The Failure Warmode is going into Shadowlands?

[delus]

Since covenants are supposed to matter, they could make areas for covenant vs covenant or a covenant setting for warmode.

[Nayami]

Warmode is awesome and is the only thing that makes the world feel dangerous once you've out-geared that content (or don't even have to out-gear it usually since it's just questing). The only thing I would like to be improved is a better A:H ratio per phase, though that's more easier said than done.

[glowpipe]

I know this is hard to believe but going to a server their friends are on is actually a choice. They choose to go onto their friends server.

thats not a choice. When everyone you know play on one server. You can "choose" to ditch all your friends and start fresh with new people or join the people you always played with on a server you don't want to play on. Guess what, thats not a choice. Litteraly everyone is going to follow their friends and there are no other options

[Accendor]

This, so much this.

I always have Warmode on. My free time is spent, if not in arena with my IRL friend, in the world PvPing during assaults or whatever. I like random skirms/1v2s etc. just for the hell of it. Always have.

It would be very easy (other than the coding, of course!) to fix Warmode to be best of both worlds [imo]:

• Lower/Change the XP reward
  
  Reduce it from the scaling up to 30% that it is now, maybe a flat 5 or 10% at most, and make it always on, regardless of faction and balance - this is purely a compensation to the slowdown of levelling when PvPing, but not enough to be the massive 30% that makes people use it to cut a THIRD off their levelling times. Alternatively, make it so PvP kills give XP instead or, for example, a 1-5% rested bonus similar to the items found in WoD treasures. That completely removes people in Warmode just to level faster who hate PvP.
• Remove Bonuses
  
  Remove any other rewards/bonuses that you can't get out of Warmode. Can keep PvP specific quests, just make them not doable in raids and just give credit to the PvP weekly chest, or conquest points/gold etc. Not a really good item that is a massive upgrade to everyone at the start of the expansion/first few patches.
• Fix Phasing
  
  Remove the ability to phase out for world quests for 5 minutes after PvP combat (similar to PvP flagging), and make it so you can't enter Arena Skirmishes whilst in PvP combat. Not like you lose anything with Skirms and the queues are super quick, people just abuse them to avoid dying.
• Fix faction balance
  
  Reduce the amount of shards so that all the zones are active, alive, and don't feel like 20:1 just because somewhere else in the world there is 20 of your faction on the same shard.

End result:

• People who don't want to PvP don't feel forced to join Warmode for better gear or faster levelling
• People who want to play in Warmode for WPvP have people to fight who CHOOSE to be there, and they can't be toxic morons avoiding fights by phasing out.

"Fix the faction imbalance"
You make it sound like that's an easy thing to do.
So you know what would happen if the changes you suggested would be implemented?
100% horde participation, 0% alliance
Congrats to horde, you won the faction war.
Your are not able to merge shards and servers in a way that results in equal numbers, because there literally are way less alliance players who want to turn it on, even with the 30% bonus.

[Aphrel]

That is literally the definition of a choice. There are options. You pick one of them.

You can always ask friends to join you. Make new friends. Find out that other friends playu on a different server. Etc...

for one faction its the choice of playing on 25-75 balanced pvp shards for 30% more rewards.

For the other faction its free 10% rewards with no drawbacks.

hardly an even choice.

- - - Updated - - -

Fix Phasing
Remove the ability to phase out for world quests for 5 minutes after PvP combat (similar to PvP flagging), and make it so you can't enter Arena Skirmishes whilst in PvP combat. Not like you lose anything with Skirms and the queues are super quick, people just abuse them to avoid dying.

This would be a bad change. It would make people want to avoid pvp because it limits their possibility of finding groups for elite worldQs. I definetly wouldnt be ganking if i knew id be stuck on one shard as a result.

Immagine not being able to get phased into the raid for a worldboss etc. That would suck so much.

The other suggestions are good thou. Remove the extra rewards from warmode and find out just how little players care about world pvp

[Twdft]

Nobody wants to be ganked. Nobody would activate warmode if there were no pve rewards for activating warmode and go out and start questing.

