Blizzard screws the Loyalists over in Shadowlands

[Tanaria]

If you had paid attention to the story, you'd have seen she was betrayed by the horde, not the other way around.

Doesn't matter how you view it.
It was always going to end up like Garrosh 2.0, only worse.

I think there's a reason why they ended that whole campaign in 8.2.5 was because it wasn't going anywhere and was just a rip-off of Warchief Hellscream.

[Sorshen]

That's what you deserve for rallying behind her. It was never a real choice.

[Mehrunes]

maybe that choice was utilized as a vote to decide where to go with her story. that means the losing side was always supposed to get nothing.

Nope. It was always going to be Saurfang, even if every single Horde player picked Sylvanas. That's why the loyalist path is just doing the traitors' quests anyway with just a "lel, play along" tagged at the end.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

I already stated it. I can't help that you can't read it. I am not i licensed teacher, nor am I tutor of any sort. Its not my job to teach you how to read.

So your whole reason for thinking Anduin is a villain is because of the actions of Sylvanus? How is what took place in Before the Storm his fault?

[Gaidax]

I think there's a reason why they ended that whole campaign in 8.2.5 was because it wasn't going anywhere and was just a rip-off of Warchief Hellscream.

This is just a false theory. You don't pull out a frikkin' half average Pixar movie production out of your hat in a matter of couple of months in between 8.2 and Shadowlands reveal with her being there.

They planned this to happen exactly the way it did.

[TickTickTick]

What the absolute fuck?

It's a game, not real life... you should learn the difference, it's quite dangerous to conflate the two.

He's talking about in character, not IRL. Like "why doesn't the loyalists kill themselves since Sylvanus doesn't value their life".

LOL obviously I meant it as in-character. Thought it was obvious...

[Tanaria]

Nope. It was always going to be Saurfang, even if every single Horde player picked Sylvanas. That's why the loyalist path is just doing the traitors' quests anyway with just a "lel, play along" tagged at the end.

Yes.
Lastminute.com implementation with no real core ideas put into it. Blizzard didn't care about it and I only ended up siding with her on my DK and Warrior after 8.2.5, because it felt fitting. Not for anything more.

They could have done so much more with the loyalist campaign. Hell, on my Hunter, I didn't want to save Bloodhoof. I should have been sent into Zin-Azshari to recover the Touch of the Void Grimoire (the off-hand that shadowpriests used during Legion) and be getting insider knowledge on what Windrunner was planning. But the thing is, that choice I made was an after-thought by Blizzard. A waste of time.

It would be the exact same if they implemented an Anduin/Tyrande loyalist option in 8.1 for the Alliance. It wouldn't matter anyway as both managed to do what they set out to do and that was to win Arathi and Darkshore.

This is just a false theory. You don't pull out a frikkin' half average Pixar movie production out of your hat in a matter of couple of months in between 8.2 and Shadowlands reveal with her being there.

They planned this to happen exactly the way it did.

A story that had brought a choice in, that in the end, had no difference between the quests (or extremely very little) is not putting a lot of effort into the story.
Lastminute.com decision making is how I view this campaign.

At least they didn't try and pull this with, Warchief Hellscream, even though I am a deeply devoted, Garrosh loyalist.

[Kumorii]

She only told the loyalist PC that they will understand the next time we meet her. And since Sylvanas is going to have an exposition dump moment in Shadowlands, that would fulfill this bit of foreshadowing. In a manner not exclusive to the loyalists, because that choice never really existed in Blizzard's mind as it was just a sad attempt at a smokescreen against the criticism that they are doing Garrosh 2.0 (which they ultimately flat out confirmed). Like they said at Blizzcon, the loyalist/traitor paths are not going to matter in Shadowlands at all.

Seems like an odd choice to me... I never expected any drastic differences, just like the choice in BFA didn't really matter since you both did the exact same thing. Only difference was that you got a little bit more inside information from Sylvanas pov.
I don't think many deluded themselves into thinking that they wouldn't be playing as good guys from her on out, but the fact that they missed the opportunity that they could just add a few lines that makes loyalist characters redeem themselves by acting as an inside spy which would lead to Nathanos fall doesn't seem like much work and would make the transition more natural albeit a tad forced.

