Legacy of the void needs to be removed

[Hitei]

It's impossible to balance it that way without it ending up the meta after a few months of gearing. I think ppl that actually like that playstyle are not even a vocal minority, just let it go!

No. A significant number of people enjoy it.

Ah yes because this is totally a thing Blizzard has always done.

Remember that time they completely reworked shadow in Cata with shadow orbs and they made a talent choice to bring back the old way shadow played in WotLK? And that time in Legion when they completely reworked shadow again to have void form/insanity and they made that one talent for the massive playerbase that didn't want that and wanted their shadow orb playstyle?

Oh wait..... that never happened.

This is entirely false though. When affliction was defaulted back to shadowbolt they added in a talent to support the channeled gameplay style for people who liked that. When they removed the default stacking mongoose strike gameplay of Legion survival, they added in a talent to allow people who liked that gameplay to keep doing it. When they removed Slice and Dice in favor of RtB, they provided SnD as a talent to allow people who preferred that more straightforward style to keep doing it.

[LordVargK]

Reading this thread showed me that there are people posting here who have never played world of warcraft in their life

If talent A deals more DPS than talent B it does not matter for shit what preferences you have, everyone and their grandmother will pick talent A

Yeah, but that does not give them the right to cry about it. Besides, people are stupid and follow guides too strictly. If you personally can play better with one talent (or like it better), you will generally perform better.

Also you are wrong. Look at mages: Fire is generally the best, still there are plenty of Frost mages and even some arcane. Some take incanters flow, although rune of power is considered best for DPS in most situations. Why do people even play other specs than the one that does the most DPS? Look at warcarftlogs, look at the average damage statistics and observe, that even for specs that significantly underperform there are still logged fights. So no, people don't always take the best option.

In this special case here I'd imagine that people, who don't like the voidform playstyle then they will probably perform better with the other talents (also maybe because one of the other talents is easier to manage).

I mean, I can't understand how people play something they don't like and still cry about it, when there are a myriad alternatives, be it other talents, other specs/classes or ultimately other games. If my warlock feels shit to play, then I play another class. If many classes feel shit to play, then I play another game. But this is not even the point of this discussion and LotV is NOTHING like BfA shadow priest.

[Jazzhands]

The point isn’t that it’s just there for people who like the talent. That’s not how WoW works, that’s never how it has worked. The issue is that they keep buffing it and it could get to a point to where it’s not just viable, but you would be dumb not to take it. Which this would force every priest to take this or suffer being bad, completely removing the point of the rework.

Never have they reworked a class and then said “here is a talent for those who didn’t want the rework”, because it makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. Anytime you rework a class you potentially anger people who liked the class as it was, putting a talent in to give them similar game play is great to alleviate this.

They just need to properly balance it, not remove it. I know everyone likes to shit on Blizzard for their balancing capabilities, myself included, but they have achieved such things in the past.

[Nephys]

That’s not the point of the thread. Please read before commenting, thanks.

The point of the thread is to talk about Legacy of the Void, you want it removed because you don't like it, but I would wager you are the minority, so it would make no sense to remove it. We got a compromise, but you don't accept that, you just want to remove something that others enjoy.

[Mosha]

The point of the thread is to talk about Legacy of the Void, you want it removed because you don't like it, but I would wager you are the minority, so it would make no sense to remove it. We got a compromise, but you don't accept that, you just want to remove something that others enjoy.

Seems you need to do a little more reading. Because that’s not what I’m saying

[bluesock]

This is entirely false though. When affliction was defaulted back to shadowbolt they added in a talent to support the channeled gameplay style for people who liked that. When they removed the default stacking mongoose strike gameplay of Legion survival, they added in a talent to allow people who liked that gameplay to keep doing it. When they removed Slice and Dice in favor of RtB, they provided SnD as a talent to allow people who preferred that more straightforward style to keep doing it.

And this is called a strawman. I was responding to a shadow priest comment on a shadow priest thread talking about shadow priest, I never once even mentioned or hinted at any other class/spec.

Not to mention that statement is still false anyway. Affli didn't have a "playstyle" with drain soul, drain soul has been in the game since vanilla, replacing shadow bolt with it is nowhere near a "playstyle change".

Never touched huntard in my life so can't comment on that. I guess fair play on the rogue though, but unlike snd/rtb the whole spec isn't designed around that spell, you can literally remove it from the spec entirely and it wouldn't change much.

[Hitei]

And this is called a strawman. I was responding to a shadow priest comment on a shadow priest thread talking about shadow priest, I never once even mentioned or hinted at any other class/spec.

Not to mention that statement is still false anyway. Affli didn't have a "playstyle" with drain soul, drain soul has been in the game since vanilla, replacing shadow bolt with it is nowhere near a "playstyle change".

Never touched huntard in my life so can't comment on that. I guess fair play on the rogue though, but unlike snd/rtb the whole spec isn't designed around that spell, you can literally remove it from the spec entirely and it wouldn't change much.

