So... Arthas wielded the Powers from the Maw... and the role of light

[uikolertekopoku]

The Helm of Domination and Frostmourne originated in the Maw.

Somehow Kiljaeden got the Sword and the Armor...

Arthas became the The Lichking

Arthas only died because deus ex miracle of the Light

The Light and the Void tried before invade the shadowlands

Kiljaeden was a pawn

The Jailer had too be directly responsible for the events

Jailer->Frostmourne->arthas->sylvanas->deal-breaking the helm of domination->shadowlands

But where „the light“ god i hate this deus ex things... the light miracle ultimately defeating Arthas.

Where The Light fits into it.

Jailer->Frostmourne/Helm of Domination->arthas->sylvanas->Arthas death->gay bolvar lichking->sylvanas second death->deal>breaking the helm of domination>shadowlands

Without the intervention of the Light there would no be breaking the Helm of Domination.

So going to first place when jailer orchestred all things...how could the Jailer know the light will „intervene“ causing in the end that sylvanas had the possibility Too destroy the helm.

And what the Light did deus ex?

Reveal in a future expansion? That after we return from Shadowlands and get a bridge expansion, that without the events of shadowlands wich the light is indirectly responsible for even happeneing the current expansion 2030 XD would not be possible.

[scrappybristol]

I think it's implied that the Nathrezim have close ties to the Shadowlands and either cut a deal with the jailer for the helm and frostmourne or took it themselves.

[Aucald]

I'm increasingly of the mind that the Jailer forged the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne (via his imprisonment of the Runecarver), and simply allowed these implements to find their ways into the hands of the Legion, knowing that the chaotic and evil nature of the demons would see them used appropriately. This is ironically the same tack the Lich King would later use to get Frostmourne into the hands of Prince Arthas, which makes a lot of thematic sense in retrospect. As for the Light, I don't think any great movements behind the scene were required to understand its role in the Lich King's demise - it was answering the call of Tirion, one of its most devout adherents, in his time of great need. This is kind of what the Light does, albeit often inscrutably. I don't think the Light had any greater plans than helping Tirion slay the Lich King, the Lich King being the foe of life and a servant of both shadow and death. That this would eventually lead to the Helm being sundered and the breaking of the veil between Life and Death wasn't something any could know (except perhaps the Jailer who was banking on the eventuality).

[uikolertekopoku]

I'm increasingly of the mind that the Jailer forged the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne (via his imprisonment of the Runecarver), and simply allowed these implements to find their ways into the hands of the Legion, knowing that the chaotic and evil nature of the demons would see them used appropriately. This is ironically the same tack the Lich King would later use to get Frostmourne into the hands of Prince Arthas, which makes a lot of thematic sense in retrospect. As for the Light, I don't think any great movements behind the scene were required to understand its role in the Lich King's demise - it was answering the call of Tirion, one of its most devout adherents, in his time of great need. This is kind of what the Light does, albeit often inscrutably. I don't think the Light had any greater plans than helping Tirion slay the Lich King, the Lich King being the foe of life and a servant of both shadow and death. That this would eventually lead to the Helm being sundered and the breaking of the veil between Life and Death wasn't something any could know (except perhaps the Jailer who was banking on the eventuality).

„except perhaps the Jailer who was banking on the eventuality„

Trojan horse, he hoped somebody will open the image attached to the mail.

But how high are the chances that the Blade and the Helm fullfilled their purpose and arriving @ their final destination?

You can spam . Or directly target.

Seeing the reaction from the Bastion Trailer it happened never before.

So it cant be just that he banged on the eventuality.

The whole way Had to be planned... There could be no random event like Light Intervention.

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But i also agree that for now we dont get a answear.

Maybe in a future expansion we will learn how the Light performed „miracles“ or maybe in the POV from an Light being equal to devos why@this moment their was a intervention.

Maybe we will learn how the miracles actually changed things that will be later revealed.

[Aucald]

„except perhaps the Jailer who was banking on the eventuality„

Trojan horse, he hoped somebody will open the image attached to the mail.

But how high are the chances that the Blade and the Helm fullfilled their purpose and arriving @ their final destination?

You can spam . Or directly target.

Seeing the reaction from the Bastion Trailer it happened never before.

So it cant be just that he banged on the eventuality.

The whole way Had to be planned... There could be no random event like Light Intervention.

The Light's motives and ultimate goals are difficult to discern - it often acts where it's least expected, and sometimes fails to act where you'd expect it to. The Light is also more concerned with checking the Void, it's apparent equal and opposite; so contending with the forces of Death are kind of beyond its purview in the majority of cases. Tirion's case could just be it responding to the fervent pleas of one of the devout, or it could be a single move on the ineffable Chess board of the higher powers towards an ultimate conclusion we can only guess at.

