[Spoilers] Shadowlands: Afterlives Cinematic Discussion

[Piamonte]

Sylvanas' soul could have also been split into two and we could be facing the bad one while the good one is in a plane

i remember that in the silvanas short story, when she goes to the maw, she says something along the lines of "my soul finally being whole"

[Varodoc]

Still doesn't explain why the trapped part of Uther's spirit (the part that had actually "forgiven" Arthas) didn't return to him after Frostmourne was shattered.

Also if the Light intervened to save Uther's soul... Why wasn't he with the Light?

It did return to him. That's why he hesitated to throw Arthas into the Maw, whereas before he was 100% set on punishing him. That moment of hesitation indicated that the merciful half of his soul had returned to him.

[Aucald]

Still doesn't explain why the trapped part of Uther's spirit (the part that had actually "forgiven" Arthas) didn't return to him after Frostmourne was shattered.

It couldn't? A Kyrian had already brought him to Bastion at the time, meaning part of his spirit was already in another reality. The part left in Frostmourne is now presumably stuck as a phantom on Azeroth, explaining why it reappears in Legion. Uther is apparently unaware of his own incompleteness, so there's no call for anyone from the Shadowlands to go reconcile his now fragmented essence. Again, this is probably going to be a Kyrian Covenant plot-point given that Uther is pretty key player in the Forsworn storyline.

There is a data-mined non-Forsworn version of an Ascendent Uther, which would make a lot of sense in a story where Uther's fractured soul was later repaired by the PC.

[Traveler Voltin]

Still doesn't explain why the trapped part of Uther's spirit (the part that had actually "forgiven" Arthas) didn't return to him after Frostmourne was shattered.

Also if the Light intervened to save Uther's soul... Why wasn't he with the Light?

could be it didnt return right away. arent some of the SL spoilers saying that Uther regrets putting Arthas in the maw?

[Goldielocks]

I don't think we really encounter enough of Uther in Frostmourne to really judge his mental state. Also, the Uther in Bastion doesn't really strike me as being insane or otherwise not of sound mind - he's stuck, certainly, but there's good reason for that and he doesn't come across as unhinged or the like. He seems tired and frustrated with Bastion's process, but that's not necessarily without reason. He's also hurt, as evidenced by the scar he shows Devos.

I disagree. We get more than enough of him in Halls of Reflection. His visage is exactly like what he looked like in WC3, his voice is the same, his mannerisms are the same. Everything is the same.

This all gets much worse if they confirm Uther is not special in this, because Terenas is an even more obvious inconsistency.

[Moonrage]

I am surprised that there were no sign of night elves in the trailer. Good. I don't like these whiny wood dwellers.

Why surprised? There was exactly 1 cinematic in BFA that featured Night Elves. 2 if you count Warbringers Azshara but that's it.

[NED funded]

Just think of it, if Uther acted this way from being killed by Frostmourne it could do the same, if not worse, to Sylvanas. She had the corruption of the Maw in her all along, more than Uther did which explains the dripping mascra scars and the blood-red eyes and blue/lavender skin.

I would legitimately cancel my subscription the moment they did this.

Like can you imagine "Sylvanas wasnt evil she was just corrupted" or some shit like that

[Varodoc]

I disagree. We get more than enough of him in Halls of Reflection. His visage is exactly like what he looked like in WC3, his voice is the same, his mannerisms are the same. Everything is the same.

This all gets much worse if they confirm Uther is not special in this, because Terenas is an even more obvious inconsistency.

Honestly Terenas always seemed too forgiving with Arthas. This is the man who betrayed and killed him, butchered his people, and ruined everything he built in 70 years. Yet in the end Terenas embraced and comforted his son as he was dying in his arms. I suppose the same thing happened to him. His merciful half remained on Azeroth, while his vengeful half went to the Shadowlands.

Much like Uther, Terenas was slain by Frostmourne but never raised as undead. So he is special too.

[Aucald]

I disagree. We get more than enough of him in Halls of Reflection. His visage is exactly like what he looked like in WC3, his voice is the same, his mannerisms are the same. Everything is the same.

