    except the color, undead thematic, undead nature
    Incorrect on all bases. she's doesn't share color's she doesn't fit the same theme and she doesn't have the same undead nature as the humans as she even says in the dark mirror story, she's not the same as the rest of the forsaken and never has been.


    and that is false because even if Sylvanas was far away, Calia is way, way too worse, and it literally does matter, you are changing a gothic, dark, undead thematic character who lead dark, goth and undead people all of hen revolved around dark magic and necromancy to a pristine, white human, covered in gold revolved around the light
    they are just both extreme's on different ends neither any were close to the actual human forsaken. sylvanas is a perfect elf who's just a bit purple while not bending to the forsaken theme at all and calia is a white human not bending to the theme at all.

    If Sylvanas was bad you do better now, not just trow shit in the fam
    Ya I don't disagree but who ever designed her model did apparently.



    Sylvanas didn't need to bend the forsaken theme, they are undead, she is undead, they use necromancy, she also does.
    Ya because this signifies the unedead people of lorderon so well.








    that is evne worse, she was not eiled by a usurped, she exiled herself giving up her right
    not how divine right of kings works.

    and again, pointless, no one would have claim with this argument.
    yes that's the point no one has a legit claim so the other moarchy's just force it as they don't care what peasants think.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2020-08-24 at 09:46 PM.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasaru View Post
    Neither of them belong in the Horde, especially not Calia.
    I second the motion...
    "The fatal flaw of every plan, no matter how well planned, is the assumption that you know more than your enemy."

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    I see I was right.
    You were not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    I won't address this again in detail, did it so many times already. Every second word in those two lines is wrong
    Its exactly right, I've linked plenty of quests, what have you given?
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    one-sided and you are blaming Baine for things that Sylvanas is or would be praised for.
    The typical "you hate Baine, so you must love Sylvanas" straw argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post

    Namely punishing people for going against his orders, establishing his authority and so on
    Breaking Blood oaths promising all members of the Horde the right to retribution, punishing his people for defending themselves against an invading army led by violent criminals in all out war, and insulting his own dead aren't things Sylvanas has done yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Baine is the devil for killing some sick Forsaken torturers that supported the disgusting terrorist act their Dark lady was going to commit.
    He did that for a single human, just as he kills orcs with no regret, but angsts when forced to fight Northwatch invaders there to kill members of the Horde.

    Baine is bad because he spits on the culture of the Horde, puts human lives over any Horde lives, and only ever acts to help the Alliance never the Horde.

  11. #131
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Incorrect on all bases. she's doesn't share color's
    maybe you are seing other forsaken and other sylvanas then
    she doesn't fit the same theme and she doesn't have the same undead nature as the humans as she even says in the dark mirror story, she's not the same as the rest of the forsaken and never has been.

    maybe this is the problem, you don't even know the forsaken/undead theme, thats why you think she have nothing to do with then.
    they are just both extreme's on different ends neither any were close to the actual human forsaken. sylvanas is a perfect elf who's just a bit purple while not bending to the forsaken theme at all and calia is a white human not bending to the theme at all.
    what, you are making no sense, at all, again, if you think Sylvanas ahve nothing to do with the forsaken/undead thematic then the problem is entirely on you.

    She staight up have more undead theme than lighforged Calia

    Ya because this signifies the unedead people of lorderon so well.
    ah yes, a crest, trully bend the forsaken theme entirely, its not like lordaeron is dead and everyone there is a rottin zombie
    not how divine right of kings works.
    there is no "divine right" its not a Christian kingdom.

    yes that's the point no one has a legit claim so the other moarchy's just force it as they don't care what peasants think.
    again, pointless, they can tty to take it, the horde is there to push then out

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    If the Forsaken consider themselves the rightful Lordaeronians, why are they suddenly an enemy of the Alliance they founded?
    Because today's Alliance killed Sylvanas' envoys on sight, and never really ever sought to make amends for it, thus reinforcing Lordaeronian undead humans' forsaken status - even in a literal sense.

