9.0 General Discussion

[Sarethion]

I guess Blizzard might aim to make it something akin to what Argus, or more specifically Antoran Wastes ended up being, an infinite grindathon for resources used for pets or similar.

Well, maybe some people will like it, but to me it sounds like it's going to be boring and rather painful to do. '

But hey, we still have a little bit left to go, so maybe they will do something fun with the Maw. Fingers crossed.

[sensei-]

So what’s up with the stealth nerfs? Affliction, Arcane and Hunter all got nerfed but there’s nothing in notes.

[Relapses]

So what’s up with the stealth nerfs? Affliction, Arcane and Hunter all got nerfed but there’s nothing in notes.

It's a secret conspiracy to nerf specs and hope that they can get away with it without players noticing if they don't announce it officially.

For real, though, they've yet to do any real tuning passes so you're likely just seeing the devs play around with numbers between builds.

[Sarethion]

nothing in notes.

You mean the "Feedback: X Class Changes" posts? They seem to be mostly for big and/or design changes, not number tuning. You might have better luck with Wowhead datamining, but since that's done by a 3rd party, there's always a chance something will go under the radar

[Lex Icon]

Okay, Preach straight up says that the Maw sucks hard and feels like an unfinished, barren wasteland that's tedious, not threatening at all and not a lot of people do it, because it's not really clear what you're supposed to even be doing there.

Ouch.

Anyone with the beta has some experience with the Maw?

sounds like some of the class feedback. things are happening but testers have no clue if it's supposed to be that way or not because blizzard haven't bothered to go into it.

[Sondrelk]

Well, maybe some people will like it, but to me it sounds like it's going to be boring and rather painful to do. '

But hey, we still have a little bit left to go, so maybe they will do something fun with the Maw. Fingers crossed.

I doubt the maw will end up being relevant at this juncture. Pretty much the entire premise is centered around gameplay that no longer exists. The best we could hope for is either the grindathon or rares. At least until a later maw centric patch.
Until then I guess it will stay as a very slight warmup to your Torghast runs.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Just cause Preach says it doesn't mean thats the feeling people here will get. If the rep grind is hard he should say it instead of... "tedious."

[Dracullus]

It's late Beta, probably Maw will stay like it is, maybe with more rewards and they later expand it in 9.1, since it probably won't have new zones.

[Vakir]

Just cause Preach says it doesn't mean thats the feeling people here will get. If the rep grind is hard he should say it instead of... "tedious."

Hard implies challenge. Tedious implies extended time duration for effectively no reason. Anything can be tedious without enough engagement. It sounds like the Maw just doesn't have enough in it from their perspective. "The people here" isn't a hivemind just as anything else isn't. "Others may disagree" isn't valid reason to indirectly discredit the feedback of others.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Hard implies challenge. Tedious implies extended time duration for effectively no reason. Anything can be tedious without enough engagement. It sounds like the Maw just doesn't have enough in it from their perspective. "The people here" isn't a hivemind just as anything else isn't. "Others may disagree" isn't valid reason to indirectly discredit the feedback of others.

I was saying Preach's feelings on the Maw isn't necessarily going to be shared by everyone. It sounded like raging and very vague description of whats going on. I discredit it because I don't go on Preach's authority. I even wonder what classes he touched in the Maw to come to that conclusion.

[Sarethion]

The Maw can be a challenge if you go to the challenging areas. You cannot compare the Beastwarrens and Perdition Hold with Zovaal's Cauldron and the Tremaculum. Sorry but I doubt you can really do much in Perdition Hold without a proper group at current ilvls.
As for what we are supposed to be doing there, grind rep items for Ven'ari (seems excruciatingly slow), grind Stygia for upgrades in the Maw and Torghast, gather anima and souls.

Here is the catch. It is VASTLY less challenging (though not as efficient if you are not afraid to push things) to grind much of that in Torghast. Which ends up with the other issue of Torghast being a power fantasy instead of a challenge in any way. Which makes sense for a roguelike I guess? But it still becomes too easy too fast.

Thank you for this post, it's nice to get a second opinion on the matter. It still doesn't sound like my kind of jam, but your description is a bit less "scary"

[Dracullus]

Yup, plenty of time spend there.

The Maw can be a challenge if you go to the challenging areas. You cannot compare the Beastwarrens and Perdition Hold with Zovaal's Cauldron and the Tremaculum. Sorry but I doubt you can really do much in Perdition Hold without a proper group at current ilvls.
As for what we are supposed to be doing there, grind rep items for Ven'ari (seems excruciatingly slow), grind Stygia for upgrades in the Maw and Torghast, gather anima and souls.

Here is the catch. It is VASTLY less challenging (though not as efficient if you are not afraid to push things) to grind much of that in Torghast. Which ends up with the other issue of Torghast being a power fantasy instead of a challenge in any way. Which makes sense for a roguelike I guess? But it still becomes too easy too fast.

Thx for that. I like Preach for his honesty and feedback for classes, but when he talk about content, he describe 95% as 'boring' (including raids). Hard to get any information from feedback like that.

