Arthas was bad before he even touched frostmourne...

[Lolites]

I mean, it is a situation that they have never faced before. I don't think going "Think on your feet or get out of my face" makes Arthas looks reasonable himself.

in the situation where waiting is making it worse? eh... maybe not reasonable, but doesnt make him "bad person" either...
tbh he make a tough choice, but he hardly have any options, waiting for Uther or Jaina to get his father and other politicians involved would result in further spread of blight, so most likely more dead...

[BrintoSFJ]

Yes, because Jaina was just as inexperienced with the crazy stuff that was going on, and her first thought wasn't 'lets kill them all', but 'let's find another way.'


1. No one knew it was a zombie plague, just a regular sickness. And honestly, after all his Paladin training, you're seriously suggesting he wasn't ready to go and see if people were sick? And if you meant he wasn't ready to go into a zombie apocalypse...who ever is?



Arthas arrogantly waved his "I'm the Prince" stick around. Perhaps he should have explained what was going on instead of chucking a tantrum. Beforehand, Arthas was fairly calm, so you can't say he was distraught at the time.


Perhaps, but that was only because he was arrogant and emotional enough that simple goading would be enough to have him kill his people and race halfway around the world for revenge.Was he entirely at fault? No. Was he entirely innocent? Ahahahahaha hell no!


Yes. How dare he not be calm and accepting about his Price's sudden desire to kill an entire city with no explanation, or be upset that his order was disbanded. Damn that Uther, what a dick.

Jaina was not the prince of a Kingdom, she was also not the commanding officer, she was merely a helper sent by Dalaran. If the Kingdom ran amok with undead, nobody would blame her, so she had the leeway to think otherwise. She never had the weight of responsibility, when she finally had it and theramoore happened what did she do?

And it was a zombie plague, I can't believe you are actually bringing up this "argument". Are you for real? At this point you are writing whatever the crap you want just to enforce your own narrative. I am out.

[Rendark]

Not everyone was infected and there's this thing called quarantine. Maybe you heard about it as sensible countries went down hard on that idea recently. All Arthas had to do was lick everyone in their homes, to be extra safe one room per person and wait it out.

You o die and turn your head becomes a melon to the hammer. You don't turn? Well not infected, rescued out. And yes the army he had before he made such drastic decision was enough to enforce it.

No everyone was infected, and even if they weren't how the fuck are you going to LICK everyone in there homes. There was a demon going around with a army of the undead. Not much time for that.

[Ielenia]

Might have something to do with part of his soul still being on Azeroth...
the good/reasonable part that guided us on multiple occasions. (early WPL quest, Quel'Delar, Halls of Reflection, Ashbringer questline)

It's possible, but I just find it weird that the Light only saved the "bad" aspects of Uther, while the "good" aspects of him remained on Azeroth.

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He doesnt deserve a redemption story..

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The moment we saw is basically a flashback from when we killed arthas in wrath. Its not like he waited all these years up until 2020.

Edit: think I quoted the wrong thing.

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Meant this one. Its only created as of late.. but is meant as if it happenr then.

Oh, no, I don't mean that it happened during the N'Zoth thing. I meant "expansions" as in, time passes, considering that the event I first quoted happened way back in WC3, before Arthas became the Lich King.

[Grazrug]

There shouldn't be any redemption for Arthas period. Devos and Uther did right to throw him into the Maw.

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No everyone was infected, and even if they weren't how the fuck are you going to LICK everyone in there homes. There was a demon going around with a army of the undead. Not much time for that.

We have an actual pandemic going on and still you don't see people getting killed ebcause of it. There was multiple ways to handle the situation but in his arrogance Arthas decided to kill the whole city. Not even trying other options. For these reasons Arthas deserves to burn in the Maw for all eternity.

[Alanar]

It's possible, but I just find it weird that the Light only saved the "bad" aspects of Uther, while the "good" aspects of him remained on Azeroth.

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Oh, no, I don't mean that it happened during the N'Zoth thing. I meant "expansions" as in, time passes, considering that the event I first quoted happened way back in WC3, before Arthas became the Lich King.

My bad then, read it the wrong way.

On topic:
Since so many people talk about redemption.. idk why, but if you do, you HAVE to consider sylvanas as well.. since she is seriously the same. It makes zero sense imo.