This all gets much worse if they confirm Uther is not special in this, because Terenas is an even more obvious inconsistency.

Again, the version of him in Bastion also isn't unhinged - so perhaps he's just effectively duplicated. I always felt the Uther we see in HoR and ICC was awfully conciliatory towards the man (Arthas) who killed him, killed his king, and ground his homeland into the dust. This is why I think the Uther we see in Frostmourne isn't completely the true Uther either, but just a portion of him.

We don't really know if Uther's plight translates to anyone else or not, too; so I wouldn't go down that road just yet. It's possible, but pretty uncomfirmed.

[Nerovar]

It couldn't? A Kyrian had already brought him to Bastion at the time, meaning part of his spirit was already in another reality. The part left in Frostmourne is now presumably stuck as a phantom on Azeroth, explaining why it reappears in Legion. Uther is apparently unaware of his own incompleteness, so there's no call for anyone from the Shadowlands to go reconcile his now fragmented essence. Again, this is probably going to be a Kyrian Covenant plot-point given that Uther is pretty key player in the Forsworn storyline.

There is a data-mined non-Forsworn version of an Ascendent Uther, which would make a lot of sense in a story where Uther's fractured soul was later repaired by the PC.

Doesn't explain the second half of my post. If the Light saved his soul from being consumed by Frostmourne, why didn't his soul go into the Light?

[taishar68]

Still doesn't explain why the trapped part of Uther's spirit (the part that had actually "forgiven" Arthas) didn't return to him after Frostmourne was shattered.

Also if the Light intervened to save Uther's soul... Why wasn't he with the Light?

Well, a few things:

Perhaps the part of his soul that was in Frostmourne did return; note his moment of doubt and sorrow before he lets go of Arthas; also, perhaps the Light is not all powerful, and the best it could do against Frostmourne was a draw, which split the soul. Perhaps the Light doesn't have a particualr afterlife for its adherents, so some go to Bastion, some to Ardenweald, maybe any plane of the afterlife. Perhaps Uther was sent to Bastion because that is where he was destined. Just not all of him, thanks to Arthas.

[Aucald]

Doesn't explain the second half of my post. If the Light saved his soul from being consumed by Frostmourne, why didn't his soul go into the Light?

The Light is a force, not really a destination. The Light is also inscrutable and often acts in contrary and unexplained fashions, so the basic answer to that we don't know. Perhaps the Light only stopped Frostmourne from consuming him completely, but wasn't really able to also fend off Devos who apparently came personally for his soul.

[Goldielocks]

Again, the version of him in Bastion also isn't unhinged - so perhaps he's just effectively duplicated. I always felt the Uther we see in HoR and ICC was awfully conciliatory towards the man (Arthas) who killed him, killed his king, and ground his homeland into the dust. This is why I think the Uther we see in Frostmourne isn't completely the true Uther either, but just a portion of him.

We don't really know if Uther's plight translates to anyone else or not, too; so I wouldn't go down that road just yet. It's possible, but pretty uncomfirmed.

I don’t mean unhinged. I mean literally any evidence whatsoever of damage. There is none. But this cinematic has lots of it. Something is wrong with Uther. Not unhinged. Just damaged, or not whole. His soul has a wound for crying out loud.

It’s not consistent.

Honestly Terenas always seemed too forgiving with Arthas. This is the magn who betrayed and killed him, butchered his people, and ruined everything he built in 70 years. Yet in the end Terenas embraced and comforted his son as he was dying in his arms. I suppose the same thing happened to him. His merciful half remained on Azeroth, while his vengeful half went to the Shadowlands.

Much like Uther, Terenas was slain by Frostmourne but never raised as undead. So he is special too.

That’s not how necromancy works, though. The body is raised by an external power. That’s why Death Knights don’t have souls. Arthas didn’t have one. This is confirmed in WC3 by a Dreadlord (Mal’ganis or Tichondrious I don’t remember).

Meanwhile, Terenas was able to fucking resurrect you after he was released from the blade. You expect me to believe a half soul can do that?

