I can't be the only one predicting a permanent level 60 cap

[Stacko]

I wouldn't hate this at all. I think leveling at this point is pretty redundant. Could be a really cool way to keep content relevant even beyond expansions if they really wanted to.

More realistically though, I doubt they would do this. I just hope the level cap never goes beyond 100 again.

[Dracullus]

I wouldn't hate this at all. I think leveling at this point is pretty redundant. Could be a really cool way to keep content relevant even beyond expansions if they really wanted to.

More realistically though, I doubt they would do this. I just hope the level cap never goes beyond 100 again.

Another cool idea connected to this is world revamp, but done smarter than Cata. It would be something like that:

- return to 'pristine' zones and storylines that would stay relevant even few expansions from now
- smaller zones joined into big ones, overall big changes more similar to Outland-Draenor
- 50-60 on some separate place like Dragon Isles, only 3 zones for leveling for obvious reason
- but WHOLE revamped world used for max level stories and content, way to do or repeat questlines for max level entry gear, all dungeons available for M+ etc
- since it still require tons of resources split it on two parts: EK + Dragons Isles for 10.0, Kalimdor + Kezan/Undermine/Tel Abim for 11.0; better split this, but do it proper
- Shadowlands join optional 10-50 zones, but default path would always be revamped EK (later EK + Kalimdor).

[Yriel]

Which makes leveling pointless. There is no reason to level if you are just immediately set back to 50.

Makes loot pointless, too. If lv 50 is static, then there will always be the same loot from 50-60. A lv 58 item from expansion x will have the same stat than a lv 58 item from expansion x+1.
They probably have to nerf all loot down to lv 50 along with your character so that you can a) still wear your gear after being deleveled and b) lv 60 T3 raid gear from the previous expasion isn't the best gear for all the next expansion.

[Clozer]

Making leveling even more pointless. There is no reason to level if I immediately end up right back where I started.

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It should be heeded. Just as anyone else's should be. ANd using different ways of telling me "You are wrong" and your idea is better also goes nowhere.

This works perfectly fine with PoE. Every 3 months a complete reset. And you have to level all over again. In wow it's every 2 years, seems reasonable.

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Makes loot pointless, too. If lv 50 is static, then there will always be the same loot from 50-60. A lv 58 item from expansion x will have the same stat than a lv 58 item from expansion x+1.
They probably have to nerf all loot down to lv 50 along with your character so that you can a) still wear your gear after being deleveled and b) lv 60 T3 raid gear from the previous expasion isn't the best gear for all the next expansion.

Of course. You don't only nerf the number that displays your level. You also "nerf" ilvl and everything else that belongs to your powerlevel.

[Yriel]

Of course. You don't only nerf the number that displays your level. You also "nerf" ilvl and everything else that belongs to your powerlevel.

That still makes the grind very visible. Every expansion you grind for the exact same gear with the exact same stats at the same level/Tier. And at the end you lose it all and go back to the start.
I think psychologically it's a difference to go from 100DPS to 200, 300, 400, 500, 600 over the expansions than to go from 100 to 150, 200 and back to 100 in the next expansion. You probalby feel like you achieved nothing, have no progression and have to regrind everything over and over again. It's a Sisyphos thing where your stone rolls back to the base of the mountain every expansion.

In POE it works because people play a new build every season, if they had to play the same build every season again and again i doubt it would be very popular.

[Clozer]

That still makes the grind very visible. Every expansion you grind for the exact same gear with the exact same stats at the same level/Tier. And at the end you lose it all and go back to the start.
I think psychologically it's a difference to go from 100DPS to 200, 300, 400, 500, 600 over the expansions than to go from 100 to 150, 200 and back to 100 in the next expansion. You probalby feel like you achieved nothing, have no progression and have to regrind everything over and over again. It's a Sisyphos thing where your stone rolls back to the base of the mountain every expansion.

It's for 2 years. I can't even remember what DPS I did 2 years ago. Besides that, it's a reset nonetheless. Instead of your stone rolling back down the mountain - the mountain size increases, making your progress just as pointless.

To keep things reasonable and not random ilvl/level/stat squishes every couple expansions, let them just do it every expansion.

[VinceVega]

Nope. Because you keep moving upward. Upward movement is still progression making leveling meaningful.

you level to 60 -> stay there for 2 years -> get set back to 50 -> feel weird for a week -> got used to it like with every squish ever -> you level as always with every expansion and see progress like every expansion (except bfa... that was weird) -> you are 60 for two years.

The number is meaningless. Other possibility would be to put bfa in chromie time, make every old expansion 0-60 and the new one 60 to 70. which will get us to the same problem we allready had in a few years. You cannot give infinite rewards. So we will get nothing again for 10 levels and we are where we started... again...

I fully support being set back to 50 every expansion. Will it happen? Who knows? Will it break my immersion? Definetly not as it is only relevant for the frist 2 weeks of the expansion.

