Toxic M+ Leavers

[bagelmanman]

Any tank not stacking vers at 20+ is an idiot and pulling like a pussy. TD is flat out stupid to run as a tank at this point, pull bigger.

[ID811717]

Any tank not stacking vers at 20+ is an idiot and pulling like a pussy. TD is flat out stupid to run as a tank at this point, pull bigger.

It's a personal choice. You can also stack versatility for +2 keys if you're not confident in your gameplay.

And everyone will call different key level numbers depending on what caliber of tanks they play with... A +23 key, before corruption vendor, was the first time I saw my regular tank lose control and get unexpectedly deleted by some trash, so that would be my go-to suggestion for when to start stacking versatility, just to smooth out the learning curve... Stacking versatility for a tank who plays only +20s and 21s seems totally unreasonable to me. If you asked a top streamer, they would probably say it's crucial to stack versatility starting from +25s or +26s.

[FiveDkp]

Around 22-23s is when I'd start putting on a few vers pieces - trash/bosses really hurt. I HAVE NOT DONE THAT HIGH OF A KEY but the guys that I do viewer runs with who help pump say that 22-23s is when you want to put a few pieces on.

[Naville]

Or you should understand the very basics of m+ and vers stacking, especially in pugs.
Try doing those keys with tanks that got no vers - they WILL die, very fast.
Obviously this is about pugs - premades are a completely different thing.

Depends on your tank class actually.

On my warrior I play +20/+22s with Versatile x4 and TD 3 x1, it's a good balance with most groups. I survive well and do 65k to 80k dps, depends on the dungeon.

On my monk I did a few +20s, but I play Versatile x8 on it. PUG healers are so terrible, and I really need maximum survivability. So yes, with my monk my DPS sucks, but I manage not to die, and you save +19s/+20s keys just by not dying, as a tank.

On my other tanks I do even lower keys (+17s/+18s) and play TD 2 or 3, then as much Versatiles as I can. And believe me, I need it. Ah also, as a PUG tank, no matter the class, I NEVER go over 39 corruption.

[Bloodyleech]

Depends on your tank class actually.

On my warrior I play +20/+22s with Versatile x4 and TD 3 x1, it's a good balance with most groups. I survive well and do 65k to 80k dps, depends on the dungeon.

On my monk I did a few +20s, but I play Versatile x8 on it. PUG healers are so terrible, and I really need maximum survivability. So yes, with my monk my DPS sucks, but I manage not to die, and you save +19s/+20s keys just by not dying, as a tank.

On my other tanks I do even lower keys (+17s/+18s) and play TD 2 or 3, then as much Versatiles as I can. And believe me, I need it. Ah also, as a PUG tank, no matter the class, I NEVER go over 39 corruption.

No, that applies to pugs too. The damage output is not significant enough to require full vers stacking on every piece of gear.

Even I do a random pug key as Blood every now and then there's no reason to remove any TDs below a 23-24

Exactly, it really depends on the tank-class or the pug itself. Ofc you can deal more dps via TD if the group is able to support the tank, but in most pugs this is sadly not the rule. I've seen warrior tanks dying in 15s like they're 420 geared - in other 15s I've had tanks that required absolutely zero healing in the whole dungeon. Generally you can't trust people in pugs, this is why a tank should use full Vers% in keys above 20 imo.

[Wuusah]

I've seen warrior tanks dying in 15s like they're 420 geared - in other 15s I've had tanks that required absolutely zero healing in the whole dungeon.

Warrior tanks really need to manage their cooldowns or else they'll have moments where they are super squishy. Going full vers won't prevent such a tank from being squishy.

But in 20+, I'd expect people to actually know how to play their spec. It's not that it depends on the class. It depends on the player.

[Bloodyleech]

Warrior tanks really need to manage their cooldowns or else they'll have moments where they are super squishy. Going full vers won't prevent such a tank from being squishy.

But in 20+, I'd expect people to actually know how to play their spec. It's not that it depends on the class. It depends on the player.

It's kind of both. If you got enough vers, you can still play not-so-good and survive 20s - in higher keys its different, yeah. A good warriortank doesnt need any vers in 20s, but every point vers helps.
The sad truth is that many people don't really know how to play their class to its best. The higher you go, the higher the chance that people actually know their class, but in the 20s range I'd say that there are still to many people now knowing how to play properly.
I can't agreee with the statement that it doesn't depend on the class though. Some tanks really need the support from their group, not like a warrior, who can do totally fine without any support (if played very well ofc!). These tanks have a better time if they got a higher amount of vers.

[bagelmanman]

Nice thing about prot war stacking vers is you have permanent shield wall up.

[Th3Scourge]

Exactly, it really depends on the tank-class or the pug itself. Ofc you can deal more dps via TD if the group is able to support the tank, but in most pugs this is sadly not the rule. I've seen warrior tanks dying in 15s like they're 420 geared - in other 15s I've had tanks that required absolutely zero healing in the whole dungeon. Generally you can't trust people in pugs, this is why a tank should use full Vers% in keys above 20 imo.

No, that's a player issue. The incoming damage is just not there to necessitate a set of full vers% until the damage scaling from very high key levels makes it impossible to survive without it

[Grimbold21]

On a low end m+, we had just wiped due to an overpull. We came back and a warrior dps pulls 1 single mob ahead of the tank, while he's eating. The tank claps and leaves an otherwise smooth run.