Players who actually like world pvp activate it even though they can be ganked anytime. That is the thrill of world pvp, to look over your shoulder when doing your thing because monsters are not the biggest threat.

All you get by bribing players otherwise not interested in world pvp to turn it on is ganking fodder. They are no challenge for wpvp lovers and don't enjoy it themselves because they are only there for the bribe.

For wpvp to be good everyone involved has to be there because they want to experience it. I say remove any pve rewards and give more pvp rewards. Which shouldn't be too high either because that only leads to win trading.

[Wuusah]

Players who actually like world pvp activate it even though they can be ganked anytime. That is the thrill of world pvp, to look over your shoulder when doing your thing because monsters are not the biggest threat.

All you get by bribing players otherwise not interested in world pvp to turn it on is ganking fodder. They are no challenge for wpvp lovers and don't enjoy it themselves because they are only there for the bribe.

For wpvp to be good everyone involved has to be there because they want to experience it. I say remove any pve rewards and give more pvp rewards. Which shouldn't be too high either because that only leads to win trading.

Again, this is a very naive way of thinking. That is not how the world works. Back before warmode existed, people on pvp servers were stuck with the threat of being ganked and that was how it was. But most people didn't run through the world with the intention to fight. They just want to finish their quest. Oftentimes people even saw players of the other faction and they ignored each other because in that moment they just didn't feel like doing pvp. They just want to quickly finish their quest and get their level or their daily faction rep or whatever. With warmode, these players would just deactivate pvp and remove the threat of being attacked. A very, very tiny minority wakes up in the morning and hopes that someone else starts a fight with them.
The point of warmode is to force people into world pvp even though they might not want to do pvp right now. That's what pvp servers were always about. The world is dangerous on a pvp server because you never know when someone might attack you, EVEN IF YOU DON'T WANT TO FIGHT. That's part of world pvp. Being forced into a fight even though you don't want to fight. With warmode and without rewards, people would just deactivate pvp if they don't want to fight.

world pvp is not good when people want to do world pvp. That's called a battleground. World pvp is risk versus reward.

[Vitoldos]

ReidLine will be introduced to Shadowlands?

[Xeenith]

Players who actually like world pvp activate it even though they can be ganked anytime. That is the thrill of world pvp, to look over your shoulder when doing your thing because monsters are not the biggest threat.

for people who love true chaotic world pvp, yes you are right

All you get by bribing players otherwise not interested in world pvp to turn it on is ganking fodder. They are no challenge for wpvp lovers and don't enjoy it themselves because they are only there for the bribe.

For wpvp to be good everyone involved has to be there because they want to experience it. I say remove any pve rewards and give more pvp rewards. Which shouldn't be too high either because that only leads to win trading.

gankers don't like world pvp, they like to KILL other players, they don't want challenge, they want easy "grey kill" where they have all the advantages and the victim can't do anything against them and can't escape.

pve rewards are there only to feed lambs to the gankers, nothing more.

I hate pvp, I absolutely despise gankers, I had to suffer them from vanilla to cata until I spend 150+ $ to migrate some characters to pve server. for me WM is and will stay off, and no amount of pve rewards will ever make me activate it.

and I see too many people like "I don't want pvp but I want the rewards", well honey either you butter up your ass for the gankers, or you do without your bonus, nobody force you. I'd rather the WM offer more pvp rewards so people interested in it would participate more and you'd have true world pvp instead of gank fest.

to each their own

[Ashiraya]

Players who actually like world pvp activate it even though they can be ganked anytime. That is the thrill of world pvp, to look over your shoulder when doing your thing because monsters are not the biggest threat.

All you get by bribing players otherwise not interested in world pvp to turn it on is ganking fodder. They are no challenge for wpvp lovers and don't enjoy it themselves because they are only there for the bribe.

For wpvp to be good everyone involved has to be there because they want to experience it. I say remove any pve rewards and give more pvp rewards. Which shouldn't be too high either because that only leads to win trading.

I fully agree with this. It's one of my biggest concerns with SL - on my server I get a 30% bonus, which is absolutely humongous and able to compensate for any time lost to the occasional gank several times over. Not using it feels like a straight -30% penalty, so I have used it all expansion.