[Yriel]

It's for 2 years. I can't even remember what DPS I did 2 years ago. Besides that, it's a reset nonetheless. Instead of your stone rolling back down the mountain - the mountain size increases, making your progress just as pointless.

To keep things reasonable and not random ilvl/level/stat squishes every couple expansions, let them just do it every expansion.

Thats why i said psychologically. I guess it feels better to progress further and further than to get set back every expansion. Especially since the numbers stay the same. You push your DPS up to the last raid and then have to do it all again, up to the same number.
The uselessness of the whole act is much more clear that way.

[rrayy]

This works perfectly fine with PoE. Every 3 months a complete reset. And you have to level all over again. In wow it's every 2 years, seems reasonable

PoE is worse. That is why I don't play it. My proposal is far more reasonable.

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you level to 60 -> stay there for 2 years -> get set back to 50 -> feel weird for a week -> got used to it like with every squish ever -> you level as always with every expansion and see progress like every expansion (except bfa... that was weird) -> you are 60 for two years.

Nope It'sa level to 60. Get Rest. Well leveing to 60 was a complete waste of time. No point in palying the game anymore.

The number is meaningless. Other possibility would be to put bfa in chromie time, make every old expansion 0-60 and the new one 60 to 70. which will get us to the same problem we allready had in a few years. You cannot give infinite rewards. So we will get nothing again for 10 levels and we are where we started... again...

That is why you use my proposal. You make 1-60 go just as fast as 1-50 and spread out the rewards or use ranks of the talents. Reset again at 100. Perfect compromise and it doesn't kill progression. YOur way just makes leveling a complete waste of time.

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Makes loot pointless, too. If lv 50 is static, then there will always be the same loot from 50-60. A lv 58 item from expansion x will have the same stat than a lv 58 item from expansion x+1.
They probably have to nerf all loot down to lv 50 along with your character so that you can a) still wear your gear after being deleveled and b) lv 60 T3 raid gear from the previous expasion isn't the best gear for all the next expansion.

I never thought of that. It's going to make gear almost impossible to squish down to be able to keep using it and make gear irrelevant.

[NineSpine]

PoE is worse. That is why I don't play it. My proposal is far more reasonable.

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Nope It'sa level to 60. Get Rest. Well leveing to 60 was a complete waste of time. No point in palying the game anymore.

That is why you use my proposal. You make 1-60 go just as fast as 1-50 and spread out the rewards or use ranks of the talents. Reset again at 100. Perfect compromise and it doesn't kill progression. YOur way just makes leveling a complete waste of time.

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I never thought of that. It's going to make gear almost impossible to squish down to be able to keep using it and make gear irrelevant.

There's an easier solution: Permanent level 60 cap. End of story.

They don't need to reset you to make you do the "leveling" content of the new expansion.

[stigz]

Also ways leveling to 60 wouldn't feel great. Would probably make me feeling like im running in place.

This entire game is a way to distract you from the fact that that is exactly what you are doing.

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I think leveling is kind of archaic now anyways. We could just progress in a story in a new land to unlock dungeons/raids and just stay at 60 idc

[rhorle]

I think leveling is kind of archaic now anyways. We could just progress in a story in a new land to unlock dungeons/raids and just stay at 60 idc

Which is the same as leveling. Why create a new system to distract from the fact that you are just leveling? A time gate, a progression gate, or any other "path to unlock X content" is all just levels repackaged. Leveling isn't archaic it is still used as the major way to progress in most games.

[Speedlance]

For me what level it is doesnt matter, but i feel used to having to "restart" every expansion. Kinda one of the things i look most forward to every new launch.

Just wish they would make leveling take longer, like 5 times as long at least.

[Kaver]

PoE is worse. That is why I don't play it. My proposal is far more reasonable.

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Nope It'sa level to 60. Get Rest. Well leveing to 60 was a complete waste of time. No point in palying the game anymore.

That is why you use my proposal. You make 1-60 go just as fast as 1-50 and spread out the rewards or use ranks of the talents. Reset again at 100. Perfect compromise and it doesn't kill progression. YOur way just makes leveling a complete waste of time.

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I never thought of that. It's going to make gear almost impossible to squish down to be able to keep using it and make gear irrelevant.

Mate do you seriously see leveling in WoW as meaningful progression?

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Which is the same as leveling. Why create a new system to distract from the fact that you are just leveling? A time gate, a progression gate, or any other "path to unlock X content" is all just levels repackaged. Leveling isn't archaic it is still used as the major way to progress in most games.

Leveling to cap in a new expansion in WoW is something that most people finish in the first 1-2 days. It’s not meaningful at all, but some people starts crying when a level squish happens. So why even deal with that. Another system would still be based on questing etc. It’s basically the same as you mention. However, it makes it easier for Blizzard to reset the system each expansion because they can e.g. tie it to the lore. They don’t have to deal with crybabies in the same why screaming “you reset my progression!”. And you can also potentially make the progression last for the entire expansion (instead of only the first 1-2 days) and make it more meaningful.