[Mic_128]

She never had the weight of responsibility, when she finally had it and theramoore happened what did she do?

Ruled successfully for about seven years, was well known and respected for her skilled leadership and diplomacy before having her city bombed by a power-hungry warmonger.

And it was a zombie plague, I can't believe you are actually bringing up this "argument". Are you for real?

Yes. They weren't actively engaged with the undead - there wasn't any in sight. He could have spared the time to explain what was going on - You know, to keep the powerful Paladin and his knights on his side - instead of giving them an order which with what Uther knew seemed utterly mad, and telling them to piss off when they understandably refused.

[Varitok]

Stratholme was not the right choice. You are killing even non infected people during it. I still believe he made a tough decision and it was a no win scenario but people are acting like you walked in and everyone was already zombies, which is patently false. I guess people are just edgy internet kids nowadays though.

[Lazuli]

I wouldn't say he was full on bad, but I certainly wouldn't have purged stratholme , then that probably would have backfired on me. I'd say he made the "right" choice even if its questionable and fucked up, knowing how powerful and contagious the plague is. He was either extremely strong willed and knew the ramifications of it or just crazy already. This is why I love the arthas story, its pretty much left up to you and your moral compass to decide whether he's good or evil, would you even have the will to do what he did if it was 100% the right choice? Either way this is why he's the best character in WoW.

I think he deserves redemption, or at the very least he should be allowed to recognize the error of his ways and drift off into eternal sleep. The idea of endless torture is just hilariously comical to me..

Stratholme was not the right choice. You are killing even non infected people during it. I still believe he made a tough decision and it was a no win scenario but people are acting like you walked in and everyone was already zombies, which is patently false. I guess people are just edgy internet kids nowadays though.

yup and either way they were all fucked, so lose/lose

[Ardenaso]

if you want to call him an arrogant spoiled prince then he should be in Revendreth, not the Maw. as for the Culling of Strath, that was a "dammed if you do, dammed if you don't" scenario - the entire city was doomed the moment the grain shipment arrived.

that's exactly the point of Afterlives: Bastion - Arthas was bypassed the trial of the Arbiter and Uther and Devos simply yeeted Arthas down

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not seen in the games

also contrary to popular belief this isn't new, it was also seen in Classic but I only knew about it when Abelhawk pointed it out

[Starfals]

He was just a spoiled kid/teen/young guy. Being a prince and having so much power can do that to people. Look at how most rich kids act in 2020. Watch a few videos. That doesnt mean they are evil. They just deserve a huge slap on the butt, just as much as Arthas deserved. His father was too soft.

Also, Strath was the right thing to do. Otherwise the dead would have went out and killed even more eventually. Its a shame how Arthas did not explain it well enough to Uther, but thats the story. I guess after being forced to kill his own people, he wanted badly to take revenge on the dreadlord, so he took the sword. As he said - pay any price to get revenge. Being revengeful doesnt always mean you are evil either. It means a bad thing has happened to you and you just want to return the favor back. Its more of a justice thing. Retribution.

He did betray his own people and alliance in the end tho.

[Hekazi]

There shouldn't be any redemption for Arthas period. Devos and Uther did right to throw him into the Maw.

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We have an actual pandemic going on and still you don't see people getting killed ebcause of it. There was multiple ways to handle the situation but in his arrogance Arthas decided to kill the whole city. Not even trying other options. For these reasons Arthas deserves to burn in the Maw for all eternity.

We will throw you in the Maw and take back Arthas, if he hasn''t made of the Maw his kingdom that is and created ICC 2.0

[Ardenaso]

They didn't have the manpower to quarantine because Arthas stripped the Silver Hand of all its power and dismissed them. Uther had brought the full strength of the order in Lordaeron to Stratholme. The City only has the one entrance and exit it would be easy to control the flow in and out with the entire Silver Hand helping.

Killing everyone didn't even work they just rose again after Arthas left so the culling was entirely pointless.

you wouldn't think at least someone would try to sail away? Stratholme is a large harbor city

[Starfals]

There shouldn't be any redemption for Arthas period. Devos and Uther did right to throw him into the Maw.

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We have an actual pandemic going on and still you don't see people getting killed ebcause of it. There was multiple ways to handle the situation but in his arrogance Arthas decided to kill the whole city. Not even trying other options. For these reasons Arthas deserves to burn in the Maw for all eternity.

