Best Elf race for each class?

[Tanaria]

Not all night elf mages are Shen'dralar, that particular group has it's distinctions whether you agree or not, but there are others, to be honest, I can't see any advantage any other derivative elf has over a night elf, and vice versa. Night elves who use the arcane have a huge advantage as having been doing so for 10k millennia like the Nightborne, to me that puts them above all younger ones, like blood elves and void elves. Ofc I'm speaking on a racial individual level.

Talent wise, blood elves have no more innate arcane capability than night elves, i'd say they probably have less. Nightborne it's impossible to tell, on the one hand the constant arcane feeding might have made their bodies more inducive to it, but on the downside it corrupted them, and that has drawbacks, the night elf is in a much healthier position and is the original enhancement. The Thalassian was a downgrade, they devolved a little bit, their sunwell enhancement perks them up again, but it's not at the level of the original, which is why they don't live as long, get addicted more easily and can't retain as well.

Ofc this has little to do with magical aptitude or talent, you're either born with it or not, but to assume the night elves can't churn out another Azshara, Illidan or Elisande is to be blind and ignorant to their lore and to ignore it. They've been 15,000 years around the waters of the well of eternity and connected to the arcane lifeblood of Azeroth, it's part of their make up, whether the majority of them don't use the arcane or those talented with it amongst the Darnassians weren't utlsiling it because of the ban. Night elf arcane talent should be unquestioned, you have the history, and individuals to prove it, and the lore description. If you're saying no because you don't see Darnassians magically pwning other people, then by your logic you should just accept humans are superior to blood elves because their mages are shown doing far grater feats than blood elven ones rather regularly. Yet you won't, because you don't just go on what the game shows you in characters, but by what the lore also tells.

But I notice with you that all of a sudden doesn't matter when it comes to night elf mages, and how dare anyone suggest precious blood elves aren't vastly superior, or worse, inferior, perish the thought the devolved version can't handle as much as the 10k + year original.



If we are looking at the progress and development of arcane in the society, totally different ballgame. by that standard, you have

1. Nightborne - Suramar and Nightborne magic > blood elves
2. Void elves - though homeless, the entire society regardless of class is magical
3. Blood elves - while magic tradition continues strongly, it isn't as all encompassing in society as it is amongst the Nightborne or Void elves
4. Night elves - because the Shen'dralar and their reinstated highborne order are but a small portion of the kaldorei community number wise, they are operate with them mostly, not separately like the void elves do.


If we were to switch arcane for magic overall. We'll have
1. Void elves
2. Nightborne
3. Blood elves
4. Night elves

You seem to be conflating several aspects, but I have broken them down into a more specific line, distinguishing magical aptitude, talent, capacity of the race versus the prevalence and practice in society, or development in society.

- - - Updated - - -

You questioned me because you can't fathom anyone liking blood elven magisters over night elven ones. In your view, people can only like blood elf farstriders because that's all you see in them.
And blood elves have done more with their arcane mastery. since their introduction than the highborne ever did in Cataclysm, such as Blood Magic.

Your simply ignorant of blood elf lore and can't comprehend it.

[Mace]

You questioned me because you can't fathom anyone liking blood elven magisters over night elven ones. In your view, people can only like blood elf farstriders because that's all you see in them.
And blood elves have done more with their arcane mastery. since their introduction than the highborne ever did in Cataclysm, such as Blood Magic.

Your simply ignorant of blood elf lore and can't comprehend it.

Well considering the elves did the best, went the furthest and achieved the greatest feats when they were night elves, it shows something of the race.

Anyway, every playable race is amazing, blizzard gave them great pedigree, it's just that they're at different stages, and for a ll their specialities and fortes, they're all great.

Tanaria, you view blood elven magisters like the blood elf npcs, who obviously think they are better than everyone else and don't have the context and humility to notice that which is in others.