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

i remember that in the silvanas short story, when she goes to the maw, she says something along the lines of "my soul finally being whole"

The Shadowlands are infinite. I think her Ranger General soul was sent somewhere between Bastion and Ardenweld while the other one is so full of Maw energy that it's being used and manipulated by the Maw and the Jailor since it was raised.

[Aucald]

I don’t mean unhinged. I mean literally any evidence whatsoever of damage. There is none. But this cinematic has lots of it. Something is wrong with Uther. Not unhinged. Just damaged, or not whole. His soul has a wound for crying out loud.

It’s not consistent.

Uther's wound in Bastion is concealable beneath the tunic his wears, and in ICC/HoR Uther is show wearing his full armor and such. Perhaps beneath that his soul is also wounded - or perhaps the version of Uther in ICC/HoR doesn't show the wound because it's just a fragment, and the majority of Uther (the "real" Uther) is the one in Bastion.

[bagina]

I would legitimately cancel my subscription the moment they did this.

Like can you imagine "Sylvanas wasnt evil she was just corrupted" or some shit like that

I very much don't want this, I prefer Sylvanas to have agency. Well as much as Blizzard allows her nowadays. But IF they try to whitewash Arthas then I'm gonna be butthurt


BY THE WAY, why did Uther and Devos even interfere with Arthas' judgement? He would've been sent to the Maw anyway. So what the hell? It seemed completely unnecessary. Uther would've had his justice without being told he's wrong for not being a spineless, apathetic "ascended".

[Sarethion]

let's remember that arthas massacred a city

Which to be honest was a perfectly reasonable decision, because a lot of the inhabitants were infected by the plague and there was no time to look for a cure, so they were basically already dead. If Arthas didn't purge the city then not only would most of these people likely die, but their undead forms would kill even more people elsewhere.

Regardless, no matter what you think about the purge of Stratholme, the fact is that Arthas didn't do it, because he wanted to murder people. In his mind, he was saving them from undeath and protecting the realm from the Scourge. As horrible as the act was, his motivation was good.

let's remember that arthas betrayed his men, that he betrayed the mercenaries, that he almost killed muradin

As much as some of these might be attributed to Arthas being lost in his thirst for vengeance, it's totally possible that there was a shred of noble motivation there, because Arthas has seen Mal'ganis as a major threat to his people and from his perspective, betraying the men and the mercenaries could have been a lesser evil than letting the dreadlord live and continue spreading the plague in Lordaeron.

Also, Arthas didn't touch Muradin - the shards from Frostmourne's pedestal almost killed him, which Arthas had no way of predicting. All that Arthas did was leave Muradin to die and by that time, he already had his soul scarred by the blade.

[Zandalariprelate]

I love how they said Arthas wasn't going to be prominent and yet we see him at every promotion material and his voice actor is present at the Jailer and I think a few more characters.

Now the whole thing about Frostmourne has become a meme "steals souls but not really"

[Rhlor]

That was a pretty interesting take and re-contexualization of Arthas' death. TL;DW basically boils down to:

• Frostmourne stole a portion of Uther's soul before his delivery to Bastion, leaving his soul wounded and him unable to move on.
• Devos took personal charge of Uther's ascension, and discovered that Arthas and Frostmourne were implements of the Maw.
• Kyrestia the Firstborne doesn't seem to buy this or otherwise care, perhaps continuing to feel that the Jailer was still in check within the Maw.
• Devos decides to allow Uther his justice (or vengeance), and collects Arthas' soul on his death at Icecrown Citadel.
• Uther and Devos hurl Arthas' soul into the Maw directly, with Uther having a moment of conflicted doubt (and Devos being the one to remind him of his need for vengeance).

devos did nothing wrong!

[Aucald]

I would legitimately cancel my subscription the moment they did this.

Like can you imagine "Sylvanas wasnt evil she was just corrupted" or some shit like that

Technically Sylvanas *was* corrupted, but by Arthas, when he slaughtered her and turned her into a Banshee back in WC3 - a Banshee being a creature born from hatred and rage. Sylvanas has been corrupted since she was reborn as an undead being.