Blizzard screws the Loyalists over in Shadowlands

[Skulltaker]

Sylvanas stans don't realise they're in an abusive relationship

Relationship would imply they are getting something out of it. They are simply being abused, and ask for more.

[AcidContainer]

Well look the people that actually loved the game and was apart of the game are either gone or silenced. Lets not pretend that this decade has seen the woke sjw bullshit which people growing up in the past 10 years unfortunately think is totally normal as its become normalised over a generation. There is no more love for this game, its just corporation controlled and anyone that actually cares for it is long gone now. It is what it is. I regret buying shadowlands months and months ago, WoW is dead and thats all there is to it. But if you don't care about any of that behind the scenes reality stuff then keep on collecting them mounts inbetween gated content designed around the casual and whale player model.

[Arrashi]

Sylvanas stans don't realise they're in an abusive relationship

Or (shocking thought) people like doing evil playthroughts.

[Lorianus]

Why is this even under the lore category?, WoW is not a single player RPG where your choices can affect the world around you permanently, all there ever was is flavor.

Those new flavor choices they hand out cant and will never affect anything in a MULTIPLAYER MMO, without gating and fragmenting the player base into their own little choice based layers/phases and that in my opinion will never happen.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Imagine being loyal to a genocidal, life hating, walking corpse.

[Nerovar]

Well anyone who this late in the game's narrative trusts blizzard to pull off big mistery plans properly, quite honestly deserves to be disappointed. The hints that something ain't right have been there since Wrath.

Yeah, I probably agree with you there. But it's Blizzard. They could have pulled a "she was right all along" plottwist out of their asses. Then again, that would have been a really questionable narrative "Genocide is A-OK if you serve a higher purpose".

The way they ended up handling it, it would have been more believable for people to support the Lich King than to keep fighting for Sylvanas.

Or (shocking thought) people like doing evil playthroughts.

I mean, when has WoW ever given you that choice though?

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Why is this even under the lore category?, WoW is not a single player RPG where your choices can affect the world around you permanently, all there ever was is flavor.

Those new flavor choices they hand out cant and will never affect anything in a MULTIPLAYER MMO, without gating and fragmenting the player base into their own little choice based layers/phases and that in my opinion will never happen.

ESO does it very well.

[bowlink]

Or (shocking thought) people like doing evil playthroughts.

Some do (your typical edgelords, like that guild with only male undead all called a variation of abomination on ravencrest eu i think)

some don't ( these people might have an unadressed mental issue and may neef professinal help).

Infracted.

[Skayth]

This sheep instinct of following whoever is wearing the Warchief hat this week without question is exactly why that position had to go. The Horde excells at turning their brain off whenever some shouts "For the Horde", even if that someone is complete and utterly unworthy of that position as everyone knows.

Well, thats the thing. All the leaders had to do was challenge Sylvannas to Mak'Gora if they were against what she was doing. Instead, they decided to go behind everyone's back and ally with the enemy, making them traitors. Was it for the right reasons? Maybe? but they are still traitors. THey should have solved it within the Horde. As a soldier, you are to follow orders. Can you question them? sure. But, since we were never given the opportunity as the CHARACTER to challenge Sylvannas to Mak'gora (which they should have allowed and just let us get our asses handed to us to appease), You are either a loyal horde soldier or a traitor to the horde. There is no inbetween, sadly.

As a loyalist, I would have killed Baine myself. He is an alliance character. Or just resurrect Cairne ffs. But, I would have called Sylvannas into Mak'gora the moment she decided to burn Teldrassil. Hell, VAROK should have done it at that very moment! Sadly, with little choice, as a loyalist, Im stuck being Nazgrim, not liking what the horde does, but Im still loyal to the horde out of honor.

So true. Sylvanas, who has never done anything wrong in her life ever, and certainly not blighted a kingdom called Gilneas, just wanted to become immortal by enslaving one of our allies and that evil monster Genn, who has no history with Sylvanas whatsoever, just attacked her for no reason at all. /s

Stormheim was AN EXCUSE not JUSTIFICATION. Sylvanas started a war because she needed people to die, without Stormheim she'd have taken Dalaran or Taurajo as an excuse. How did this not get through by now? She started the war because she wanted to start a war, stop believing her propaganda like a sheep.

I dont believe her propaganda like sheep. But the fact of the matter is, the Alliance struck first in this war. You cannot take that away, and it simply gives fuel to her agenda. If Genn did not strike first, maybe the Horde leaders would not have been so quick to behind Sylvannas, once azerite was discovered. It comes down to the fact the Alliance attacked the Horde for NO REASON during a war with the LEGION. Genn had a hard on to try and get petty revenge on sylvannas for her being FORCED to attack gilneas.

The cycle of hatred continues.

[Skulltaker]

Or (shocking thought) people like doing evil playthroughts.

There are roleplaying games for that.

[Arrashi]

I mean, when has WoW ever given you that choice though?

Shovel quest. + many if not most of forsaken quests definately have a very questionable nature.

[Chonar]

There are roleplaying games for that.

I can see the future.
Big brain edgelord coming at ya with the game genre's abbreviation in 3.. 2...

[Arrashi]

There are roleplaying games for that.