Yeah, but they dont know a lot about plagues in the Warcraft lore. Also medieval times, not 2020 in the Warcraft time period.. no blood tests and all. In their mind if half of the people are sick, then all of them are sick. Same happened in Europe in our past. Sure, for 2020 its wrong and bad but for 1500? Nah, kill them all is more logical. U dont wanna risk it. He was too young and rushing tho, as a prince. Im sure he could have waited or did other things as you even point out. But also try to imagine the 1500 year.

[Ardenaso]

The thing is Uther never saw what happened in Brill, Andorhal, and Hearthglen; he never saw villagers turning into Zombies. And that, Arthas should have properly assessed the whole context

The best solution was instead of "just fucking do it Uther" was "why don't you see it for yourself and see if you still have other ways". Uther and the Silverhand could do some supportive manpower while Arthas does the purging, and Jaina teleports back to the Kirin Tor ambassador and to initiate a quarantine like the said ambassador proposed to Terenas

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Not really what? What sense does that make lol, I said I find it funny, if you don't that's your business no need to quote a blatant statement??

It makes just as much sense as you popping into the thread to contribute nothing beyond "lol, people are dying of a pandemic IRL and it is funny to see people justify a fictional character taking extreme actions against a fictional issue".

Sorry that I don't share your sense of humor when it comes to a deadly pandemic, I'm not big on laughing at hundreds of thousands people dying from a virus. That you're surprised I took offense at your joke is quite confusing to me, but then again I don't find humor in millions of people suffering.

[Ielenia]

My bad then, read it the wrong way.

On topic:
Since so many people talk about redemption.. idk why, but if you do, you HAVE to consider sylvanas as well.. since she is seriously the same. It makes zero sense imo.

Not really, in my opinion.

Was Arthas an arrogant, prideful ass before Frostmourne? Yeah, he was. But was he genocidal, bent on slaying the living and turning him into his undead? No, he was not. Arthas' personality underwent a severe dark for the dark after claiming Frostmourne and having his mind influenced by Ner'zhul's essence within the Helm of Domination.

Sylvanas, as far as we have been shown to us, has acted entirely on her own free will. So far, nothing, no outside force has been shown to be influencing her actions other than her own self.

[Alanar]

Not really, in my opinion.

Was Arthas an arrogant, prideful ass before Frostmourne? Yeah, he was. But was he genocidal, bent on slaying the living and turning him into his undead? No, he was not. Arthas' personality underwent a severe dark for the dark after claiming Frostmourne and having his mind influenced by Ner'zhul's essence within the Helm of Domination.

Sylvanas, as far as we have been shown to us, has acted entirely on her own free will. So far, nothing, no outside force has been shown to be influencing her actions other than her own self.

Uhm...right.. so no.

Arthas, yes he was a spoilled brat, but still he did it all 9n hes own doing. Doesnt matter if nerzuhl whispered to him to get to the throne. Killing every damn human etc is all hes own. The helm has nothing to do with this btw.. he only achieved this at the end of war3.

Sylvanas.. here we go. Sylvanas has been getting power over the coarse of multiple expansions without us knowing by the jailer. So no she is the one who is NOT doing things on her own. Without the jailers powers.. yea she would have been still that dark ranger with no super special powers. Without killing no powers.. so yea, she is not mind controlled(neither was arthas) thats the jailers deal so free will? Uh.. debateable.

[Rendark]

We have an actual pandemic going on and still you don't see people getting killed ebcause of it. There was multiple ways to handle the situation but in his arrogance Arthas decided to kill the whole city. Not even trying other options. For these reasons Arthas deserves to burn in the Maw for all eternity.

We are talking about a fake fantasy that is nowhere near on the same level as we are in 2020. Yes we have a pandemic going on right now but it doesn't turn people into zombie and not everyone on earth has it. Stay at home orders will not work on a city where the people are becoming undead slaves and a demon is running around fucking shit up. It was kill everyone in the city or sit back and let them all become zombies.

[Lei]

1) I did think about what it requires, so if doing the right thing is hard... just kill everyone?

2) Cities have prisons, put infected people there. Send a rider out to get food. Jaina could've summoned food as a mage or teleported goods.

How do you identify the infected people?