[Varodoc]

Curious how the Light caused the Lich King's defeat and the setback of the Jailer's plans on Azeroth, and yet at the same time has dealings with the Jailer. N'Zoth stated that the Light made a pact with Jailer/Death (the enemy of all, from his perspective).

[korijenkins]

I'd love to see some kind of reaction from bringing the Frost DK weapons to the Shadowlands. After all, they were reforged from the sword itself.

Of course, it's interesting to think that Frostmourne was even capable of being destroyed by a mortal weapon. The Shadowlands are implied to be above everything else, yet a weapon that originated from them is vulnerable to something some drunk paladins made accidentally? (Joke of course)

[uikolertekopoku]

We can all agree that the Helm of Domination and the creation of it was planned.

That seeing the reaction from devos it happened never before

That there is no possibility that the Helm and Blade arrived random to Kiljaeden or Azeroth

Ultimately ending in the creation of the Lichking

Than The Lichking got K.O by the Light.

The question is why the Light is interfering in Death not beeinf the opposite

And if it was a SETBACK to the jailer (as mentioned by previous post)

or actually part of a bigger plan the jailer even dont knew about. Puppet of the Puppets Pupet

Or all happend according to jailer plans

[Darknessvamp]

Although I'm not saying it's going to happen, I wouldn't be surprised if the Brokers are going to suddenly be elevated to have been at the centre of everything all along.

[Varodoc]

We can all agree that the Helm of Domination and the creation of it was planned.

That seeing the reaction from devos it happened never before

That there is no possibility that the Helm and Blade arrived random to Kiljaeden or Azeroth

Ultimately ending in the creation of the Lichking

Than The Lichking got K.O by the Light.

The question is why the Light is interfering in Death not beeinf the opposite

And if it was a SETBACK to the jailer (as mentioned by previous post)

or actually part of a bigger plan the jailer even dont knew about. Puppet of the Puppets Pupet

Or all happend according to jailer plans

Of course it was a setback. If the Lich King won everyone in the world would have died. What the Lich King was doing is no different than what Sylvanas is trying to do now, and like Sylvanas the Lich King had the power of the Maw with him through Frostmourne. So of course the defeat of the Lich King and destruction of Frostmourne did not benefit the Jailer in any way.

[tommyhil622]

I'd love to see some kind of reaction from bringing the Frost DK weapons to the Shadowlands. After all, they were reforged from the sword itself.

Of course, it's interesting to think that Frostmourne was even capable of being destroyed by a mortal weapon. The Shadowlands are implied to be above everything else, yet a weapon that originated from them is vulnerable to something some drunk paladins made accidentally? (Joke of course)

Keep in mind, we went inside Frostmourne to weaken it from within. It wasn't just Ashbringer that caused it to break.

[Nerovar]

I'd love to see some kind of reaction from bringing the Frost DK weapons to the Shadowlands. After all, they were reforged from the sword itself.

Of course, it's interesting to think that Frostmourne was even capable of being destroyed by a mortal weapon. The Shadowlands are implied to be above everything else, yet a weapon that originated from them is vulnerable to something some drunk paladins made accidentally? (Joke of course)

I think the "Shadowlands are above everything else" is just the regular old "new expansion" power creep they somehow have to throw in so we feel like we're learning the next higher super saiyan form.

In regards to Frostmourne's destruction: it originates in older lore where everything Undeath-related was Shadow magic and therefor it was logical that an equally powerful Light-aligned blade could destroy it. Of course, now that the definitions have changed over many a retcon it makes much less sense unfortunately.

[Villager720]

I am fairly confident that Sire Denathrius (an ally of the Jailer) has some sort of relationship with the Nathrezim - the Nathrezim who, whaddayaknow, then "mysteriously" and conveniently acquired a weapon and helmet from the Maw to use in their machinations.
That seems like a fairly straight line to draw for me.
I also wouldn't put the Nathrezim past playing both Death and the Legion by tacitly supporting both while furthering their own cause(s).
(They were supposed to inherit control of the Scourge after all.)

So.
If the Jailer was responsible for the Lich King via his Nathrezim "pawns", I wonder if he also intended for the Scourge to then go rogue and betray it's "creators": the Legion/Nathrezim. He didn't select Ner'zhul after all.
Interesting stuff though.

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Of course, it's interesting to think that Frostmourne was even capable of being destroyed by a mortal weapon. The Shadowlands are implied to be above everything else, yet a weapon that originated from them is vulnerable to something some drunk paladins made accidentally? (Joke of course)

To be fair to the Ashbringer - it's power source (seemingly a naaru core) might also not be from the mortal plane of existence.

