9.0 General Discussion

[Fahrad Wagner]

And ofc Garrosh is a bottom. Did you see the War Crimes cover? He is a BDSM sub.

That's the kind of comment that makes me come back to this thread hehehe!

Also I'm so excited for the animated shorts, those look incredible!

[TheFirstOnes]

"Claustrophobia can still be used to define a situation that makes you feel trapped. Why are you taking a literal definition and saying it’s not valid because I’m not talking about elevators? Go talk semantics elsewhere please. You’re not going to get very far by narrowing down the definition of a word to try and throw off a discussion.

Good god the quality of discussion of this thread has gone down the shitter. It’s probably because barely anything has been happening so we have the same 3 angry people regurgitating the same shit over and over."

Or perhaps you can explain why the more "crowded" zones suck, even though that's the entire point of those zones (Like, for example, Argus). Instead, you and Huth are going on this out of game discussion topic on the meaning of claustrophobia, even though you're then saying "Oh, this discussion is going downhill and fast" like, what?

Just explain to me why you hate these zones outside of "Oh wow, I pull mobs every 2 seconds" as if it doesn't take you 2 seconds just to either kill those mobs, or outrun them.

- - - Updated - - -

That's the kind of comment that makes me come back to this thread hehehe!

Also I'm so excited for the animated shorts, those look incredible!

Same tbh. Warlord Zaela and Garrosh must've been doing some crazy shit then prior to WoD. Explains the bandages on Garrosh.

[Lahis]

They are still active, but will be deactivated in Shadowlands content. Whether this means level 51 or above, any Shadowlands zone or some other arcane means is hard to tell.
But for just the pre-patch it will still be there.

Essences and Azerite traits will be deactivated in Shadowlands. In all other ares they still work, regardless of level.

[Sondrelk]

Essences and Azerite traits will be deactivated in Shadowlands. In all other ares they still work, regardless of level.

So the second option I mentioned then?
Seems like a nightmare to program, but what do I know of Blizzards future plans after Shadowlands when we eventually return to Azeroth, or worse still return to Azeroth in a patch.

[Nagawithlegs]

So the second option I mentioned then?
Seems like a nightmare to program, but what do I know of Blizzards future plans after Shadowlands when we eventually return to Azeroth, or worse still return to Azeroth in a patch.

There won't be a significant lore reason unless they tie in Azerite not working to Azeroth waking up somehow/something going on with Azeroth (foreshadowed by mention of the sword).

Or they won't really give a fuck and not provide a lore reason. There doesn't HAVE to be a lore reason for why the Heart isn't working, the only reason they didn't destroy it this time was because of negative feedback from artifacts being made useless.

Alternatively, we never ever return to Azeroth in modern content ever again. I think this is very unlikely.

[Gaidax]

So the second option I mentioned then?
Seems like a nightmare to program, but what do I know of Blizzards future plans after Shadowlands when we eventually return to Azeroth, or worse still return to Azeroth in a patch.

Pretty sure they will disable these eventually in all but BFA exclusive zones.

[Sondrelk]

There won't be a significant lore reason unless they tie in Azerite not working to Azeroth waking up somehow/something going on with Azeroth (foreshadowed by mention of the sword).

Or they won't really give a fuck and not provide a lore reason. There doesn't HAVE to be a lore reason for why the Heart isn't working, the only reason they didn't destroy it this time was because of negative feedback from artifacts being made useless.

Alternatively, we never ever return to Azeroth in modern content ever again. I think this is very unlikely.

I don't have any problem with the style of thinking that the player can jsut roleplay they are still using whatever amazing artifact they got a couple of expansiosn back. I am talking more about the implications of the HoA not working specifically in Shadowlands zones, which could have problems later considering that it sounds like they would have to keep adding exceptions on where it can't work. Afterall, some of the essences are really good, so taking that comparatively tiny hit in stats could be worth it for, say, the cooldown reduction essence.

