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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by eurojust View Post
    What about his version on Azeroth AU where he's a good King? What will happen to that version?
    This is exactly what I was thinking.

    If Shadowlands transcend timelines, then the Arbiter would eventually meet King Arthas, a version of Arthas that wasn't led astray by Frostmourne. At which point, she'd realize that Arthas had the potential for good, and could redeem himself completely.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    The timing doesn't work for that because Ysera was the last soul to make it before everything got sent to the maw.

    *Unless!

    *They do that time thing where it flows differently in the shadowlands as spoken in BlizzCon and make it match that way
    It is possible that the mechanism started breaking back then and sometime after Ysera made it to Ardenweald it was all completely broken. In other words, it is possible that this situation unfolded over an extended period of time, between the canonical end of the ICC raid and the Emerald Nightmare arc in Val'sharah, not abruptly.

  3. #183
    Arthas doesn't deserve the Maw, just Revendreth. Ner'zhul deserves the Maw.

  4. #184
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Personally, yeah I think he should be.


    I know Chris Metzen is not very well liked by half of this forum, but I remember at one BlizzCon he was asked about redeeming characters like Illidan. That's when Metzen first mentioned about wanting to do right by Illidan's story but in regards to Arthas he said, "Oh noooo, you gotta burn, brotha" or something a long those lines. I am in agreement. Even in the Arthas novel it established that he willfully chose to be the Lich King.


    Or was it just the dominant personality? If we had Arthas, Ner'zhul, and Matthias as struggling personalities with Ner'zhul as the "evil" and Matthias as the last glimmer of his humanity - the "good" - but Arthas still chose to kill off both of them. Wouldn't that be Arthas making the conscious choice to choose evil?


    Although the 'Afterlives' video implies that he may have had another destination in mind in the Shadowlands. That implication is thin though. He just didn't receive the chance to be judged. He very well may have still ended up in the Maw, but it seems Blizzard may want to tell a story of "what was intended for Arthas in the afterlife?" and we way explore that.


    If that is the case, and this "story" is explored for the entirety of the expansion to only reveal that, yes, he was supposed to go to the Maw and there is no redemption for him, I'm going to look back on all of these threads and laugh.
    Last edited by KOUNTERPARTS; 2020-08-29 at 12:21 PM.

  5. #185
    Arthas did nothing wrong. Every bad thing he did was under the control of Frostmourne.

  6. #186
    I'm guessing Revendreth, and Maw if he didn't "adjust". Not sure how far they'll explore this though, since it's easy to ruin his "legacy" by tampering too much with the character at this point. My guess is that they'll keep the question open, since sometimes leaving it a mystery is better than ruining it by giving it a weak explanation.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    But he didn’t burn a city or sacrifice himself for selfless reasons. He burnt his city, so to speak, with innocent people in it that he could have taken alternative measures to try and help. He also didn’t sacrifice his own body, he sacrificed his soul to gain power for revenge. That’s selfish, not selfless.
    As for Frostmourne, Arthas committed atrocities before he found the blade. Stratholme was before the blade. Killing indigenous people, scuttling his own ships, and betraying his own sailors and people after making landfall in Northrend was before the blade. Leaving Magni to die after just finding Frostmourne was before he was completely corrupted, and was actually just the start of it. He was a terrible person before he was corrupted, if he even was corrupted, by possessing Frostmourne and the Helm of Dominion.
    When Arthas made the call to purge Strathholme, it was just after he barely survived the first waves of undead from the outlying area around Hearthglen. Against an entire city, with no real reinforcements, and an enemy that can turn your own fallen men against you, would be a near impossible fight and if he fell the undead would sweep over the entire kingdom. He couldn't tell who was infected, he couldn't cure those who were and still lived. Cutting off a diseased limb to save the body is an act of sacrifice, however terrible it may be. Seeking justice for the innocent people Mal'ganis forced him to kill is more gray than evil, and burning the ships can again be seen as an act of sacrifice of his role as a leader, and of his honor. He did terrible things yes, but not for himself, he did not enjoy one second of it, and he gave up everything he had and everything he controlled to fight the darkness threatening his people.

    In the end when he said he would "I would gladly bear any curse to save my homeland." and "Now, I call out to the spirits of this place. I will give anything or pay any price, if only you will help me save my people." he sacrificed his own body and soul. After that the sword took over, it told him to abandon Muradin, it helped him tear through the undead forces and Mal'ganis himself, and it ripped apart any humanity he had left before he went on a killing-spree. The blade was left for Arthas to find, and put him under direct influence of the Lich King, the actual unforgivable atrocities started after he took up that cursed maw empowered blade.

  8. #188
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    It is possible that the mechanism started breaking back then and sometime after Ysera made it to Ardenweald it was all completely broken. In other words, it is possible that this situation unfolded over an extended period of time, between the canonical end of the ICC raid and the Emerald Nightmare arc in Val'sharah, not abruptly.
    Could be, we are like Jon Snow right now. Hopefully they do clarify it and don't leave it as some mystery in the campaign.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbuckeye View Post
    "What are you doing, my son?"

