[Spoilers] Shadowlands: Afterlives Cinematic Discussion

[StillMcfuu]

This definitely causes more issues than any story telling gains can be pulled from it.

The light did an awful job saving him if the part of him that was pulled into FM is more like Uther than the side that went on to SL.

Also killing the "light" saved him theory is we've seen the Light save people before in Crusader Bridenbrad.

[Dannihilate]

So Uther becomes Arbiter for Arthas and STILL ascend to be a Kyrian?

For all we know, it was THIS act that "broke the machine of death" in the first place, putting the Arbiter in a coma and allowing The Jailer to start amassing power by taking all the souls for himself.

[KainneAbsolute]

I think we can agree that Blizzard can explain Uther in some way. For me, the big question is: the intervention of Uther over Arthas Soul damaged the Machine of Death? Uther was able to evade the judgement of the Arbiter? What if Arthas did not deserve to go to the Maw?

[Aucald]

devos did nothing wrong!

Arguable here at least, but later on in the Bastion story-arc Devos takes a decided turn for the worse.

[MikeBogina]

So Arthas was never judged, REDEMPTION INCOMING

Also also also....

Slyvanas was tricked, when she died, she was brought to the Maw by Valkyr, when she should have been judged. She was tricked into thinking her soul was damned from the start and never went through the correct process.

REDEMPTION INCOMING

[KaiserSolarius]

Kael'thas joined an omnicidal Fel cult and aided them in their attempt to defeat the last real obstacle in their crusade to wipe out all life in creation. He still went to Revendreth.

It all depends in what "irredeemable" means. If it's "He did things so EVULZ he doesn't deserve we even try to reform him", sure, Kael and a bunch of others deserve the Maw. But if it's a case of "If there's a chance to change him we should try", then Ravendreth must be pretty busy and I don't see a whole lot of people who can be sent to the Maw with that logic.

[Nagawithlegs]

Slyvanas was tricked, when she died, she was brought to the Maw by Valkyr, when she should have been judged. She was tricked into thinking her soul was damned from the start and never went through the correct process.

REDEMPTION INCOMING

Redemption is a strong word. More likely she will have a moment of clarity that she was manipulated, but she's still going to pay for her crimes in some sort.

Hell they may have her have a moment of clarity and then say "fuck it, I still hate everything" to cement her status as evil.

[Goldielocks]

Uther's wound in Bastion is concealable beneath the tunic his wears, and in ICC/HoR Uther is show wearing his full armor and such. Perhaps beneath that his soul is also wounded - or perhaps the version of Uther in ICC/HoR doesn't show the wound because it's just a fragment, and the majority of Uther (the "real" Uther) is the one in Bastion.

Uther being “off” was obvious far before his wound was shown. That’s not a requirement.

[Aucald]

For all we know, it was THIS act that "broke the machine of death" in the first place, putting the Arbiter in a coma and allowing The Jailer to start amassing power by taking all the souls for himself.

The machine of death was broken in Legion, around the time Sylvanas was toying with the Soulcage and had imprisoned Eyir - this is confirmed in Ardenweald as Ysera (who died at Val'Sharah) was one of the last of the souls to come to the Shadowlands. Arthas, in this case, appears to be a soul who wasn't properly judged by the Arbiter because Uther and Devos decided to judge and punish him directly.

[Mehrunes]

He didn't wield the power of the Maw. Even if the Burning Legion had wiped out all existence, it wouldn't have been impossible to overcome for the Shadowlands. The power of the Jailer unchecked is, however.

Neither did Sylvanas at the end of WotLK. She still went to the Maw. On the other hand there's a chance that Arthas, who did wield the power of the Maw, may have been yeeted into it unjustly. Also, had Sargeras corrupted Azeroth and completed his Dark Pantheon plan, why exactly wouldn't he be a threat to the Shadowlands? Especially given how their magic uses souls as fuel, which directly makes them a threat for Shadowlands.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Maybe the denizens of the Shadowlands can't interfere in the world of the living, which explains why they left the shards of Frostmourne behind.