But I don't like PvP. I feel like a PvPer having to raid just for arena gear. It's tedious. Ganks are completely non-interactive.

It'd be like if the Paraxis back on Argus appeared without warning and nuked you maybe a few times per week, and you were given the option to opt out of the random nuking but it meant a -30% penalty to all rewards. Okay? Is this gameplay worth preserving? It's obviously not worth the penalty, but the result is just minor if pointless tedium (and when you get unlucky, it's not so minor at all).

[jellmoo]

for one faction its the choice of playing on 25-75 balanced pvp shards for 30% more rewards.

For the other faction its free 10% rewards with no drawbacks.

hardly an even choice.

You choose between having more rewards or having better PVP balance.

That is quite literally, a choice. Just because you think one option is better does not mean it is not a choice.

[kaminaris]

"Fix the faction imbalance"
You make it sound like that's an easy thing to do.
So you know what would happen if the changes you suggested would be implemented?
100% horde participation, 0% alliance
Congrats to horde, you won the faction war.
Your are not able to merge shards and servers in a way that results in equal numbers, because there literally are way less alliance players who want to turn it on, even with the 30% bonus.

Thats pretty much it. No PVE rewards for turning WM on = no ally there. All horde and nothing to gank. Sorry but the current system is probably the only one that can work and people saying rewards needs to be nerfed are absolutely delusional.

- - - Updated - - -

You choose between having more rewards or having better PVP balance.

That is quite literally, a choice. Just because you think one option is better does not mean it is not a choice.

People who turn WM on don't do it for pvp rewards, thats the point.

[jellmoo]

People who turn WM on don't do it for pvp rewards, thats the point.

Okay, but I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that the player is given a choice. Nothing more.

[Venziir]

Okay, but I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that the player is given a choice. Nothing more.

Sure, you are given a choice. But the options aren't equal though, one litterally gives you more gold, resources, xp and a new set of talents, where as the other one gives you nothing.

[jellmoo]

Sure, you are given a choice. But the options aren't equal though, one litterally gives you more gold, resources, xp and a new set of talents, where as the other one gives you nothing.

Again, that is subjective. Which do you value more: those rewards, or being on the more balanced group? Risk versus reward is very much a choice.

[Wuusah]

Sure, you are given a choice. But the options aren't equal though, one litterally gives you more gold, resources, xp and a new set of talents, where as the other one gives you nothing.

time. The other one gives you time. If you have an hour to play the game, then warmode could be detrimental because you might not be able to finish your quests in that time due to the other faction attacking you.

And if time is no constraint for you, then it's still an opportunity cost. You could be doing something else in the time you are fighting in world pvp.

[Venziir]

Again, that is subjective. Which do you value more: those rewards, or being on the more balanced group? Risk versus reward is very much a choice.

Well judging by how many people who, at launch at least, felt forced into Warmode I'd argue that the choices still aren't equal.

- - - Updated - - -

time. The other one gives you time. If you have an hour to play the game, then warmode could be detrimental because you might not be able to finish your quests in that time due to the other faction attacking you.

And if time is no constraint for you, then it's still an opportunity cost. You could be doing something else in the time you are fighting in world pvp.

This is obviously true, and sure I did disable Warmode when leveling my Alliance character where as all my Horde ones had it activated with no problems whatsoever.

[Ihazpaws]

WM is fine but it needs a somekind indication in LFG tool. It's annoying to join in world content group that has no WM on.
Also blizz really should just nerf horde racials to balance out them with alliance ones. Even make some alliance ones slightly better to get people moving back to alliance or open free faction change. I am so bored to play as a horde but all my friends play one mostly because of the racials being so OP.

[jellmoo]

Well judging by how many people who, at launch at least, felt forced into Warmode I'd argue that the choices still aren't equal.

Sure. But the perception of inequality between choices doesn't invalidate the choice.

[Venziir]

Sure. But the perception of inequality between choices doesn't invalidate the choice.

Oh I never meant to imply that