[uikolertekopoku]

In a future expansion we will see how a light equally entity or a naaru devos intervened@ The Frozen throne leading to the death of arthas.

Who prevented something or causing something because the jailer was manipulated by a voidlord or other void stuff could would happen

Or would cause i a for us now unknown event in the future or creating even it to let it happen

[BananaHandsB]

how could the Jailer know the light will „intervene“ causing in the end that sylvanas had the possibility Too destroy the helm.

If the jailer really had all this foresight and set all this in motion, it's reasonable to assume he could also predict that the light (or even some other great power) would intervene to defeat Arthas.

[uikolertekopoku]

If the jailer really had all this foresight and set all this in motion, it's reasonable to assume he could also predict that the light (or even some other great power) would intervene to defeat Arthas.

As stated before by the reaction of devos nothing similar happened before.

So we can assume when such a thing happened that the jailer had foresight and ultimately he had also than had too knew that arthas would overcome nerzuhl and taking complete control lurking us to the frozen throne where he than as intended or „hoped“ „planned“ would be defeated than that is what he wanted?

Or he really wanted the LK to win, but what than would be his goal? Transferring souls feom the blade to the maw and letting Arthas LK to collecting it for hin

Or was it a setback.. ans the light fucked his LK plans ans he had to change his plans involving sylvanas, but even when he had too change his plans



Because that leads to sylvanas second death her transformation and ultimately powering her up to destroy the helm of domination.

But than it comes me too mind that the jailer said“ impossible a relict of the first ones responded to a mortal“ what in turns than suggests that he had not this foresight

Because he was surprised by the event that this happend

Or we later i a future light/void exp learn that a naaru or light entity wanted that this will happen

We allawys go back to the point if the lights intervention was a surprise for him.

Or it was like@ alucold said s bigger chessgame to A not known higher plan, but than it had to be somehow relsted to the void.

Because the voids primary antagonist is the void, i cant beliefe that the light in wow can be compared to common real life belief in light/holy want from its nature to prevent death of licing beings because the light itself in our rl view or understanding of it would act in most common beleive.


But when it was planned the line that he said that he was surprised that a first one relict respondd hints towards he dont wanted this.

[The5thVegetable]

I don't necessarily think this all has to have been planned. First of all, the Legion is very powerful, and demons aren't inherently tied to the Shadowlands as mortal beings are- it's reasonable to assume that they could somehow find a way to enter and leave the maw, and as has been mentioned, the Nathrezim may have some level of familiarity with death (especially seeing as they were creating undead during the WoTA).

Personally, I think it's more likely that Kil'jaeden simply turned his attention to the Shadowlands in search of something to weaken Azeroth, and somehow came to acquire the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne, with the Jailer later coming into contact with Sylvanas and using the helm's existence as an opportunity to further his own goals. Repurposing the tools left over from someone else's plan, essentially.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The Light's motives and ultimate goals are difficult to discern - it often acts where it's least expected, and sometimes fails to act where you'd expect it to. The Light is also more concerned with checking the Void, it's apparent equal and opposite; so contending with the forces of Death are kind of beyond its purview in the majority of cases. Tirion's case could just be it responding to the fervent pleas of one of the devout, or it could be a single move on the ineffable Chess board of the higher powers towards an ultimate conclusion we can only guess at.

It responds to a lot of calls but based on...everything..any kind of dark power, the Light goes against and that includes death. I dunno if N'zoth's "The Light made a deal with the enemy of all."

I dunno why..in context he'd mention something that happened so long ago(Uther was killed a long time ago Warcraft story wise).

[Aucald]

It responds to a lot of calls but based on...everything..any kind of dark power, the Light goes against and that includes death. I dunno if N'zoth's "The Light made a deal with the enemy of all."

I dunno why..in context he'd mention something that happened so long ago(Uther was killed a long time ago Warcraft story wise).

It didn't do anything for the devout of Teldrassil, which is a hefty plot point that played into Tyrande becoming the Night Warrior as well as the fall of both Delaryn Summermoon and Sira Moonwarden. As for N'Zoth and Il'gynoth, probably best to take what they say with a wheelbarrow of salt - they can lie with considerable skill, using the truth but hedging the context.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It didn't do anything for the devout of Teldrassil, which is a hefty plot point that played into Tyrande becoming the Night Warrior as well as the fall of both Delaryn Summermoon and Sira Moonwarden. As for N'Zoth and Il'gynoth, probably best to take what they say with a wheelbarrow of salt - they can lie with considerable skill, using the truth but hedging the context.

I somehow remember we might learn why Elune was..well not helping her children.