Toxic M+ Leavers

[OokOok]

I don't think you were there for TBC heroics. It was much worse than today back in TBC. Tanks would insta leave for pretty much anything. No matter how minor. They held all the power back in the day.

Well tanks held all the power in TBC because there was no LFG, you couldn't just que up for a new tank. If a tank left the group was over. There was also no cross server dngs it was pretty easy to write down someones name and avoid them in the future, this limited your options of tanks but it also meant you didn't have to worry about a tank leaving. However tanks are very emotional people, you had to tip toe around their every whim or you risk upsetting them and then yeah they leave.

This happened in raiding guilds too, if your tank left you were basically screwed because in TBC most guilds geared up the tank first and if one left and you were working on Kael'thas you weren't raiding anymore. Which is why the whole "Raid leaders/GM/Officers are usually the tanks" became a thing because those 3 positions are less likely to leave a guild over a random trial/member.

[arkanon]

However tanks are very emotional people, you had to tip toe around their every whim or you risk upsetting them and then yeah they leave.

Haha, you started off so well, and then had to go off on some weird tangent. Tanks are "emotional people"? I have seen dps throw an absolute tantrum and kick another dps, because they were "ego dpsing" and "being greedy with their damage" and "aoeing when they didnt need to". This wasnt a short and sweet kick and continue, nope, it went on for 5+ minutes before i left and moved on.

Imagine being so insecure you remove someone from the group because they are doing their task too well. My point is, tanks play dps and healers as well - the PLAYER might be "emotional", but the role cannot.

[Bloodyleech]

It doesn't come down to the class at all. It's purely a player skill issue you are describing. Any tank able to roll their face across a keyboard should be able to survive just fine in a 20 not wearing full vers%

Start living in pug-world and you'll actually be able to understand it.

[Pohut]

Well tanks held all the power in TBC because there was no LFG, you couldn't just que up for a new tank. If a tank left the group was over. There was also no cross server dngs it was pretty easy to write down someones name and avoid them in the future, this limited your options of tanks but it also meant you didn't have to worry about a tank leaving. However tanks are very emotional people, you had to tip toe around their every whim or you risk upsetting them and then yeah they leave.

This happened in raiding guilds too, if your tank left you were basically screwed because in TBC most guilds geared up the tank first and if one left and you were working on Kael'thas you weren't raiding anymore. Which is why the whole "Raid leaders/GM/Officers are usually the tanks" became a thing because those 3 positions are less likely to leave a guild over a random trial/member.

My point was that idea that behaviour started recently is laughable. It's always been there.

[arkanon]

My point was that idea that behaviour started recently is laughable. It's always been there.

Rose tinted glasses my dude, HEAVY tint. People seem to only remember the good times from those days, which is probably for the best.

[Katie N]

Start living in pug-world and you'll actually be able to understand it.

Pugs are so stupid. xD

Started a +15 on my alt, 3 dps joins as a group and then they keep dying to avoidable damage and then rage at me for not saving them from dying from avoidable damage and then they leave.

[Bloodyleech]

Pugs are so stupid. xD

Started a +15 on my alt, 3 dps joins as a group and then they keep dying to avoidable damage and then rage at me for not saving them from dying from avoidable damage and then they leave.

Exactly. Pugs are completely stupid.
Necroweek, Warriortank, raging at me for dying - why did I die? He had over 40 stacks and jumped into the next group, had to BoP him, group had aggro due to him not cancelaura the bop. Said he had aggro, said I should've BoP'd him.
Yeah.

[Sunnydee]

I doubt this is very high on the list of things they want their GMs to be handling. There are so many mitigating factors which can lead to a disbanded group that it would be almost impossible to differentiate between a bad PuG and somebody intentionally nuking a key.

well i mean, griefing CAN get you suspended. So if someone would get enough reports for leaving runs id see that as griefing report (not in the one players PoV but in an overall)

[Wuusah]

Exactly. Pugs are completely stupid.
Necroweek, Warriortank, raging at me for dying - why did I die? He had over 40 stacks and jumped into the next group, had to BoP him, group had aggro due to him not cancelaura the bop. Said he had aggro, said I should've BoP'd him.
Yeah.

pugs can be stupid. You play with strangers. They can be good and they can be bad. M+ affixes are one of the downsides of rio. Someone could have a score of 2k-3k but has never played during necrotic before...

The funny thing is, I've never had a bad experience during necrotic. It helps that I'm the tank, but every time I did my weekly +15 in necrotic weeks, there were teammates who were helping out with the stacks. Hunters who made their pet taunt, for example.

[Grimbold21]

My point was that idea that behaviour started recently is laughable. It's always been there.

Well, I'm forced to be "that" guy and suggest that there's a reading comprehension issue here, because I did not assert that this behaviour didn't exist. I suggested that it it didn't seem as prominent as it is today.

I don't think you were there for TBC heroics. It was much worse than today back in TBC. Tanks would insta leave for pretty much anything. No matter how minor. They held all the power back in the day.

Additionally, this then just comes down to subjective experience.

The difference between then and now is that the system grants the tank further power - or anyone else leaving for that matter - because replacements are not possible. Then, you could always choose the hassle of trying to replacing a tank that left.

It's subjective and since these examples are closer in time, they come across as more absurd.

For instance, months ago, I was healing a low level pug Freehold. We cleared the dungeon up to the 2nd boss, at which point the tank gets annoyed with me and leaves. Why? Because I was putting up Skulls on mobs.