[huth]

This entire game is a way to distract you from the fact that that is exactly what you are doing.

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I think leveling is kind of archaic now anyways. We could just progress in a story in a new land to unlock dungeons/raids and just stay at 60 idc

You still need a gear reset, otherwise we'd run into far worse issues than what you see currently on live with extreme secondaries.

[rhorle]

Leveling to cap in a new expansion in WoW is something that most people finish in the first 1-2 days. It’s not meaningful at all, but some people starts crying when a level squish happens. So why even deal with that. Another system would still be based on questing etc. It’s basically the same as you mention. However, it makes it easier for Blizzard to reset the system each expansion because they can e.g. tie it to the lore. They don’t have to deal with crybabies in the same why screaming “you reset my progression!”. And you can also potentially make the progression last for the entire expansion (instead of only the first 1-2 days) and make it more meaningful.

Another system that gets reset would still be "you reset my progression". That is the point. You don't need to reinvent a system just to create a similar system that fills the same exact need. A way to reset and pace certain parts of progression. Leveling also resets the item level, stats, and scaling. Which yes Blizzard could manage in another system. But that again references creating a system to do the same thing only to have a name that isn't "level".

Progression wouldn't last for the entire expansion with out levels. Did you honestly think that line through? Why would the removal of a number suddenly make Blizzard create more story, zone, quests etc than they already do? And why would post-launch content be any more meaningful just because it has "totally not levels but still tiered progression" tied to it? It is the same literal content.

[Yriel]

Mate do you seriously see leveling in WoW as meaningful progression?

Yes, at least in a way that it motivates the people to grind the content.
Lets go to the extremes, think about lv 60 being the permanent max level and gear stats being the frozen, too. The gear you have now is the best you can ever get, there will just be variations of that.
How many people do you think will play the raids and Mythic dungeons if they can't get any upgrades ever?
How many people are going to play through the new zones if there is no xp and no level up? Lets face it, most people don't play wow because its great story.

[Kaver]

Another system that gets reset would still be "you reset my progression". That is the point. You don't need to reinvent a system just to create a similar system that fills the same exact need. A way to reset and pace certain parts of progression. Leveling also resets the item level, stats, and scaling. Which yes Blizzard could manage in another system. But that again references creating a system to do the same thing only to have a name that isn't "level".

Progression wouldn't last for the entire expansion with out levels. Did you honestly think that line through? Why would the removal of a number suddenly make Blizzard create more story, zone, quests etc than they already do? And why would post-launch content be any more meaningful just because it has "totally not levels but still tiered progression" tied to it? It is the same literal content.

As I see, a new expansion specific progression system could have possibilities where the traditional leveling system is restricted:

- It would be easier to reset each expansion since it’s not a traditional system like leveling. People would not have the same emotional outrage towards the reset of a expansion specific system compared to the leveling system. You can compare it to the Legion artifacts for example, just more expansive.

- It wouldn’t necessarily be capped in the same way as the traditional leveling system. The leveling system is usually capped at 5-10 levels per expansion which limits the extend of it. A new progression system wouldn’t necessarily be defined in the same way as the leveling system and therefore it could go on for much longer. There would of course need to be a lot of “catch up mechanics” but it is possible.

- It could be much more meaningful. Leveling in BFA didn’t give you anything other than more stats. You didn’t get new talents or anything like that. A new system could allow for a more exciting progression.

These are just ideas. I just think the leveling in new expansions are pointless and adds no value to me.

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Yes, at least in a way that it motivates the people to grind the content.
Lets go to the extremes, think about lv 60 being the permanent max level and gear stats being the frozen, too. The gear you have now is the best you can ever get, there will just be variations of that.
How many people do you think will play the raids and Mythic dungeons if they can't get any upgrades ever?
How many people are going to play through the new zones if there is no xp and no level up? Lets face it, most people don't play wow because its great story.

I don’t agree that gear stats should be frozen. That’s something completely different.

There should still be progression that motivates people to grind content. But leveling doesn’t necessarily need to be that progression.

[Newname1234567890]

This entire game is a way to distract you from the fact that that is exactly what you are doing.

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I think leveling is kind of archaic now anyways. We could just progress in a story in a new land to unlock dungeons/raids and just stay at 60 idc

Yeah no I get that. But game feel is important and so is a sense of progression.

[rrayy]

Mate do you seriously see leveling in WoW as meaningful progression?

I do when you continue to increase the cap each expansion because you know you will continue to move upwards with the next expansion. That is why I said that resetting to 50 after every expansion makes leveling meaningless and pointless.Then it becomes movement for one or two days and therefore meaningless. You only do a reset after a few expansions to make sure that the numbers don't get too far out of hand, like not going above 100.