so what IS enough to be sent to the maw?
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Noble goals do not absolve atrocities done under said "noble" goals. People suffered and died under his reign as the Lich King on a massive scale, the crimes and actions were his responsibility as he was in control of it all. As for Sylvanis, that's because people are white knighting her. No matter what, she's destined for it unless the writers pull even more Mary Sue moments and excuses out of their arse.
but even then, ner'zhul decided to not follow the burning legions orders anymore and that caused him to be taken by KJ and tortured and turned into the lich king. even ner'zhul wasn't irredeemable. i think when we look for someone to be completely irredeemable, we're probably looking at post corruption deathwing, lady ashvane, gul'dan, lei shen, etc. characters who commit evil acts and have no sign of any hesitation or remorse.
deathwing wanted to the world to burn just to make it burn. ashvane kept trying to obtain power again and again, though you could make a case that she didn't do anything pure evil and thus belongs in revendreth. gul'dan only cared for power to the point of betraying the burning legion just for the possibility of power. and lei shen enslaved the pandaren, stole the power of a titan watcher, treated people inhumanly, and overall just kept abusing people again and again for his goals.
Honestly, I think their system is fed as hell if someone like Garrosh gets sent to revendreth and not maldraxxus.
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This is why there is that joke about lawyers end up in hell
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Wouldn't Gildan be classified as demon though? Given how much fel he ate? So wouldn't he end up in the nether?
Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)
Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)
Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)
The problem is that most villains in Warcraft are terribly unidimensional, despite Danuser's eyerolling-worthy statements. Warcraft doesn't have a Joker, a Cersei Lannister, a Thanos - and has never had. Therefore, if someone is well intentioned, or at some point does the right thing, it means that they were right (or wrong, this kind of "reasoning" also works in the opposite direction) all along.
When it comes to Warcraft, the only mildly interesting, somewhat better developed villains are Garrosh and Arthas. And that's where the "X was right/wrong all along hurr durr" line is exposed as the BS it actually is - even if it applies to like 90% of villains and 100% of heroes in Warcraft.
What you, and others, fail to realize in these arguments for or against someone is that regardless of their goals they are still doing evil, irredeemable things. They both want to wipe out life to preserve people thru death. It’s like saying Hitler wasn’t an evil man because he wanted to make the world a better place thru making the perfect race by wiping out those that are impure.
So while people try to discuss Arthas and Sylvanas reasons as being a greater good cause, the ends do not justify the means. In fact, the means completely outweigh and ruin the end by how truly evil and despicable they are.
So yes, Arthas does belong in The Maw. As for Syl, she definitely belongs in The Maw now; however, when Arthas killed her and she saw herself there is where I have the problem because what we know now shows she should not have been destined for there unless it she was given a false vision or there is some kind of future showing vision, as a just in case you get brought back, shown to people.
No one deserves to be in the Maw if that means eternal damnation. No criminal could be justly punished with that.
It's 2020 and people are still thinking that it was Ner'zhul controlling Arthas even though that was proven false hundred of times on this forum... That's sad.
Radical idea: Each expansion should have a different storytelling team working on it. At least then they would feel different.
Right now it feels like we've been getting a giant circlejerk for Sylvanas. For the better part of two expansions we've focused on what she wants. It's literally come at the expense of other characters and better storytelling, as Saurfang, Baine, Jaina, Anduin, Genn, Tyrande, Nathanos, Vol'jin, etc. were all made to look like fools; not to mention the entire Titan focused storyline of Stormheim that took a backseat to Sylvanas' stupid journey for a lantern. Trying to stop the Legion? Focus of all 4 zones? Too bad, we're going to force a random, pointless Alliance vs Horde conflict into a zone that achieves literally nothing and doesn't advance the story.
I have no problem with Sylvanas being a conniving, evil or grey character, but it should NOT come at the expense of everyone else. The insulting part about all of it will be when the writers justify their shitty writing in SL as "all part of her master plan!"
Nah, I would literally have rather seen her go after Bolvar because she wanted his power to make new Val'kyr, get yeeted off, and then have Bolvar attempt to conquer the Shadowlands to become the God of Death that can't be touched by mortals who crave his crown. THAT would have been better than the dogshit we got/are getting.
Arthas didn't deserve the Maw. Sylvanas' useless character absolutely does.
Sargeras had a noble goal as well. Having a noble goal doesn't make you good or evil it only serves as a justification ground for whatever evil or good deed you are about to do. It impacts the severity of what you do since intent matters absolutely but it can't absolve you completely in most cases. Having a "noble" cause is almost required to have a great villain.
To me Arthas deserves to be in the maw. Haven't read up on the criteria though on specific rules that makes you go to maw or any other covenant. So maybe he doesn't. So when I say that I mean that he is certainly evil and no noble cause can really redeem him.
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