[Lahis]

I wouldnt say it was obivous. The running joke was of course always that Old Gods was behind it all, mostly because that was the twist behind MoP.
What was interesting about BfA was that it made the Faction War story so massive that it didnt end up making sense to switch over to Old Gods, since as I have mentioned before it didnt have any causal link between teh two to make players feel like Ny'alotha was a fitting end to an expansion that began with Sylvanas burning Teldrassil.
What we ended up with is a game that feels like it was composed of two separate parts.

inb4 Jailer is an Old God

[Vakir]

I was saying Preach's feelings on the Maw isn't necessarily going to be shared by everyone. It sounded like raging and very vague description of whats going on. I discredit it because I don't go on Preach's authority. I even wonder what classes he touched in the Maw to come to that conclusion.

The reason I put a focus on it is, respectfully, it feels like you're quick to get on anything that isn't unanimously positive, even when it is presented with good intentions.

grind Stygia for upgrades in the Maw and Torghast,

What sort of upgrades does Stygia get you for Torghast? I thought Torghast's own progression was unto itself and by-run. Interested if not.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The reason I put a focus on it is, respectfully, it feels like you're quick to get on anything that isn't unanimously positive, even when it is presented with good intentions.

I just find it hard to believe and based on total wow history big wow players in my experience are so far out to what I see. This includes Preach and while I think he was right on Covanents with that discussion with Ion.. I just don't think he is right and also I'd rather he say why then "What is it" in your typical gaming terms. As someone pointed out, he seems to say a lot of stuff is "boring" including the raiding...

I'm not picking a fight with Preach(I don't really care about him enough to do so). I'm probably the only one here that could hardly tolerate the mage tower challenges, I like the idea but what they give you to deal with IMO was very rough..and I'm stubborn so I don't back away from a challenge at the first sign of defeat.


TLDR: I just don't trust Preach's judgement in this matter. This post may be outdated 3 months.

[KOREAN DAVE]

I just find it hard to believe and based on total wow history big wow players in my experience are so far out to what I see. This includes Preach and while I think he was right on Covanents with that discussion with Ion.. I just don't think he is right and also I'd rather he say why then "What is it" in your typical gaming terms. As someone pointed out, he seems to say a lot of stuff is "boring" including the raiding...

I'm not picking a fight with Preach(I don't really care about him enough to do so). I'm probably the only one here that could hardly tolerate the mage tower challenges, I like the idea but what they give you to deal with IMO was very rough..and I'm stubborn so I don't back away from a challenge at the first sign of defeat.


TLDR: I just don't trust Preach's judgement in this matter. This post may be outdated 3 months.

Preach, much like any high level player or anyone with the slightest amount of foresight can see how this xpac's systems are lining up to be another disaster in a long line of launching expansion systems in a terrible and untested manner.

Two months for the current state of the game is not nearly enough time to iron out all of the problems with the game.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Preach, much like any high level player or anyone with the slightest amount of foresight can see how this xpac's systems are lining up to be another disaster in a long line of launching expansion systems in a terrible and untested manner.

Two months for the current state of the game is not nearly enough time to iron out all of the problems with the game.

Anyone who remembers the last three expansions can tell you that SL will launch functionally complete but with neglible balance. Only question is will it skew OP or UP.

[KOREAN DAVE]

Anyone who remembers the last three expansions can tell you that SL will launch functionally complete but with neglible balance. Only question is will it skew OP or UP.

This is a bigger deal in Shadowlands because there's four possible options that you are more or less locked into. Not even getting into general class balance

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

This is a bigger deal in Shadowlands because there's four possible options that you are more or less locked into. Not even getting into general class balance

I mean I don't even think covenants is the problem. They're not going to reach an absurd level of OP. If they're strong, Blizz just has to relent and let us hot swap, if they're weak then if anything that's good.

The part where rushing balance might torpedo Shadowlands is the Legendaries. That's where I see the potential for an Azerite or Corruption 2.0 to happen.

[infinitemeridian]

While I do want to give Blizz the benefit of the doubt, it seems there are still massive things that need work:

1) The Maw is directionless AND contentless. It needs serious updates to be remotely as interesting as what they first described.

2) World Quest system seems rushed and unfinished as well. It's not clear what their intent is with the callings and making everything take longer. I would rather they keep the pace the same as BFA but make the quests themselves more intricate.

3) I'm not as worried about the covenants as some people, but please get rid of the stupid weekly cooldown on conduits. We also still have no idea how the conduit desertion / re-joining system is going to work from what I can tell. Also, I'm not sure if any of the alt catchup stuff for covenants is implemented yet.

4) Exp gains are all over the place. I know this has been the case in past expacs, but it seems like it's impacting even 1-50.

5) Bugs on bugs on bugs. I know that there will be bugs, and there will be bugs that make it to launch, but it seems like every build, for every bug that gets fixed, we get more game-breaking bugs introduced. These aren't just "fall through the floor" bugs, these are "can't continue this questline" bugs. These MUST be made a priority, and don't see how they can do that without stopping feature work on all of the above, which I don't think would be good.