But again, if we are just talking about lore implications then that is a meaningless discussion anyways. Nothing is going to convince me that the staff of Sargeras is weaker than a random tidesage staff we found in the Shrine of Storms, even depowered.

[DemonDays]

"Why do you assume that everyone who criticizes the current state of the game must be a Classic lover?" Never said that, dude. Read my post before making assumptions. I was mere making a comparison.

"Nor did I bring up Covenants at all. Were you not discussing whether WoW is a theme park with another poster? Trying to claim it's not?" Once again, making examples for the argument at hand.

"It's the literal definition of a theme park MMO. Always has been." Which you haven't explained WHY yet, but whatever. Not disagreeing with you, but it's hard for me to agree with you as well, considering you're just dragging a topic on without at the very least defending your stance.

"The rest of your wall of text rant has nothing to do with the discussion of theme parks. Jesus." Yes it does. Read it.

- - - Updated - - -



Like, I have my issues with Retail (And trust me, there are a lot), but I hate it a ton when people make baseless claims and throw them out at fact, all while disregarding the idea that they have to present the "why" in their arguments.

I didn't state the game in it's "current form" is a theme park MMO. I stated the game has ALWAYS been a theme park. There is literally no reason to bring up a comparison of the game as it was 15 years ago.

A "theme park" mmo is one with pre-built "rides" designed by the developer for consumption by the player in an orderly fashion. These "rides" tend to look like quest hubs and raids and the like.

Sound familiar? WoW has delved even further into this area in recent years with its over reliance on instanced "rides".

- - - Updated - - -

dont mind him, im sure he will end up banned again soon enough. let him throw a fit until he tires himself out.

I remember when posting things like this was against forum rules. But I guess that's only for a select few people.

[DemonDays]

"Claustrophobia can still be used to define a situation that makes you feel trapped. Why are you taking a literal definition and saying it’s not valid because I’m not talking about elevators? Go talk semantics elsewhere please. You’re not going to get very far by narrowing down the definition of a word to try and throw off a discussion.

Good god the quality of discussion of this thread has gone down the shitter. It’s probably because barely anything has been happening so we have the same 3 angry people regurgitating the same shit over and over."

Or perhaps you can explain why the more "crowded" zones suck, even though that's the entire point of those zones (Like, for example, Argus). Instead, you and Huth are going on this out of game discussion topic on the meaning of claustrophobia, even though you're then saying "Oh, this discussion is going downhill and fast" like, what?

Just explain to me why you hate these zones outside of "Oh wow, I pull mobs every 2 seconds" as if it doesn't take you 2 seconds just to either kill those mobs, or outrun them.

- - - Updated - - -



Same tbh. Warlord Zaela and Garrosh must've been doing some crazy shit then prior to WoD. Explains the bandages on Garrosh.

It has been explained to you repeatedly.

They don't feel like "real" fantasy areas.

When you watch LOTR or other fantasy material are they constantly running into bears and orcs every 10 seconds? Do they cross a road and there is 5 cave systems and ten different types of animals/enemies?

They're too cramped and jam packed. They don't feel immersive or like they could ever exist in a fantasy world.


There is a quest giving town and then literally 100meters away through a rocky outcrop there is a pirate cove? The pirates haven't been discovered yet?

[therumblings]

There is a quest giving town and then literally 100meters away through a rocky outcrop there is a pirate cove? The pirates haven't been discovered yet?

This is mostly because in game scale is nowhere near the scale of Azeroth in lore. It takes weeks to traverse through Feralas but in game it will take you a minute or two.

[spleen1015]

So, making sure I understand this. As of now, we just keep wearing the HOA until we get a neck in SL that is better than it? Then, I guess we keep it in our bags like Legion legendaries? Seems kind of lame, yeah?

This also reminds me, we still have this big ass sword sticking out of the planet. Are we just leaving it there?

[gunner_recall]

So, making sure I understand this. As of now, we just keep wearing the HOA until we get a neck in SL that is better than it? Then, I guess we keep it in our bags like Legion legendaries? Seems kind of lame, yeah?

