SL Beta: No Hope for Feral, again?

[Laqweeta]

The reality is that wow's current iteration no longer has a spot for ramp up damage specs/dots. This includes Feral, SPriest and Affliction.

[Itori]

I really miss the days of WotLK feral. Honestly I just really miss WotLK druid in general xD

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Idk what class designers do... we wait 2 years and get minimal changes that takes like 1 week work

Its like there is no class designers at all...

All the ideas for fixes are already suggested by the community making it easier for them

They dont even band-aid fix , like feral is 20% worse? They dont even do a 5% dmg increase or anything...
Its really weird, and not beleivable for a game with 500-800 workers

I just imagine a group of ppl in an office area yelling at each other with stuff like "OMG YOUR CLASS OP CHANGE IT!!" "NO YOU!!!" and the warrior team just sitting there in the back eating a bag of cheetos mumbling "lol noobs"

[cocomen2]

Its like there is no class designers at all...

We all know by now that Shaman class-developer plays his Paladin toon, because Paladin is not a trash.

If you are naive like me to think that each class has its own designers , there 4-6 almost dead geeks that apply band-aid fixes once per year.

[Moozart]

Looking at the changes to Feral in Beta has me seriously concerned. Every report seems to be "the spec is worse". It's worse...it's already a mess on live. Man, I just don't get it.

If you want to be a rogue just make a rogue. If you want to be a Druid Be a tank or heals like a good little druid.

[Asrialol]

No hope for over 50% of the specs. We still need a total talent overhaul.

No we dont.

[dewd]

would be cool if they finally understoof that a pvp talent like bloodtalons has no right to be the best in pve. imagine coming up with the idea to use a healing spell at 100% life and waste a gcd to do more dmg

[Shyzhi]

would be cool if they finally understoof that a pvp talent like bloodtalons has no right to be the best in pve. imagine coming up with the idea to use a healing spell at 100% life and waste a gcd to do more dmg

That is one of the reasons they wanted to change it as they felt healing mid combat felt silly as a DPS so they reworked bloodtalons.

I went on alpha and had a small test with new blood talons, maybe its the lack of familiarity with the new lower stats but to me it felt aweful, The fact it only empowers rip and FB now makes it less enjoyable to me. I liked having it buff all my bleeds, At this point i feel its a dead talent and should be removed and just bake the extra damage into our bleeds and leave FB the same. I wanna feel that bleed spec again. I enjoyed feral most in wrath and legion. They felt like strong times for feral but over the few years and odd Xpacks its fell by the way side.. we are pigeoned into talents as the others are garbo. Iv had thoughts of how id like to see feral going forward and talents / spell changes i feel that could help.. i may make a post and see how others feel.

[Riistov]

No hope for over 50% of the specs. We still need a total talent overhaul.

I wouldn't go that far. A few are in a really bad spot, but half? No way.

[Raugnaut]

In terms of talents, only a few for Feral needs to be looked at.

1: Lunar Inspiration - As it completely lacks Mastery scaling, and it's only somewhat above Shred in terms of DPE, it's essentially going to remain a dead talent unless it's overbuffed.
2: Savage Roar. As a talent, Savage Roar has historically been either A) Overtuned and a must-pick, or B) Undertuned and ignored (Like what's been seen in BfA). There isn't a in-between. I don't think buffing it from 10->15% damage is enough to make it "balanced"
3: The AoE tier. Especially considering the changes to AoE in SL, the dominance of Primal Wrath just cemented itself even more. With Brutal Slash and Swipe only affecting 6 targets max, Brutal Slash is extremely niche, and Scent of Blood is just complete garbage. Brutal Slash may be picked for PvP or on pure single-target raid boss fights, but Scent of Blood? With the AoE change, if there's more then 10 mobs (The number needed to make Swipe spammable), you'll STILL want Primal Wrath since it has no target cap. Having to weave in the pathetic damage of Trash to get the energy cost reduction makes it even worse.

That's really about it. Feral Frenzy has use in both PvP and solo play. Incarnation is a great burst CD for short fights and PvP. While Sabertooth has been significantly nerfed, combined with the nerf to Tiger's Fury it's still roughly on par with Tiger's Fury.

There are other classes and specs that literally only have 1 real option for EVERY talent tier.

[Swnem]

Yeah... i tested on the PTR and it feels worse than on live. I really hate the new bloodtalons. It's boring cause instead of having some synergy with regrowth, now you just wait for energy to regen and theres a bunch of issues with bleed uptimes and clipping.

I actually like it on live though. Sorry. :P
It's better than what's on the PTR.

