[Spoilers] Shadowlands: Afterlives Cinematic Discussion

[Nagawithlegs]

They also are not going to get into the Light Afterlife for a while, considering we have yet to see the Void one and this expansion makes it clear that those forces of magic have their own planes of reality.

[Varodoc]

For all we know, it was THIS act that "broke the machine of death" in the first place, putting the Arbiter in a coma and allowing The Jailer to start amassing power by taking all the souls for himself.

Impossible. It was already stated long ago that the machine of death broke during Legion, most likely after Ysera's death (since Ysera did not go straight to the Maw, but to Ardenweald). Whereas Uther sentenced Arthas to the Maw at the end of Wrath of the Lich King.

[Goldielocks]

Wrong, that is exactly how necromancy works. Dark Ranger Velonara confirms this:



When Velonara died in battle, her soul went to the Shadowlands. When Sylvanas raised her as undead, her soul was literally pulled from the Shadowlands and forced back into Azeroth.

But Uther was never raised into undeath. Neither was Terenas. So the fractions of their souls that went to Shadowlands were never forced back into Azeroth, were never made whole again.

You’re quoting retconned lore at me when I’m saying it’s a retcon lmao

[tromage2]

Is the light also not a threat to the shadowlands?
You get a follower of the light into Bastion and nobody is concerned that this might spread their beleaves and get a hold in the shadowlands.
The light like the shadow want to consume all after all...

[Aucald]

devos wanted to help stop arthas and sent him the maw! that for me is a good thing! devos is the real hero here!

I mean I kind of agree with Devos i.e. Arthas and the Jailer having agents outside of his prison-realm. It was kind of dumb of the Kyrians to ignore her very real warnings, but they're also pretty dogmatic and set in their way. This is a pronounced plot-point in the Bastion storyline.

[Mehrunes]

Bwonsamdi was also a former mortal who was 'ascended' into Loahood by... well another Loa. He can practically go wherever he wants to in Azeroth/the Shadowlands

He's still a denizen of Shadowlands that directly interacted with the world. Likely, so is Mueh'zala, because someone had to ascend Bwonsamdi from a priest to a Loa. Then there's Helya and her squad.

Zalazane was also troll Nagash, he deserved that nuke

Zalazane doesn't even get to lick Nagash's feet. Hell, even his dandruff.

[Goldielocks]

I agree he was "off," but his being off is both understandable and explained in the story. The version of Uther in Frostmourne was also kind of "off" in retrospect.

In what way was he off though? In the same way as Terenas both of them seemed exactly the same to me.

[NED funded]

Redemption is a strong word. More likely she will have a moment of clarity that she was manipulated, but she's still going to pay for her crimes in some sort.

Hell they may have her have a moment of clarity and then say "fuck it, I still hate everything" to cement her status as evil.

I would believe this if a similar scenario didnt play out in WOD and Grommash was redeemed

At this point its possible they "redeem" her

[LemonDemonGirl]

The Light is a force, not really a destination. The Light is also inscrutable and often acts in contrary and unexplained fashions, so the basic answer to that we don't know. Perhaps the Light only stopped Frostmourne from consuming him completely, but wasn't really able to also fend off Devos who apparently came personally for his soul.

Seems to me that the Light is like the Force from Star Wars, but I'm not sure if everyone can use it/it surrounds everything

[Nerovar]

We have no idea what the Naaru did with Bridenbrad, just that they supposedly took him to "paradise." Perhaps they delivered him directly to Oribos knowing the Arbiter would judge him well, as he was a good person in life. Perhaps they delivered him to a special afterlife realm of their choosing. It's a closed box concerning Bridenbrad's ultimate fate and we're not privy to its outcome.

The Shadowlands can hardly be described as paradise eternal. I mean, you even risk total annihilation since they seem to get invaded from time to time.

[Mehrunes]

When Velonara died in battle, her soul went to the Shadowlands. When Sylvanas raised her as undead, her soul was literally pulled from the Shadowlands and forced back into Azeroth.