It's not that I can't fathom anyone liking blood elven magisters over night elven ones, I know you do, and others do, but you look so down on night elven mages and the race and I think you've grossly underestimated them and disregard the very words the lore tells us. You are following the Azshara NPcs views on the few weeks old night elf mages he encountered, and class the entire race from which all elves came from based on that.

It's just astounding, if you were like "they're close, but I would give blood elves the edge because, x,y,z" etc, I'd at least understand, but you put blood elves over void leves and Nightborne and clearly these are more magically based elven off shoots than the more rounded blood elves and night elves. This is obvious prejudice.

you state things about the great arcane mastery of the blood elves, we know this, yet that somehow translates to the blood elves being the best of the elves? I clearly don't follow, because the statement clearly didn't say the best.

So in the previous response I broke it down in several ways.

1. Arcane potential, capability - and I concluded all elves were equal
2. Arcane in society - Nightborne were the winners
3. Magic in society - Void elves were the winners

Even though Thalassians had the devolution, and Nightborne while having some excelling also had a handicap, any of the elven individuals had the same potential for great magical capability, the level of talent was also quite similar, Night elves were the least likely to make use of their talent because of their recent history, while Nightborne and void elves were the most likely to make use of their potential, but all had. Why?

Because they all come from night elves, it's the same night elf root, and it just happens some communities do it more than others. The Highborne amongst the Darnassians are just as magically intensive as the blood elf magisters, who are just as magical as the void elves or the Nightborne. However amongst the void elves and Nightborne it's a much larger community of the whole race that is involved, whereas for night elves and blood elves, the Highborne and magisters/locks/priests are only a portion of a larger whole.

[Tanaria]

It's not that I can't fathom anyone liking blood elven magisters over night elven ones, I know you do, and others do, but you look so down on night elven mages and the race and I think you've grossly underestimated them and disregard the very words the lore tells us. You are following the Azshara NPcs views on the few weeks old night elf mages he encountered, and class the entire race from which all elves came from based on that.

It's just astounding, if you were like "they're close, but I would give blood elves the edge because, x,y,z" etc, I'd at least understand, but you put blood elves over void leves and Nightborne and clearly these are more magically based elven off shoots than the more rounded blood elves and night elves. This is obvious prejudice.

Firstly, Void Elves primarily use Void Magic. Magic that mainly Shadow Priests use.
So let's clear that up.

Secondly, Blood Elves and Nightborne are in locations that are deeply intertwined with magic. Now after looking at both, I can see Blood Elves use a wider variety of magical schools than Nightborne. Additional to the arcane schools of magic, the Blood Elves have also taken to using Blood Magic that no other Elven group has taken to with such ease. Now don't say that Blood Elves never used the Void because they did. The Sunfury under High Astromancer Solarian used the Void and still, Blood Elf Shadow Priests can use the Void.
The only arcane-school that neither use is Necromancy.

And I don't look down on night elves, but their is a reason why the majority of the Alliance Mages are primarily Humans, High Elves or Void Elves. Their is also a reason why the majority of the Alliance's Archers and Druids are Night Elves. Now you mention Estulan shooting an Ogre down, which an Ogre Warlock also did. Months later, Jaina Proudmoore is summoning a tidal wave which would be big enough to wash over Durotar and Orgrimmar.
Again, age doesn't contribute actual experience. It's like when you ask your Grandparents about the world's history and they are very knowledgeable about it. Ask them to work the newest i-phone 4 and they are at a loss. This is what we can see when it comes to accomplishments that the Humans have had and what the Shen'dralar lack in. They might know about Enchanting, as the Enchanting shop in Dalaran is owned by a Highborne, but the leaders of the Kirin Tor are mainly Human with a Blue Dragon.

[Mace]

Firstly, Void Elves primarily use Void Magic. Magic that mainly Shadow Priests use.
So let's clear that up.