[Bloodyleech]

No, that's a player issue. The incoming damage is just not there to necessitate a set of full vers% until the damage scaling from very high key levels makes it impossible to survive without it

That's exactly what I said? "It depends on the tank-class (=> the player behind it) or the pug itself."

- - - Updated - - -

On a low end m+, we had just wiped due to an overpull. We came back and a warrior dps pulls 1 single mob ahead of the tank, while he's eating. The tank claps and leaves an otherwise smooth run.

Well, you don't pull as DPS in M+, that's a simple rule. Maybe the Tank didnt want to pull exactly this mob? Or whatever other reason?
It doesn't matter what keylevel it is - there are rules when you play in a pug. Maybe the failed pull was a DPS fault too and the tank can't stand this shit?

[Minikin]

I came here for drama stories and all you guys gave me, is an argument!

I'll add my experience from today:
Mythic +15 workshop just for the weekly

Wipe on that first trash pack. No idea why but one second tank was there next second he was gone lawl. W.e continued on.

First boss dies pretty quick. On the way to second the healer told the shaman he should have popped hero for boss. For some reason he pops it on the trash to the 2nd boss right then there.

Second boss dies no issue but hero would have been nice. Honestly the DPS outgeared the place so wasn't a problem on boss fights.

And finally shit hits the fan. We take the tank crusher guy obelisk and move him all the way to the final steam vent to kill him there. Somehow the shaman managed to die in the obelisk. We will the guy without him. HOWEVER for some unknown reason man wouldn't take portal and kept trying to make his way through the vents. EXCEPT he would rush and kept getting caught and porter back.

After 2nd fail the he just quit and group fell apart.

[T-34]

On a low end m+, we had just wiped due to an overpull. We came back and a warrior dps pulls 1 single mob ahead of the tank, while he's eating. The tank claps and leaves an otherwise smooth run.

A smooth run? You wipe on a low m+ and a dps facepulls again? I don't blame the tank.

[Naville]

After 2nd fail the he just quit and group fell apart.

Failers are often the first to leave... It seems that people are triggering very fast noadays. That's not surprising we have to bear foolish behavior in-game or even IRL...

[Grimbold21]

how is that a smooth run?

Because it was going just fine until that point.

We wiped cause it was over extended or something. When we ran back, one mob was left of what killed us before. The tank sat down to eat and few seconds later a dps pulled the mob. He tanked cause the tank clearly wasn't having none of it, but the rest of the party helped.

After, the tank just emoted smth and bailed.

I mean, is this a recent thing? Cause I was there for TBC heroics and this behavior from a tank - or anyone else for that matter - wasn't that prominent. Normally, you'd say smth about it, instead of rage quitting. Well, that isn't really rage, it's more like arrogance quitting.

You folks think that the tank was in the right, sure go for it. I disagree.

[arkanon]

Because it was going just fine until that point.

We wiped cause it was over extended or something. When we ran back, one mob was left of what killed us before. The tank sat down to eat and few seconds later a dps pulled the mob. He tanked cause the tank clearly wasn't having none of it, but the rest of the party helped.

After, the tank just emoted smth and bailed.

I mean, is this a recent thing? Cause I was there for TBC heroics and this behavior from a tank - or anyone else for that matter - wasn't that prominent. Normally, you'd say smth about it, instead of rage quitting. Well, that isn't really rage, it's more like arrogance quitting.

You folks think that the tank was in the right, sure go for it. I disagree.

You think tanks quitting because of dps pulling is a new thing? You cant be serious.

[Grimbold21]

You think tanks quitting because of dps pulling is a new thing? You cant be serious.

I mean, is this a recent thing? Cause I was there for TBC heroics and this behavior from a tank - or anyone else for that matter - wasn't that prominent

Is that what this remark suggests?

No I don't it's new. Like TBC, I was there for the 5 man shitshow that WOTLK was.

Context. It's one thing to be annoyed and leave over 1 or more dps constantly pulling ahead of the tank, it's another for 1 single mob to be pulled (and killed without issue) and instantly take that as a suggestion of, I dunno, "Oh yea? You think you're better than the tank? Buh bye".

Grow up and use your words. If the dps are continuously being <snip>, then by all means, leave.

[Bloodyleech]

It's up to the tank if he wants to continue a run with someone that pulled or not.
If he doesn't want to talk to him, it's his own decision.

I'm leaving to when I see that some are slacking TO much (like dealing 20k as 450 equiped) or not knowing mechanics at all (in 18s dungeons).
I just can't deal with these people anymore, leaving is the best I can do in this moment.

[Pohut]

I mean, is this a recent thing? Cause I was there for TBC heroics and this behavior from a tank - or anyone else for that matter - wasn't that prominent

Is that what this remark suggests?

No I don't it's new. Like TBC, I was there for the 5 man shitshow that WOTLK was.

Context. It's one thing to be annoyed and leave over 1 or more dps constantly pulling ahead of the tank, it's another for 1 single mob to be pulled (and killed without issue) and instantly take that as a suggestion of, I dunno, "Oh yea? You think you're better than the tank? Buh bye".

Grow up and use your words. If the dps are continuously being <snip>, then by all means, leave.

I don't think you were there for TBC heroics. It was much worse than today back in TBC. Tanks would insta leave for pretty much anything. No matter how minor. They held all the power back in the day.

[Th3Scourge]

That's exactly what I said? "It depends on the tank-class (=> the player behind it) or the pug itself."

It doesn't come down to the class at all. It's purely a player skill issue you are describing. Any tank able to roll their face across a keyboard should be able to survive just fine in a 20 not wearing full vers%