Velonara being personally resurrected by Sylvanas never made sense. She appeared in the game in 4.0, long before even Sylvanas' Val'kyr had the power to resurrect anything other than humans, let alone before Sylvanas could do so herself. Then again, it's Blizzard.

[bagina]

What I'd prefer to know is when the fuck are they going to address Sylvanas' wrongful imprisonment in the Maw? I wouldn't be surprised if they never mentioned it again and instead claimed that Arthas was less deserving of eternal damnation.

[Aucald]

The Shadowlands can hardly be described as paradise eternal. I mean, you even risk total annihilation since they seem to get invaded from time to time.

I would agree but perhaps A'dal feels differently, or perhaps there are realms in the Shadowlands that aren't subject to incursions.

[Sarethion]

Ysera (who died at Val'Sharah) was one of the last of the souls to come to the Shadowlands.

Is it explicitly stated like this, I mean is it directly implied that there were other souls and it wasn't just Ysera? Because if it was just Ysera then it's possible that it was Elune's intervention, after all - if Bwonsamdi can rescue Troll souls from the Maw, it's likely that Elune can too.

[Aucald]

In what way was he off though? In the same way as Terenas both of them seemed exactly the same to me.

What I said previously - he was awful conciliatory towards Arthas - the man who killed him, killed Teranas, and destroyed Lordaeron. I thought that was odd even back in WotLK, but wrote it off as Uther being his Lawful Good self. In light of new information, though; perhaps it was because he wasn't himself either.

[NED funded]

What I'd prefer to know is when the fuck are they going to address Sylvanas' wrongful imprisonment in the Maw? I wouldn't be surprised if they never mentioned it again and instead claimed that Arthas was less deserving of eternal damnation.

I dont think its a case of that Arthas didnt deserve ethernal damnation but that the process that makes sure everyone has a chance to be judged fairly wasnt followed. Even if Arthas ended up in the Maw that wasnt Uther's choice to make

[Dannihilate]

Also /lol at the "we want to be carefull with Arthas"... they are already at the path of ruining his character

As far as I'm concerned, this is at least the 3rd Arthas/Lich King retcon that has potential for ruining his character.

-1st was when they retconned the "Now we are one!" soul merger at the end of WC3. Their souls were described as merging and fusing into a singular new entity- The Lich King. Then Wrath rolled around and nope, they were just Jaegering the body together or something.

-2nd was in Chronicle when they gave the Lich King a "motivation". He was no longer just evil and out to amass power, now he was trying to save Azeroth from the Legion and from internal strife by forging the world into a single undead army. The same motivation they retconned onto Sargaras and Illidan and probably Sylvanas eventually.

-3rd is this, though I'll hold off on judgement until the xpac actually hits and we see how it plays out.

[Nagawithlegs]

What I said previously - he was awful conciliatory towards Arthas - the man who killed him, killed Teranas, and destroyed Lordaeron. I thought that was odd even back in WotLK, but wrote it off as Uther being his Lawful Good self. In light of new information, though; perhaps it was because he wasn't himself either.

It's also a cultural sign of the times. Back when the Light was much more a clear parallel to Christianity, the idea of ultimate forgiveness for someone as bad as the Lich King could be expected from THE paladin Uther.

But nowadays? Look at the fan reaction to Teldrassil. People would be shitting themselves if they tried pulling something like that today. There is NO way people would respond positively to Uther forgiving him.

[bagina]

The Shadowlands can hardly be described as paradise eternal. I mean, you even risk total annihilation since they seem to get invaded from time to time.

That one quest from Maldraxx states the Shadowlands have been invaded by the Void, the Light and "invaders from beyond" (whatever that means) in the past. To me, it seems they're less an afterlife and more just another dimension.

[Goldielocks]

What I said previously - he was awful conciliatory towards Arthas - the man who killed him, killed Teranas, and destroyed Lordaeron. I thought that was odd even back in WotLK, but wrote it off as Uther being his Lawful Good self. In light of new information, though; perhaps it was because he wasn't himself either.

I'm watching a video of the Halls of Reflection, and no he doesn't? He tells Jaina how to destroy him. How exactly is that conciliatory?