Wrong, again, while they use the void in everything, they are MAGES mostly, void =/= priest, clearly evident in the void elves and as they reveal things about the void, we see mages, hunters, rogues, warriors all void wielding, we don't even see a void elf priest - but we know there must be and they would be good at shadow, same with warlocks especially in affliction and demo, but that's just cos we understand the magic those specs primarily use.

But they're largely mages, magical scholars, and their entire society is centred on magical studies of the void.

Or did you miss that?

And I don't look down on night elves, but their is a reason why the majority of the Alliance Mages are primarily Humans, High Elves or Void Elves

But that doesn't mean night elf mages aren't as good as blood elven ones and have more knowledgeable and experienced teachers either. You forget the analogy I gave you, human mages are more prolifically used than blood elf mages, will you therefore conclude that because of this human mages are better than blood elven ones? So why do you conclude the same about night elves when you have an entire history, lore, several groups that show the exact oppsite.?

[Tanaria]

Wrong, again, while they use the void in everything, they are MAGES mostly, void =/= priest, clearly evident in the void elves and as they reveal things about the void, we see mages, hunters, rogues, warriors all void wielding, we don't even see a void elf priest - but we know there must be and they would be good at shadow, same with warlocks especially in affliction and demo, but that's just cos we understand the magic those specs primarily use.

But they're largely mages, magical scholars, and their entire society is centred on magical studies of the void.

Or did you miss that?


But that doesn't mean night elf mages aren't as good as blood elven ones and have more knowledgeable and experienced teachers either. You forget the analogy I gave you, human mages are more prolifically used than blood elf mages, will you therefore conclude that because of this human mages are better than blood elven ones? So why do you conclude the same about night elves when you have an entire history, lore, several groups that show the exact oppsite.?

It's not wrong. They might be Mages, but the "Void" isn't part of the arcane/mage schools of study and thus far, we only know of one and that is Umbric. The other void elves we've met appear to be Rangers loyal to Alleria. You could say they are a different branch of "Mage" but like the Blood Magic that Blood Elves use, it's just a source that they mainly use.

And I look at things based on the faction armies, and as far as the core races from both factions that mainly had Mages at the forefront were Blood Elves and Humans, followed by High Elves. It wasn't until the Nightborne came, did the Horde have a second "mage" race. The closest we got was between Forsaken and Darkspear.
Also, you have an entire history, lore and other things that show exactly what the current Thalassian Elves have done and can do. Yes, the mooncrystals holding Ban'dinoriel in place are gone, but the Magisters are more than capable of standing in place and maintaining the barrier.

And I'm not interested in groups long since past. I only look at what we've got at the moment and what we've got are the Shen'dralar who simply aren't at all impressive and it's little wonder why people mainly flock to picking blood elf, void elf or nightborne mages - with blood elf mages being the easiest option due to the unlocking requirement for the velfs and nborne.

EDIT - And look - you said you didn't want this debate, but you kept on questioning me. If you didn't want this debate, just accept that my views are different to yours and stop trying to convince me otherwise.

[Mace]

And I look at things based on the faction armies, and as far as the core races from both factions that mainly had Mages at the forefront were Blood Elves .

Well say so, clearly when anyone talks about wider terms like "the best" "the most", "most powerful" etc, it isn't universally about "faction armies"

I tried to make that clear but giving in terms of potential/power, level of arcane use society wide (not individual wise) , magical use society wide.

You need to specify, I might be thinking of arcane practice, level of mastery and power, not the race's ability to martial an effective faction army, that's a different scenario.

For a mgical army mustering, blood elves would obviously be number 1. Void elves are too small in number, so are the magic wielding night elves, Nightborne could possibly launch something somewhat comparable, but we still don't know how they are in terms of armies after 7.2, we killed a lot of the most powerful Nightborne and the most experienced were loyal to Elisande and the Legion.

[Tanaria]

Nightborne could possibly launch something somewhat comparable

Well, wrong again if you read the recent novel, Shadows Rising and the parts which contained Thalyssra and what she was doing.
It's why I rate the Nightborne above the Void Elves, because they have strong advanced telemancy skills that go beyond the blood elves' orbs of translocation.