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would be cool if they finally understoof that a pvp talent like bloodtalons has no right to be the best in pve. imagine coming up with the idea to use a healing spell at 100% life and waste a gcd to do more dmg

So... to maximise damage you have to wait for energy to build up, so what is the problem if you cast a heal instead of just waiting? I really don't get what's so bad about that. You are not always at 100% either. It helps you stay alive and saves mana for your healer.
Do you enjoy not doing anything but wait for energy to regen? Cause i find that boring. Casting it to help myself or others and gaining a buff for my next 2 abilities felt great. Utility, damage and no down time.

[insanejudge]

I realize this is like a month old but--

would be cool if they finally understoof that a pvp talent like bloodtalons has no right to be the best in pve. imagine coming up with the idea to use a healing spell at 100% life and waste a gcd to do more dmg

- Waste a GCD
- Do more damage
what's wasted exactly if you're doing more damage?

This is a really sad change honestly, bloodtalons was really one of if not the only rotational bits of hybrid gameplay existing in the game. I definitely saved some underperforming groups' bacon with this (+resto affinity) and adding some moderate baseline hps to m+ and raid was a nice perk and added some, dare I say it, depth.

But sure if you're just blindly regrowthing yourself every time at full health it might seem pointless.

[Whitepaw]

I realize this is like a month old but--



- Waste a GCD
- Do more damage
what's wasted exactly if you're doing more damage?

This is a really sad change honestly, bloodtalons was really one of if not the only rotational bits of hybrid gameplay existing in the game. I definitely saved some underperforming groups' bacon with this (+resto affinity) and adding some moderate baseline hps to m+ and raid was a nice perk and added some, dare I say it, depth.

But sure if you're just blindly regrowthing yourself every time at full health it might seem pointless.

You can still use PS to heal others with an instant Regrowth.

[Infernoxas]

Interesting, I'm personally more fond of the new revision. Not a fan of using a non-dps ability to increase a dps ability. Feels like a waste when you could be doing something better. Maybe the new Bloodtalons will feel better with more haste? I'm sure the value of that has to go up with the new berserk revamp.

[insanejudge]

You can still use PS to heal others with an instant Regrowth.

Right, but now it's an actual dps loss.

Interesting, I'm personally more fond of the new revision. Not a fan of using a non-dps ability to increase a dps ability. Feels like a waste when you could be doing something better. Maybe the new Bloodtalons will feel better with more haste? I'm sure the value of that has to go up with the new berserk revamp.

Damage is all balanced relative to other dps specs, so we're not trading healing globals for more dps. The numbers will get adjusted to wherever blizz expects feral to be in the stack rank. Being happy about losing free utility when you 'could be doing something better' (which, again, would just be a placebo button to push, not more dps) seems a little... short sighted?

[naeblis495]

Right, but now it's an actual dps loss.



Damage is all balanced relative to other dps specs, so we're not trading healing globals for more dps. The numbers will get adjusted to wherever blizz expects feral to be in the stack rank. Being happy about losing free utility when you 'could be doing something better' (which, again, would just be a placebo button to push, not more dps) seems a little... short sighted?

We're an energy based spec wich spend multiple second pooling energy anyway , just throw the instant regrowth during those times ,and you'll suffer zero dps gain or loss .

[Protean]

I really miss the days of WotLK feral. Honestly I just really miss WotLK druid in general xD

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I just imagine a group of ppl in an office area yelling at each other with stuff like "OMG YOUR CLASS OP CHANGE IT!!" "NO YOU!!!" and the warrior team just sitting there in the back eating a bag of cheetos mumbling "lol noobs"

Armor penetration!

[Swnem]

Feral's main issue has always been and shall always be Rip.

24 sec dot as the main 5 combo point finisher. That's way too much time required for full damage. Therefore feral will always come out short in quicker combat scenarios or be extremely overpowered in single target boss fights. It has been the former for 99,99% of time in wow's history.

Removing Rip would make the spec flow a lot better. Combo point builder dots are fine, dot as a finisher is not.

What i find funny is that in the official forums there are people saying the opposite. That they want more damage on the bleeds.
I agree with you. But, nostalgia is seriously wrecking this game.

[Whitepaw]

Right, but now it's an actual dps loss.



Damage is all balanced relative to other dps specs, so we're not trading healing globals for more dps. The numbers will get adjusted to wherever blizz expects feral to be in the stack rank. Being happy about losing free utility when you 'could be doing something better' (which, again, would just be a placebo button to push, not more dps) seems a little... short sighted?

It's only a dps loss if you allow yourself to get energy capped with that GCD.

[Neosnyper]

Disappointing to say the least.

[Beloren]

So long as rogue and dh exist your dawn will never raise again thankfully.

I teresti g the balance druids were moaning about being the worse druid spec for most 9f wow.

I guess the game had too many melee with DH, Monk and DK all adding melee specs, they need classes that have range specs to be strong.

Shoulda given the DH a range spec for Shadowlands