MMORPG with Role-playing servers, with blizzard outright pretending to give players choice instead of saying "No, feel sorry for sad orc NOW".

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Some do (your typical edgelords, like that guild with only male undead all called a variation of abomination on ravencrest eu i think)

some don't ( these people might have an unadressed mental issue and may neef professinal help).

Is that the best you can do. Still i will take edgelords for any RP session over generic "My character is human paladin who believes in justice" guys.

[deviantcultist]

It also seems like keeping the gift of Nzoth hasn't had any impact at all despite what has been said in Blizzcon.

[Skulltaker]

I can see the future.
Big brain edgelord coming at ya with the game genre's abbreviation in 3.. 2...

Sometimes I really love life.

MMORPG with Role-playing servers, with blizzard outright pretending to give players choice instead of saying "No, feel sorry for sad orc NOW".

Yeah, that's cute and all. But if you bothered to think for a moment you'd realize it never was. You know why?

Because your character isn't the center of the story. If WoW was a pen and paper, you'd be the named NPCs the players drag along to carry their stuff and to fight their fights. You don't even get a last name. You get the worthless shit (loot, glory) and you get to get to sacrifice for your faction.

As you've said, WoW always ever gives you the illusion of choice. Nothing you, as a player, do, matters in the end. The story is driven by the guys who get last names. They decide what's going to happen.

Did the players ever get the choice to engage in this war, or not? To invade KulTiras or Zandalar? To venture to Icecrown? Outland? Draenor? Pandaria? Can you choose to raid the story raids, or explore the new story zones?

No. You don't. You can play along in the story, it's end already written out as you start your journey, or you stop playing. That's the choice you get. And while you waltz along with the story that is written for you, you get to make some choice of flavor. Race. Sex. Class. If you're very very lucky, a dialogue option. But nothing of consequence. If all PCs had picked Sylvanas' side, do you think that would have changed the story?

No. The story you're supposed to 'write' is finished before you start. That has always been the case in WoW, and it will stay that way because it's the only way a game like WoW works.

[Wangming]

ESO does it very well.

And so does SWTOR for that matter. Out of your companions it is up to you to play FMK with them any way you like. Hell by the time you reach Zakuul you can opt to just simply not recruit some of them.

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it's the only way a game like WoW works.

Define Game like WoW, cause it sure as hell ain't true for all MMOs.

[Arrashi]

Sometimes I really love life.



Yeah, that's cute and all. But if you bothered to think for a moment you'd realize it never was. You know why?

Because your character isn't the center of the story. If WoW was a pen and paper, you'd be the named NPCs the players drag along to carry their stuff and to fight their fights. You don't even get a last name. You get the worthless shit (loot, glory) and you get to get to sacrifice for your faction.

As you've said, WoW always ever gives you the illusion of choice. Nothing you, as a player, do, matters in the end. The story is driven by the guys who get last names. They decide what's going to happen.

Then perhaps don't write story that invalidates vision of huge chunk of playerbase, especially after you already stepped into same landmine with garrosh and orc playerbase.

The entire issue also comes from blizzard outright lying. If they just said from start "Its just reharsh of MOP" people would bitch for a few weeks and then would stop. But because blizzard was doing all that facade people have all the right to be annoyed.

[Yarathir]

If you had paid attention to the story, you'd have seen she was betrayed by the horde, not the other way around.

Yes. The Horde colluded with enemies of life, such as Helya, Azshara and the Jailer. Not Sylvanas.

[Skulltaker]

Define Game like WoW, cause it sure as hell ain't true for all MMOs.

A game that appeals to a broad variety of gamers with an epic storyline which is told in episodes.

What MMO actually gives you the chance to influence the outcome of the story?

In SWTOR you have your individual story that you can influence, but that doesn't affect other players, does it?

In FFARR, I don't recall you being able to change the story at all, but i've only played that briefly.

I've only played ESO in 'vanilla', but I don't recall you having an outcome on the games story.

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Then perhaps don't write story that invalidates vision of huge chunk of playerbase, especially after you already stepped into same landmine with garrosh and orc playerbase.

The entire issue also comes from blizzard outright lying. If they just said from start "Its just reharsh of MOP" people would bitch for a few weeks and then would stop. But because blizzard was doing all that facade people have all the right to be annoyed.

But that's not WoW, it's never been WoW, and it won't be WoW. I really don't understand how people keep falling for that.

WoW has never ever given you the chance to change the outcome. Why did people suddenly expect that to be true?

And what Issue, precisely? That people allowed themselves to concoct an illusion of their choices mattering? Sure, I agree, it wasn't nice of them lying. But, you know, if it walks like a Garrosh, talks like a Garrosh, and genocides like a Garrosh, I'm pretty sure that's going to give you a Garrosh. Them lying to you isn't half as bad as all the people who sided with Sylvanas lying to themselves.

It's quite an interesting social experiment, though. Kind of reminiscent of the story of the book 'The Wave'. They followed like sheep, and now they are bleating about getting slaughtered.

[Chonar]

Imagine being loyal to a genocidal, life hating, walking corpse.

It's a bit hard to fathom. Maybe if she had orange skin and a bad hairpiece.

Infracted.