[Mace]

Well, wrong again if you read the recent novel, Shadows Rising and the parts which contained Thalyssra and what she was doing.
It's why I rate the Nightborne above the Void Elves, because they have strong advanced telemancy skills that go beyond the blood elves' orbs of translocation.

Well, you seemed to have missed that I rated the Nghtborne above the void elves for the arcane.

[AngerFork]

Imo, Night elf paladin would be one of the greatest only if it was introduced in respect to a Warrior of the Night and/or a magical aspect of the sentinels that hadn't been previously expanded on.

If it is night elves following human tenets of the light, then they'd be bliming novices at the bottom of the pack.

Naturally, that's how it would be played out. It would be the Night Elf version of a Paladin, not the traditional Uther-style. Still with the fervent devotion to their "light", still willing to bathe themselves and give themselves fully to it...just not the Human-style Light.

This would be far from the first Race/Class combo to stray from the initial setup. Troll Druids follow the Loa rather than nature, Tauren Paladins follow An'she. Night Elf Priests follow Elune.

[Ardenaso]

Hmm I'm wrong there that Amberwind isn't actually a Shen'dralar but then again they isolated themselves in Eldre'thalas for too long, surely they would be stagnated over time still. Same as Moonguard, else they would've been shown in Reforged at least.

Unless the "Humans" in Tomb of Sargeras in Warcraft 2 Beyond the Dark Portal turn out to be canonically the Moonguard

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Naturally, that's how it would be played out. It would be the Night Elf version of a Paladin, not the traditional Uther-style. Still with the fervent devotion to their "light", still willing to bathe themselves and give themselves fully to it...just not the Human-style Light.

This would be far from the first Race/Class combo to stray from the initial setup. Troll Druids follow the Loa rather than nature, Tauren Paladins follow An'she. Night Elf Priests follow Elune.

I'm still adamant that Priestess of the Moon are technically Paladins

[Mace]

Hmm I'm wrong there that Amberwind isn't actually a Shen'dralar but then again they isolated themselves in Eldre'thalas for too long, surely they would be stagnated over time still. Same as Moonguard, else they would've been shown in Reforged at least.

Unless the "Humans" in Tomb of Sargeras in Warcraft 2 Beyond the Dark Portal turn out to be canonically the Moonguard

Amberwind is returned Darnassian Highborne - blizzard stated in a tweet when asked to confirm, that the night elven mages you meet in Azshara levelling zone are not Shen'dralar highborne - that doesn't mean they aren't highborne though. Anyway, she is stealth assassinated before she can do anything.

When the the ban was lifted and the Shen'dralar rejoined and started replenishing their numbers, they had two sources. Former Highborne who'd respected the ban to prevent the Legion's return and stayed with the main kaldorei group, like Amberwind, the twins we meet in Azsuna looking for their parents, and the other Lorekeepers in Talendris post, they're all Highborne who returned to this calling with the return of the Shen'dralar and lifting of the ban as the kaldorei now wanted to exploit their arcane heritage to deal with the new threats they faced, and new novices selected because of their exceptional talent in the arcane, these are also selected to become Highborne and are part of that group. Part of the agreement of the Shen'dralar was that they handle all training of the mages and do so without restrictions, and that these would be Highborne. Furthermore they wouldn't be required to adopt Darnassian cultural ways but would be allowed to continue in their own ways.

They are effectively a sub-culture or a separate group allied with the Darnassians, they could have worked as an allied race temporarily out of home, pretty much like the Void elves sojourning in Stormwind temporarily or the High elves in in Stormwind or Dalaran.. But because they're night elves, people just assume it's the same thing and never look further.