The coconut peddler that was Vol'jin's arch-nemesis was taken out by Bwonsamdi.

Bwonsamdi was also a former mortal who was 'ascended' into Loahood by... well another Loa. He can practically go wherever he wants to in Azeroth/the Shadowlands

Zalazane was also troll Nagash, he deserved that nuke

[Nerovar]

The Light is a force, not really a destination. The Light is also inscrutable and often acts in contrary and unexplained fashions, so the basic answer to that we don't know. Perhaps the Light only stopped Frostmourne from consuming him completely, but wasn't really able to also fend off Devos who apparently came personally for his soul.

What about Crusader Bridenbrad? I mean, maybe the Naaru just lied and simply sniffed out his life but that seems terribly contrived.

[Aucald]

Uther being “off” was obvious far before his wound was shown. That’s not a requirement.

I agree he was "off," but his being off is both understandable and explained in the story. The version of Uther in Frostmourne was also kind of "off" in retrospect.

[Varodoc]

I don’t mean unhinged. I mean literally any evidence whatsoever of damage. There is none. But this cinematic has lots of it. Something is wrong with Uther. Not unhinged. Just damaged, or not whole. His soul has a wound for crying out loud.

It’s not consistent.

That’s not how necromancy works, though. The body is raised by an external power. That’s why Death Knights don’t have souls. Arthas didn’t have one. This is confirmed in WC3 by a Dreadlord (Mal’ganis or Tichondrious I don’t remember).

Meanwhile, Terenas was able to fucking resurrect you after he was released from the blade. You expect me to believe a half soul can do that?

Wrong, that is exactly how necromancy works. Dark Ranger Velonara confirms this:

I fell in battle as the mad prince cut a black scar through the land I loved. But at least I was at peace, I suppose. For a time. Until the Banshee Queen pulled me back from beyond and damned my soul into her service.

When Velonara died in battle, her soul went to the Shadowlands. When Sylvanas raised her as undead, her soul was literally pulled from the Shadowlands and forced back into Azeroth.

But Uther was never raised into undeath. Neither was Terenas. So the fractions of their souls that went to Shadowlands were never forced back into Azeroth, were never made whole again.

[MrLachyG]

For all we know, it was THIS act that "broke the machine of death" in the first place, putting the Arbiter in a coma and allowing The Jailer to start amassing power by taking all the souls for himself.

i thought that happened in Legion? Probably when Genn Greymane broke that lantern that Sylvanas was using.

[NED funded]

So Uther becomes Arbiter for Arthas and STILL ascend to be a Kyrian?

Its probable that anyone can be ascended they are just careful on who they ascend and have them forget their memories so no one pulls an Uther

[bagina]

For all we know, it was THIS act that "broke the machine of death" in the first place, putting the Arbiter in a coma and allowing The Jailer to start amassing power by taking all the souls for himself.

I think we can agree that Blizzard can explain Uther in some way. For me, the big question is: the intervention of Uther over Arthas Soul damaged the Machine of Death? Uther was able to evade the judgement of the Arbiter? What if Arthas did not deserve to go to the Maw?

The machine was already long broken. Frostmourne raising the dead hello?

[Snuffe]

So Arthas was wrongfully throwed into the maw?

Nice!. I would have hated a redemption story. Let him climb back upp, imbued with the power of the maw, with vengance in mind and wreak havoc once more.

[Rhlor]

Arguable here at least, but later on in the Bastion story-arc Devos takes a decided turn for the worse.

devos wanted to help stop arthas and sent him the maw! that for me is a good thing! devos is the real hero here!

[Aucald]

What about Crusader Bridenbrad? I mean, maybe the Naaru just lied and simply sniffed out his life but that seems terribly contrived.

We have no idea what the Naaru did with Bridenbrad, just that they supposedly took him to "paradise." Perhaps they delivered him directly to Oribos knowing the Arbiter would judge him well, as he was a good person in life. Perhaps they delivered him to a special afterlife realm of their choosing. It's a closed box concerning Bridenbrad's ultimate fate and we're not privy to its outcome.