    "Succeeding you."

    Arthas was a PoS before he became the Lich King.

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
    He was already corrupted by Frostmourne when that happened. He didn't become the Lich King until he donned the helmet and merged with Ner'zhul, but he was corrupted long before then

  10. #190
    Why no poll ? Quick answer to a quick question

  11. #191
    As long as I get to see Sylvanas finally get revenge, who cares.

  12. #192
    I would definitely say he was meant to go to Revendreth, even without the free will argument. His intentions were simply too good to preclude him from a chance at redemption. The Maw it seems would be for whoever did evil things solely for selfish means. Kel'thuzad for instance helping doom his country solely for the chance to be more powerful.

    I am fairly confident we will be looking at a later covenant questline where Arthas goes to Revendreth, if anything just because the Venthyr covenant needs some meat to the story after the raid and Kael'thas.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  13. #193
    Herald of the Titans Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    As of the new lore, Ner'zul is the first one we know of to have come into contact with the Jailer while he was in the Shadowlands.
    Not really, he could have had some contact, but the fact is that the Lich King is a creation of the Burning Legion, so, it isn't required to him to have had any contact. Ner'Zhull was trapped in the armor against its will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Source: Frostmourne uses the Jailer's runes.
    Correction, Frostmourne uses the Maw's runes, we will only discover how that happened during Shadowlands. It's not yet a proved fact, sorry.

  14. #194
    Yes?

    Why?

    Because of all the murder and the near genecide of handful species!

    These might be better attributed to Neh'zul but Arthas helped in executing alot of it.
    Last edited by Newname1234567890; 2020-08-30 at 06:05 PM.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Frostmourne was created by the Lich King. It's the Lich King's tool, he has power over it.

    Sorry, but yes, we know with certainty that this is true. And if it ends up NOT being true, it's another story fuck up on Blizzard's part.
    that retcon has already happened.
    Tichondrius claimed that the Lich King forged the sword in Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos,[16] however, Manual of Monsters told that demons had created Frostmourne.[17] Arthas: Rise of the Lich King revealed that those demons were the Nathrezim,[18] thus invalidating Tichondrius first statement because, if his race created the sword, it would be odd that their leader knew a different origin (unless he was lying, which is always a possibility with the Dreadlords).
    https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Retc...on#Frostmourne

    Considering Ner'zul rips the sword out of his icy prison and it was originally locked in there with his armour I think it having been made by the Legion is the more logical origin.

    At what point between leaving Outlands and being captured by the Legion, having his soul ripped from his body and bound to the armour did he create Frostmourn?
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  16. #196
    First things first
    The blue woman is hot
    With the most important thing out of the way, no. Arthas did do good before his descent into darkness, he took up Frostmourne with good intents, the noble purpose of revenge and killing dreadlords. But after taking up frostmourne he has been manipulated and as far as i know mind controlled. Can't really make choices about doing good or evil if you're mind controlled by someone else.

  17. #197
    Scarab Lord
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    No, normally nobody is beyond redemption and rehabilitation, however one have to wonder how much humanity is left after his ordeal as well as his own thoughts on this fate of his. It's the perfect teaser to build hype imo.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  18. #198
    I guess he deserves a shot at Revendreth before that.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I said "NOBLE GOALS", not "NOBLE ACTIONS". This is the second time I have to say this.

    Sylvanas has no noble goal, no ulterior motive, she is a nihilist who believes it is foolish to cling to hope and life, and wants to break the cosmos, which she perceives as cruel. Arthas' goal were objectively noble, he wanted to end all wars and unite the world against the Legion. He simply went about it the wrong way.

    Kael'thas and Garrosh committed countless atrocities, Garrosh for reasons that were worse than Arthas, yet they both went to Revendreth. The story is clear, and agrees with me.
    If Arthas is fundamentally good then legion and sargeras is good aswell as their fundamental goal is to stop void lords and that means arthas actively wanted to prevent legion from doing this meaning he can't be redeemable as he worked for the benefits of the void lords.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    The same time he was leading the entire Scourge. At any point, he could have made any undead blacksmith forge Frostmourne. He had literal control over entire armies of undead by the time the plagued grain became a thing.

    He didn't just come into being and get shoved into Icecrown to never be used again. Characters exist even when they're not being used. Ner'zul's Lich King self existed on Azeroth for years before he became super active. Even if HE himself didn't make the sword (duh, he's been frozen in ice for decades) the Legion still worked WITH him at the time, so "demons made the sword" would still make sense as "his minions" made the sword.

    It also explains why the dreadlords are so concerned with Sylvanas - She's following the steps of the Lich King. The Lich King already betrayed the Legion. Any allies of the Lich King, are enemies of the Legion due to their connection.
    The sword was in the ice with him, when he ejects the blade it cracks his prison, which caues his energy to leak. That is part of why he calls Arthas back to Northrend after the Scourge tears Lorderon apart.
    This is mentioned in WC3.

    If Ner'zul had it made after becoming the LK, how does it end up in the ice with him in such a way that pulling it back out breaks his casing?
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

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