    It wasn't until the advent of Anduin Sue that living humans forgot how horrifying and repulsive can be a walking corpse, especially when chances are that said walking corpse has taken an active part in many of Sylvanas' funkiest shenanigans. But as BtS showed, it was just misconceptions - nothing that couldn't be fixed in half an hour or so of friendly talk
    Last edited by Soon-TM; 2020-08-24 at 10:41 PM.
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    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethas View Post
    So much this. These Alliance monkeys can go to hell.. back to their Alliance. We don’t need weeklings and betrayers in the mighty Horde.
    You have lots of traitors in the Horde. You recruited a few in the BFA war campaign even.
    Blood Elves and Forsaken are also both former members of the Alliance. If you don't want them I'll gladly welcome them back to the blue team.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    This is a world where upright-walking cows interact and ally with creatures made of living stone... outward differences obviously do not make such a big impact here or neither Alliance nor Horde could ever work while consisting of different races together.
    There is difference between allying with a cow and crowning a cow.
    Not really. He only lost control briefly because of the Dreadlords and later because of the Light. Every undead after this is completely under his control. Like Saurfang Junior for example.
    He needs to keep these undeads on very short leash to control them. Otherwise they rebel, like Darion or Sylvanas. Even Anub'arak tried to resist.
    As for anyone freeing himself from the Lights grasp, well, for one there haven't been many that were controlled by it, only on AU Draenor and we know very little about them.
    But one person has very clearly freed himself quite literally from it's grasp: Illidan. And he Eyebeamed the most powerful Naaru into little bits on top. Illidan is pretty powerful but even Arthas before fully becoming LK could beat him. And Velen's son killed a Naaru as well. So they are not that strong really.
    Illidan was in a process of losing mind. I assure you that this is not exactly the same as being lightforged. Compare that to people hearing whispers from the old gods. They can resist until they become k'thir.
    What "evil" did Baine cause? Or is this again one of those lame denounciations? It is, isn't it?
    Killing soldiers in his own army, saving life of enemy commander, giving military help to Alliance invaders. Do I really need to continue?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    I'll be sure to remember this the next time you care to call Alliance racist.
    There is difference between not being racist and crowning an alien as your queen. Would you like an alien from next expansion to become a High King?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gann Stonespire View Post
    Baine is bad because he spits on the culture of the Horde, puts human lives over any Horde lives, and only ever acts to help the Alliance never the Horde.
    That sounds like a glorious hero of the Alliance. You should be happy to have honour of seeing one becoming your warchief.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
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    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    They're two characters that have very little to do with each other. I don't see the point in comparing them.

    I don't want to see either in the Horde, Calia because she doesn't belong, and Valeera because it's against her character.

    The Role Playing sub-forum is that way.
    It's kinda sad how Valeera gave up her Horde Citizenship to become servant of Wrynn lol

  16. #136
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    It's kinda sad how Valeera gave up her Horde Citizenship to become servant of Wrynn lol
    Are you joking? She was an arena slave of Rehgar's at the same time as Varian was then sold to a Grimtotem before escaping and rejoining Varian. She had no Horde Citzenship to give up and has even less concern for them as a whole. Why wouldn't she have taken the opportunity to join someone she had fought with and been supported by?
    Last edited by Darknessvamp; 2020-08-25 at 06:12 PM.
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  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    It's kinda sad how Valeera gave up her Horde Citizenship to become servant of Wrynn lol
    Valeera was a slave, and before that an orphan. Varian and Broll gave her more than the Horde ever did.

  18. #138
    Why are we still talking Alliance and Horde shit when literally everyone and their mother have stated (MORE THAN ONCE EVEN) that this faction shit's stupid?

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Why are we still talking Alliance and Horde shit when literally everyone and their mother have stated (MORE THAN ONCE EVEN) that this faction shit's stupid?
    Its also stupid when only one faction remains.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Its also stupid when only one faction remains.
    With War Mode being a thing, and with almost none of the Alliance/Horde guys (Except for a small amount of assholes in lore) wanting to fight...

    No, it's not.

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