This also reminds me, we still have this big ass sword sticking out of the planet. Are we just leaving it there?

Yeah, don't worry about that. It's for the aesthetic, really ties Silithus together.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I mean how exactly are we going to pull it out???

Honestly, the Ardenweald plays just show the perfect amount of incredulity on how half-assed "epic" storytelling ends up.

Its a Fantasy world, there's probably dozens of way to do it "Half assed" more like "I WANT ANSWERS NAO DAMN IT I AM ENTITLED"

[SirBeef]

This is mostly because in game scale is nowhere near the scale of Azeroth in lore. It takes weeks to traverse through Feralas but in game it will take you a minute or two.

Yup, it takes a week to get to crossroads from Org by mount. SW is home to 200K citizens. They tried making a city to scale sort of in GW2. It needed fucking teleports in it to make traversing it palatable. Scale like this just never works in game.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean how exactly are we going to pull it out???

Honestly, the Ardenweald plays just show the perfect amount of incredulity on how half-assed "epic" storytelling ends up.

Gnomes to shrink it, Goblins to blow it up, or both.

[Monster Hunter]

I definitely see the Kyrian ability not being easy to get consistent results from as fire, the rotation is simply too proc based for that and your filler spell hits like a wet noodle to begin with. Arcane though? Looks by far the most traight forward to me, as long as you manage to land a 4 charge AB at as the 3rd/4th spell it should work fine, shouldn't it? Frost seems to be more a mixed bag here simply because we still want to use the well timed (and positioned) effects of our spells and lining it up with RS works against the core mechanic in some ways. Also the soulbinds are kinda.. "eh, what ever". It really annoys me that they have no soulbind with 3pot+1fin path, as I'd really like to take the cooldown reduction for interrupt without sacrificing DPS.

Night Fae is simply good because of the CD reduction and will probably have some break points for certain fights. It's also the prettiest ability because the guy that made the effects only cared when doing night fae abilities I guess oO.

Venthyr should also work with melee abilities, so it should still have some decent use in boss fights. But I agree that for most normal enemies it will be hard to get even remotely close to being fully used. The covenant soulbind conduit seems to be utterly broken though if you can line it up with your dps cooldowns (and depending on if the effect refreshes for each new stack, otherwise it would be extremeley niche I guess).

I agree with the necrolord one, it's simple and effective. Also extremely broken for Arcane compared to the other 2 specs.

Btw it's kinda annoying how most of the soulbinds are made in a way that you will inadvertedly only pick the potency options because there is no way 2-5% buffs with 10-50% uptime will ever beat any of your core abilities' higher ranks unless you can fully specialize into ST or AoE for some reason.

Aye I agree with most of what you said.

The kyrian issue is different for the 3 specs

Arcane simply lacks the haste to use the 4 charges with blasts so ur praying on or needing to bank a missiles line up to use it optimally enough and even then the dps gain feels meh

The Venthyr is sooobit and miss, half the problem is in reality a boss actualy spend the vast majority of its time just auto attacking even today try an imagine that ability on something like vexiona or even ra den, the time between actual abity casts is very long even though the effect of the cast can last a while.

My only real issue with the nigh fea is its really clunky to use with arcane, arcane has huge burst but a long set up and then there's evocation, frost and fire it feels fine if you ever wanted evocation like ability for frost and fire.... But I agree there's probly alot of min max potential there

But with all that, the flat 10% spell dmg into ur Brust necro Lords offers and a decent cd is just the stand out, yea it ads more set up time cos you hae to cast the necro form but I've gotten my arcane mage to bursting 13k where I can't get any other class to burst above 5k though I've not tried all of them yet

[razorpax]

Prediction
Pre-patch release date: September 28.
SL release date: October 30.

It would be the 27th

No way they launch SL on a weekend

[gunner_recall]

Aye I agree with most of what you said.