Now, let's get the It's not your job to do that out of the away, because it's nonsensical. Not only is it a pug, but the majority of tanks I come across do not prio target. Also saying as a defense "it's low m+, what does it matter anyway" is useless and bad faith.

Why do I do it as a healer? First, I give the tank a few packs to see if he does anything. And I do it to obviously set up a kill order, to hopefully have people tunnel vision on one mob and noticed that there are casts that need interrupting, and because of such casts and abilities, I Skull mobs that are annoying to me as a healer if they manage to do their thing.

But the tank raged, giving the usual "I do higher m+ than this on my main" yada yada speech. And I'm like "just trying to help".

If you didn't notice by now, these are examples of specific actions that don't harm the group in any way, but instead hit the tank in the ego apparently.

[T-34]

well i mean, griefing CAN get you suspended. So if someone would get enough reports for leaving runs id see that as griefing report (not in the one players PoV but in an overall)

No. Kicking people or leaving groups are fully supported actions according to Blizzard's policy:

"Groups are empowered to manage their own members through the vote-kick system. If the majority of the group feels a player should be removed, they can initiate a vote-kick to remove them. The system is entirely under the control of our players. Players may choose to remove any other player from the group for any reason, provided the vote to kick passes."
https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/52363

and

"Player Left Mythic Dungeon Before completing
Updated: 3 weeks ago
Article ID: 117469
Relevant Products:
Common Problems

Group wiped while doing a mythic plus and the player we invited to our group left
I just started a mythic plus run and a member left

Customer Support does not upgrade, restore, or create keystones. Running the dungeon again with the downgraded keystone will award a new upgraded keystone, as long as finished within the time limit."
https://eu.battle.net/support/en/article/117469

Blizzard has and has always a had a 100% hands-off approach to player to player-interaction, barring threats, foul language, stalking etc.
So you can kick and leave all that you want. Both actions are supported by Blizzard's policy.

[Sunnydee]

text

Removing a person from group and leaving repeatedly isnt really same people.

Also you missed my tone in the message, i wasnt stating you will get suspended for spam leaving started keys, im saying griefing can get you suspended. Therefor im still in the right, so a No isnt correct either.

However, i didnt not know that spam leaving (lets face it if you do it 10 times a day id assume this person is doing it on purpose to fuck people over) was Ok by blizzards book. I was simply stating that griefing is suspendable and I would see spam leaving as a form of behavior.

So if someone would get enough reports for leaving runs i'd see that as griefing report (not in the one players PoV but in an overall)

[Miyagie]

Start living in pug-world and you'll actually be able to understand it.

I just did always the minimum with my guild (because they are not good) and then Pug some M+ for fun and even with my well geared BDK i could never do a 20+ with randoms.

[korijenkins]

3 out of 3 runs ruined at the last boss. You seem to be the common denominator. From your OP it is easy to see that you are the toxic one. You should have a good look at yourself and ask why people don't like playing with you.

As to the gear issue there isn't anything else you can do if you don't raid more than LFR. You might not have time and that is OK. I believe you shouldn't run anything you don't want to but it looks like your character is cursed. Is creating a new one out if the question?

Gonna defend OP here. Nothing in that post implied he was toxic. You're simply a naive pleb if you think the game is devoid of toxic trolls. Hell, I have a friend who used to join M+ and leave immediately just to make them pop the key for no reason.

[Firebert]

Is soloing an M+ key as a Blood DK (for example) a thing?

Maybe if M+ had an option for solo content, leavers would literally stop being a thing.

[Swnem]

Honestly, i just think that if keys didn't downgrade, these problems would go away.

Maybe if there are problems with whether people can run the key, you can right click it and downgrade it a level manually each time.

Unless i am missing something, it would solve the problem cause if someone left, you could at least get a replacement and go again. Of course, it wouldn't stop trolls, but at least the damage would be mitigated.

[Wuusah]

Honestly, i just think that if keys didn't downgrade, these problems would go away.

Maybe if there are problems with whether people can run the key, you can right click it and downgrade it a level manually each time.

Unless i am missing something, it would solve the problem cause if someone left, you could at least get a replacement and go again. Of course, it wouldn't stop trolls, but at least the damage would be mitigated.

How about this compromise:
Keys never downgrade but you need to finish in time to make it count for the weekly chest

[LDancer]

Put a debuff on leavers stop them spreading their toxic behaviour. Give them a 24hr debuff that shows they abandoned a key previously but not stop them joining more runs.

At least the key holder when forming a group can be somewhat advised of the pugs potential behaviour.

If the group wanted to reset and downgrade their key, have it so the key holder can abandon the attempt and you can start again. Would stop pugs joining and bailing when the show got tough and allow a premade group trying to clear a particular dungeon the ability to reset and not get penalised.

[Toybox]

How about this compromise:
Keys never downgrade but you need to finish in time to make it count for the weekly chest

That'd kill it for a lot of people. Hell, early expansion M+ for good players would be a pain if we had to time our week one 10/12 keys.

[Wuusah]

That'd kill it for a lot of people. Hell, early expansion M+ for good players would be a pain if we had to time our week one 10/12 keys.

I don’t see an issue with not getting top rewards. Do lower keys first and work your way up. The way M+ is right now it’s way too easy to get a good reward. It’s in no relation to the difficulty of beating mythic raid bosses or reaching 2.4k rating in PvP.

But my point is simply that if keys never downgrade then there has to be an incentive to downgrade them manually or all keys from all players would just inflate over the weeks and months