Later on loyalists they could be getting some information leading up to Sylvanas raid which is used to break through, doesn't need much work tbh... but oh well.

[Triceron]

Blizzard can go faf itself with its ineptitude and creative bankruptcy.
Esecially when they brag about "it's an RPG".

TBH it's the guy in the video seeing what he wants to see and being hurt that he didn't get the story to go the way he wanted.

At the end of the day, Sylvanas had forsaken everyone. There is no silver lining in being a Loyalist. If you considered yourself part of her army and not a part of the Horde, then the payoff is that you will be just as pissed off as everyone else who got abandoned by her. This is a story point that's persisted through to NPCs like the Dark Rangers now trying to find a new life, or Nathanos fending for himself as a World Boss. She has abandoned everything including those who were most loyal to her, which solidifies her place as a villain.

That is purposeful story, and if you're hurt by the way that story progressed then you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. There is no reward in being loyal to a villain, even if the story gave you options to. If you're Alliance, you're pissed at her for starting a needless war. If you're Horde, you're pissed at her at forsaking Horde values and having killed Saurfang dishonourably. If you're a Loyalist, you hate her because she literally abandoned you and treated all your efforts as if they were nothing to her. End of the day - everyone should hate Sylvanas for one reason or another.

As for splitting off from the Horde instead of rejoining it; well we all know that wasn't going to happen so who are we fooling here?

[Kumorii]

Do not underestimate WoW simps...

I think it has more to do with players deciding to take the role of a loyalist rather than simp, although there are probably some overlap.

Making choices available in a game and then expect people to not make those choices is just retarded. Especially when a lot of people are making the choices to see where it leads and what story bits you get.

it's why most play through bioshock multiple times to kill and save the little girls to experience what happens in both scenarios. Would be stupid if they just went "oh, we didn't think anyone would pick to kill them because that's bad". People choose a role, if the role exists as a choice it should be treated as one.

They should've just tied it up more neatly by anyone who chose the loyalist path gets a redemption arc to justify why they are back on the good side.

[Arrashi]

Blizzard told the loyalists in every way that Sylvanas did not give a shit for them. Again and again. But you kept going for that dark lady bath water. She abandons NATHANOS. How much more direct can Blizzard get?

I dunno, how about sadfangs ghost delivering 2 hour long unskippable speech about honor and shiet?

[Gaidax]

A story that had brought a choice in, that in the end, had no difference between the quests (or extremely very little) is not putting a lot of effort into the story.
Lastminute.com decision making is how I view this campaign.

At least they didn't try and pull this with, Warchief Hellscream, even though I am a deeply devoted, Garrosh loyalist.

Blizz pulls out half an hour of world class CG animation production that rivals top studios into the story...

Random MMO-C dude - "Not putting effort"


KEKW

[Kumorii]

The thing is, Blizzard did not initially have that choice. Players demanded it.

Not sure how that changes anything. Blizzard made the choice to implement it, blizzard are responsible for the result.
Unless we gonna give developers free passes for anything because players wanted it.

[Mehrunes]

Seems like an odd choice to me... I never expected any drastic differences, just like the choice in BFA didn't really matter since you both did the exact same thing. Only difference was that you got a little bit more inside information from Sylvanas pov.

Even that isn't correct. The loyalists were usually not present for the last moment of the traitor path, like Saurfang disobeying the orders of his sovereign, resisting arrest, murdering the representatives of said sovereign and then talking with Zekhan about his plan. Instead they got "all according to keikaku" from Sylvanas every time. That's a net loss in regards to the amount of information presented.

I don't think many deluded themselves into thinking that they wouldn't be playing as good guys from her on out, but the fact that they missed the opportunity that they could just add a few lines that makes loyalist characters redeem themselves by acting as an inside spy which would lead to Nathanos fall doesn't seem like much work and would make the transition more natural albeit a tad forced.

There is no such thing as "doesn't seem like much work" in Blizzard's vocabulary. Any amount of work, no matter how small and insignificant, is backbreaking labor to be avoided. Especially in the cesspit that is their writing department. We are talking about the company where even their most prized writer couldn't do something as easy as playing (or just reading up on wowpedia) the first goddamn Forsaken quest as research while writing a book about the race. Compared to that the "arduous undertaking" of writing a few additional lines (that are unnecessary to their "deep" philosophy of Blanduinism that they want to focus on) is basically a Sisyphean task for the bright specimens of the human race writing WoW's story.