The kyrian issue is different for the 3 specs

Arcane simply lacks the haste to use the 4 charges with blasts so ur praying on or needing to bank a missiles line up to use it optimally enough and even then the dps gain feels meh

The Venthyr is sooobit and miss, half the problem is in reality a boss actualy spend the vast majority of its time just auto attacking even today try an imagine that ability on something like vexiona or even ra den, the time between actual abity casts is very long even though the effect of the cast can last a while.

My only real issue with the nigh fea is its really clunky to use with arcane, arcane has huge burst but a long set up and then there's evocation, frost and fire it feels fine if you ever wanted evocation like ability for frost and fire.... But I agree there's probly alot of min max potential there

But with all that, the flat 10% spell dmg into ur Brust necro Lords offers and a decent cd is just the stand out, yea it ads more set up time cos you hae to cast the necro form but I've gotten my arcane mage to bursting 13k where I can't get any other class to burst above 5k though I've not tried all of them yet

The issue I have with radiant spark is that it's another button to hit in our already proc heavy rotations. I don't see the problem with arcane, I suppose, since it's only really building and spending but fire and frost are fishing for procs to do damage. I feel like adding an extra button into those rotations makes them clunkier.

Mirror of Torments seems good except for bosses who can't be slowed or rooted. But for PvP it seems to be the better choice, and probably not bad for dungeons where the fights are gonna go a little quicker.

Night Fae ability seems bad. It has a small range and it's channeled. I guess it can help you get your cds back quicker but that doesn't seem like a good trade off.

S K E L L I N G T O N seems like it's really good for all 3 specs, since it's just a straight up buff and adds cleave to your main nuke.

Ranking them, I would say S K E L L I N G T O N & Mirror of Torment are relatively close, radiant spark is probably the next best choice and no one should take the Night Fae one.

[Monster Hunter]

The issue I have with radiant spark is that it's another button to hit in our already proc heavy rotations. I don't see the problem with arcane, I suppose, since it's only really building and spending but fire and frost are fishing for procs to do damage. I feel like adding an extra button into those rotations makes them clunkier.

Mirror of Torments seems good except for bosses who can't be slowed or rooted. But for PvP it seems to be the better choice, and probably not bad for dungeons where the fights are gonna go a little quicker.

Night Fae ability seems bad. It has a small range and it's channeled. I guess it can help you get your cds back quicker but that doesn't seem like a good trade off.

S K E L L I N G T O N seems like it's really good for all 3 specs, since it's just a straight up buff and adds cleave to your main nuke.

Ranking them, I would say S K E L L I N G T O N & Mirror of Torment are relatively close, radiant spark is probably the next best choice and no one should take the Night Fae one.

Mmmm I mean I think we agree skellington is basicly the best,

The night fea ability damdge is.... Yea it's OK range but ur not gonna want to be in near melee range to do it let's face it. Mirrors might be good in a mob that spam casts in m+ but in melee mobs and bosses who mostly auto attack its useless so for pve I just can't see it being preferable to the other options, also the other Venthyr abilities dosnt give us a thing we don't allready have better, we can invis to mob skip and blink without needing to cast.

Low rated pvp and rbg's is probly where u get the most, but the big issue..... The mirrors are dispelable which kinda kills it in any pvp against competent opponents,

[gunner_recall]

Mmmm I mean I think we agree skellington is basicly the best,

The night fea ability damdge is.... Yea it's OK range but ur not gonna want to be in near melee range to do it let's face it. Mirrors might be good in a mob that spam casts in m+ but in melee mobs and bosses who mostly auto attack its useless so for pve I just can't see it being preferable to the other options, also the other Venthyr abilities dosnt give us a thing we don't allready have better, we can invis to mob skip and blink without needing to cast.

Low rated pvp and rbg's is probly where u get the most, but the big issue..... The mirrors are dispelable which kinda kills it in any pvp against competent opponents,

I had no idea the mirrors were dispellable.

That makes that ability so much worse.

[Monster Hunter]

I had no idea the mirrors were dispellable.

That makes that ability so much worse.

It kinda kills its only real major use which Is pvp. Dunno if they will change it though but it is inline with similar abilities