Not really a strawman. Someone else said this was preserving a playstyle, you claimed blizzard has never done this before, I provided you with three examples of rotational mechanisms that were changed with the old version added into talents.

I didn't say drain soul, I said channeled gameplay, but yes. it did have a "playstyle" with drain soul. Original drain soul in Vanilla-Cata did not function as it does now it acted as a first just a shard generation tool, and then as an execute phase filler. In MoP Affliction's shadow bolt (it's primary filler) was replaced with malefic grasp, a channeled spell that significantly changed its entire playstyle because with it you can tap-channel mobs during the downtime between dot applications instead of hardcasting a nuke filler. This was merged with drain soul in WoD for the same channeled filler playstyle through Legion, and in BfA it was reverted back to shadow bolt as the primary filler, returning to the hardcasting nuke gameplay. For those who enjoyed that channeled playstyle, the Drain Soul talent was added, acting as it did in WoD/Legion, as a combined form of Malefic Grasp and execute DS.

I would call Outlaw designed around RtB. What gets rolled changes the rotation of the spec significantly. It alters the relationship between generator and spender, it weaves in a spammed secondary spell (pistol shot) much like Void Bolt, it changes finisher priority. New Shadow isn't even wildly different because VF was made a cooldown, it's different because of the dark thoughts passive, reintroduction of sear, and reintroduction of DP. If it was not for those two elements the VF change would basically just result in the exact same shadow we have now, but with void bolt spamming phases every 90 seconds instead of every 25-6 seconds depending on where you are in the expansion's lifetime.

Either way, my point is: this is nothing new. There have been several other times where Blizzard has decided to change a major rotational aspect that many players disliked but some did like, and included a talented option for those who liked it better the old way.

[idnn]

The point is to make it so that people who like the old playstyle can still enjoy what they like, if you would prefer a general builder/spender you have more 20 specs like that.

in case you didnt notice. Shadow Priest is back to be a general builder / spender

[Nephys]

in case you didnt notice. Shadow Priest is back to be a general builder / spender

But you have the talent Legacy of the Void for those who enjoyed the original playstyle, this thread wants to get rid of that. I think we have a nice compromise here, no reason to remove it.

[idnn]

But you have the talent Legacy of the Void for those who enjoyed the original playstyle, this thread wants to get rid of that. I think we have a nice compromise here, no reason to remove it.

no we dont. Lotv does nothing for the old Playstyle.

[deviantcultist]

To people who want Legacy of the Void removed.

Don't you think it's a bit too entitled to ask for it to be downright removed when the Shadow Priest spec is the only Void user in the whole game? They already took a few steps back fantasy-wise to cater to those wanting the old playstyle back. Don't get me wrong, the gameplay is awesome now.

Don't get me wrong, I don't object to the new gameplay direction. However, I feel like they cut out a lot of the Void fantasy and some people here want that to be removed completely.

I believe it's wrong to completely demolish the Void fantasy when we still don't have a new class to represent it.

[Pregnant Orc]

Shadow Priest spec is the only Void user in the whole game

Apart from Warlocks with their Voidwalkers and theme of dealing with entities beyond the mortal realm.

[deviantcultist]

Apart from Warlocks with their Voidwalkers and theme of dealing with entities beyond the mortal realm.

Voidwalkers have nothing to do with the Void, it was very clearly stated during WoD and Legion.

Also no, Warlocks are dealing with the Twisting Nether - not the Void. Another thing that has been pointed out during the Legion class fantasy articles.

[Echeyakee]

LotV is not the "old" shadow. It's still the new shadow except you get a little bit of the old gameplay back every 90 seconds, on top of all of the new stuff. They are just placating people, and many are gullible enough to eat it up.

The problem with having the "old gameplay talent", is that it will never be tuned to be the top performing one, or even a content specific choice, so that people are not forced in to it. Which makes it a dead talent, as far as your average player is concerned. And for shadow, a spec historically plagued by dead talents, intentionally making one is in bad taste.

[Redroniksre]

I mean i guess the question is more or less how much of a difference are you okay with? Talents will never be 100% equal, that is a fact, yet other classes it is close enough that you actually have multiple choices. So what would make you consider it "mandatory", a 10% difference? 5%? 1%? I know personally i would be more than okay with a 5% difference, but if you are going for 1% then you may find improvements to your damage in other ways that aren't related to the talent.

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

Thank you for proving your ignorance for everyone.

Bro, ignorance is when you think a talent has to be removed because YOU don't like it.

[Mosha]

Bro, ignorance is when you think a talent has to be removed because YOU don't like it.

I love this comment so much, that isn't what I said at all LOL

[Shandalar]

They can remove it and take back Void Entropy, that so well designed talent from WoD.

[TheFirstOnes]

Agreed. I seriously hate that Starcraft 2 Expansion...

[Mosha]

I just want to thank blizzard for actually listening this time, and to everyone who said this was a bad idea can go suck an egg. Thanks