I'm still adamant that Priestess of the Moon are technically Paladins

I view some as operating as paladins, some as operating as priests - although it would be more accurate that their martial side is with a bow rather than a sword - or rather some of them would be hunter priests, some warrior priests, some just priests - amongst the Sisterhood itself (the Sisterhood is the highest echelon of the Order of Elune, and they are all women), you do have priests in the lower echelons ofc, some which are male. The Sentinal order and the Wardens re both branches of the Order of Elune, the Wardens though seemed to have diverged a fair bit from the Order, but I haven't noticed much that indicates they are totally separate, more autonomous or relatively (yes, due to Maiev's actions from WC3 to present) but still order related. Unless someone has some more info I'm missing.

[Beloren]

Hunter - all but Nbelves.

BM - NElf
MM - Velf, BElf, NElf
Surv - Nelf, HElf, BElf, VELf

Mage - all elves
Arcane - Nightborne, Nelf highbornes
Fire - Blood elf
Frost - void elf, high elf

DH - havoc BElf
Vengeance NElf

DK - all bElf

Pala - all Belf

Druid - all NElf (
Nightborne would be great at balance - arcan'dor and everything

Warrior
Nightborne, Night elf

Rogue - Nightborne, Night elf, Void elf
Assasisnation - Blood elf

Warlock - Blood elf
Affliction - void elf
Velves could be great at demo i think

Priest:
Holy - BElf/NElf
Shadow: VElf/NElf
Discipline - all elves

Monk: BM - NB/BElf - the only elves that drink alcohol
WW - all elves - they're all so fast and can do magic for winds to aid
MW - NElves/ HElves /BELves - healing types really

[Tanaria]

Well, you seemed to have missed that I rated the Nghtborne above the void elves for the arcane.

No, I didn't miss it.
I just think that as a whole, Nightborne serve as better Mages than the Void Elves, beyond the Arcane as the Nightborne still have arcane controlled constructs, telemancy skills are second to none. With Blood Elves, their skills in other arts such as conjuration and divination can improve and their intelligence would see positive results.

Void Elves are third because they are sort of an off-branch of Mages. Mainly dealing in the ways of the Void and not the arcane schools that the blood elves, nightborne and indeed the night elves of the broken isles as well as the other races, typically use.

[Stardrift]

We need more elf genocides because of weirdos like you

[Beloren]

No, I didn't miss it.
I just think that as a whole, Nightborne serve as better Mages than the Void Elves, beyond the Arcane as the Nightborne still have arcane controlled constructs, telemancy skills are second to none. With Blood Elves, their skills in other arts such as conjuration and divination can improve and their intelligence would see positive results.

Void Elves are third because they are sort of an off-branch of Mages. Mainly dealing in the ways of the Void and not the arcane schools that the blood elves, nightborne and indeed the night elves of the broken isles as well as the other races, typically use.

I'm not quite sure what Mace is implying here, on the one hand the NIghtborne are better than the blood elves because of their great age and continuous use of magic, but somehow the void elves, who while magical have only just embarked on void studies are somehow better than the Nightborne?

Not to mention the Nightborne have Chronomancy AND arcane, not just arcane, the void elves have arcane and void, except the Ngihtborne have been at chronomancy, telemancy much longer than the void elves have been at void, so technically, for now at least they'd be better both Arcane wise and magical wise, even if the void is a more powerful force.

Let's say void elves are more powerful because of the void, they still won't be better, as they're not that skilled yet or mastered.

[Shadowsgrace]

Void Elf, Best Elf!

[Varodoc]

I have a new appreciation for VEs Frost Mages, simply because of the theme behind it. Void elves live in deep space, space is cold, so Frost mage fits that fantasy perfectly.

Void Elf, Best Elf!

That they are.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

I hate elves the only thing they are good for is adult artwork.

[Shadowsgrace]

I hate elves the only thing they are good for is adult artwork.

Well seeing that Avatar, we can assume you see plenty.

[Varodoc]

I hate elves the only thing they are good for is adult artwork.

Says the guy whose avatar is a generic villain who exists solely for those half-naked fanarts on r/WoW which get 4k upvotes. You are one to talk.