[cparle87]

This is what light a fire in my belly.
When the ending of BFA faction war happened I was pissed off at the mediocre writing, that Sylvannas' cry "You are all nothing." suddenly turns the whole Horde on her. But then I was like, "well, what's happened, happened I made my choices and when the time comes I'll stand where I stood" since I played the forsaken loyalist.
And then this happens...

Blizzard can go faf itself with its ineptitude and creative bankruptcy.
Esecially when they brag about "it's an RPG".

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Battle_at_...s_of_Orgrimmar

There's plenty of creativity. Loyalists feeling betrayed, loyalists still believing she's good and this is just part of some plan, Horde-loyalists forgiving them, Horde-loyalists not, Alliance folk glad the war is over, Alliance folk waiting for the next time the Horde attacks, both groups reeling from Sylvanas and Nathanos leaving.

Btw, just pointing out that I didn't even bother watching your video cause it's clearly nothing more than biased clickbait.

[Tanaria]

Blizz pulls out half an hour of world class CG animation production that rivals top studios into the story...

Random MMO-C dude - "Not putting effort"


KEKW

That cinematic was for both Windrunner and Saurfang loyalists.
My point is that Windrunner loyalists should have got something different and they didn't. They got copper whilst the Varok loyalists got gold.

A CG cinematic with Sylvanas and Nathanos where she talks about her bargain with Queen Azshara would have suited me, on my loyalist characters.

[Krimzin]

This is what light a fire in my belly.
When the ending of BFA faction war happened I was pissed off at the mediocre writing, that Sylvannas' cry "You are all nothing." suddenly turns the whole Horde on her. But then I was like, "well, what's happened, happened I made my choices and when the time comes I'll stand where I stood" since I played the forsaken loyalist.

Blizzard can go faf itself with its ineptitude and creative bankruptcy.
Esecially when they brag about "it's an RPG".

I ran across a post from a Q&A Tester from a year ago. He goes over a whole list of things that will be changing in the future of WoW. Here are a couple that are relevant to this post.

-Faction revamp - The Alliance and Horde are fractured, and the lines between allies and enemies have been blurred.
-Horde and Alliance can now chat, trade, join communities, and group with each other (Some restrictions will exist, like Mythic raiding, which will follow current Cross Realm rules)
-Opposing faction capital cities and their associated factions are now neutral, and rep can be earned to improve your standing with them.
-There is still a core Horde faction, led by Sylvanas, and a core Alliance faction, led by Tyrande


Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...the_real_leak/


You will notice, some of the things he said a year ago are happening in Shadowlands. Nor sure if all of it will but who knows.

[Candy Cough]

The loyalists were never a thing. It was just to quiet you people. They never had a story, never had a furute. The entire thing was because you had necrophylliac kiddies who were obsessed with sylvanus and her undead body, that is it.

Infracted.

Yeah completely wrong, I am gay and I support my undead queen

What they did to her was nothing short of character assassination. "Maybe you dont care if your people die aslong as its honorable, but to me, the horde is worth saving. Anyone who disagrees does not deserve to stand among us." Why didn't she just kill bolvar back in legion if she made a deal with the jailer? Because he needed souls? Then you're just making the jailer a pathetic threat. "Oh he's too weak to fight us unless he has enough souls." It's not like the scourge is going to rack up millions of deaths in the prepatch or anything...

[Nerovar]

This video confirms a lot of suspicions I had about Sylvanas' fans.


It's incredible that people would want to side with a character that not only not cares about them but is actively working towards their damnation and has abandoned everyone who was loyal to her. Crying about Blizzard not providing an option to further side with the mustache twirling villain now that every shade of grey has been washed out is just ridiculous levels of cope.

[Tanaria]

And nothing says that choice will lead to anything more than what it did. That's on the players' perception.

But it should have given more quests, rather than "follow them around and smile for the camera."
Loyalists should not have been going to save Baine under the guise of "follow them around and speak to a Dark Ranger and she'll give you a potion."

Loyalists should have been doing their own thing, perhaps in Zin-Azshari, looking for the Grimoire of the Void (the book that the shadow priests used in Legion as an off-hand.)