Arthas - Redemption Or Villain Story

[Scrysis]

He could simply be in a cell in Torghast and be used for Uther's story

My favourite option? Jailer betraying Sylvanas and replacing her with Arthas, who proceeds to stab her in the back with a new Frostmourne and throw her off of Torghast. Then dies as penultimate raid boss.

Yes I hate her THAT much

No, no, that is too good for Sylvanas.

It needs to be that she tricks the Jailer and us into fighting. And then, when we defeat the Jailer, she steps into his place, thinking that she'll have ultimate power. But then she finds out that the Jailer's power is from the Jailer himself and not his position, and that she really just stepped and locked herself into his prison. So now she realizes that she fucked up by her own actions, powerless now that he's gone, and trapped in a never-ending hell of her own making.

And then a better Arthas gives her a middle finger as he walks away with us to his new afterlife having redeemed himself over the course of the xpac.

[MrLachyG]

I think we should maybe get a small reference to him after we fix the Shadowlands. He goes to Revendreth and we find out as such but that’s it. His story is fine, doesn’t need more than that to be fully wrapped up

[Khallid]

Yeah? Lmao it's extremely predictable that Sargeras will help us against the Void Lords.

Also Sargeras is neither dead nor did his story end 10 years ago.

Is this so hard to understand? If they want to bring Arthas back into the spotlight after so long, it wouldn't be as a villain again (because then what's the point of revisiting a finished character in the first place), just like how Illidan wasn't brough back as a villain in Legion.

I just think you're being too narrow-minded.

You can make good arguments about why you expect the story to go with the redemption route. You may also be right about it. But to say that there is only one possibility is simply not convincing. It's like saying that narrative twists don't exist. Storywriters can do whatever the hell they want. The story they want to tell may not be the one you want to see.

A character "worthy of redemption" can simply get fucked for the sake of tragedy. I can imagine at least half a dozen ways to go about it. There is no single "correct" narrative outcome.

[Varodoc]

I just think you're being too narrow-minded.

You can make good arguments about why you expect the story to go with the redemption route. You may also be right about it. But to say that there is only one possibility is simply not convincing. It's like saying that narrative twists don't exist. Storywriters can do whatever the hell they want. The story they want to tell may not be the one you want to see.

A character "worthy of redemption" can simply get fucked for the sake of tragedy. I can imagine at least half a dozen ways to go about it. There is no single "correct" narrative outcome.

Ok, but this thread is asking either Villain or Redemption, and I explained why it's one and not the other.

[Khallid]

Ok, but this thread is asking either Villain or Redemption, and I explained why it's one and not the other.

Fair enough. I got too focused on one detail and lost focus. I apologize.

[Jujudrood]

Arthas was a self-righteous dick, but he was "guided by the light" which typically means "good guy" in WoW.
Then, Frostmourne and the helm happened, and he became a complete dick.
He wasn't always "bad", per se, just a misguided douche turned into laser focused villain.

Said it before, I'll say it again.
We will roflstomp the Jailer, someone will need to keep the worst of the worst in check, enter Arthas, he who redeems himself by way of an eternity of playing prison guard.
If you think Blizz is above a rehash of Legion/Illidan, well, you'd be wrong.
Arthas = Illidan 2.0.
Redeemed.
And every fan everywhere groans in frustration.

[guisadop]

I voted redemption but that's not exactly what I want, it's just that I think it was pretty clear that he isn't a villain anymore. I'd like to see more a conclusion/epilogue to his story, after the darkness and all. I don't want him to be absolved of everything he did, but I think he already regret/saw how bad it was when the helm of dominion was taken from him. I also think he was somewhat justified with his actions in the beginning, but that got him into some pretty serious points of no return

[Klueade]

I voted redemption but that's not exactly what I want, it's just that I think it was pretty clear that he isn't a villain anymore. I'd like to see more a conclusion/epilogue to his story, after the darkness and all. I don't want him to be absolved of everything he did, but I think he already regret/saw how bad it was when the helm of dominion was taken from him. I also think he was somewhat justified with his actions in the beginning, but that got him into some pretty serious points of no return

I agree with that. I don't exactly want a redemption either because I'd still want him to have enemies. I guess everyone has enemies but you know.

[Ersula]

I still don't think Arthas is going to show up in Shadowlands, because compared to Kel'thuzad, the short film he was in wouldn't have used exclusively recycled dialog from ICC.

But if he does, I think it would be fantastic if even if we kill Sylvanas, (her souls would just...go to the shadowlands) she just drags Arthas into the Maw with her, because the only bit of consistent characterization for Sylvie is that she loves to dominate blonde twinks.

[Swnem]

Redemption.

We already defeated him and he has no more frostmourne or helm.

What's he gonna do? Tickle us?

Redemptions in WoW are more like neutrality than good.

[Ersula]

Redemptions in WoW are more like neutrality than good.

What Redemptions in wow? Grommash Hellscream? Redemption is a horribly overused term in media analysis. Darth Vader's story in Star Wars was not a redemption story until the prequels came into existence. In A New Hope, Luke is the Protagonist, not his father. The entire point of Darth Vader is for Luke to forgive him. It's a forgiveness story. Only within the lens of the prequels does Anakin's story become a redemption story, and Grom's story resembles that one.

A lot of people call Illidan's story a redemption arc but that's wrong. Redemption is when a character who does bad things has a change of heart & decides to do good things. That's not Illidan's story: Illidan has a hero's arc in retrospect. He never has a moral change, but instead he has been resolute the entire time & does bad things in order to acomplish a greater goal. Anything bad Illidan did was in order to defeat the Legion & he succeeds. Illidan's story is not a redemption arc, it's a "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" story.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Can we maybe thread the needle and say he gets closure and his intended reward (instead of the maw that Uther sent him to) without turning him into a holy boy again?

[Muggish]

It's been datamined that the Jailor has a name, which means that Jailor is a title and most likely a position. I think Arthas will have a similar treatment as Illidan did and will be brought back for the expansion and then ultimately serve as a Jailor, just this time its very literal. Considering that the last of Arthas' humanity while he was the Lich King held the scourge at bay, and allowed him to serve as the jailor of the damned.

We will kill the Jailor as the final boss of the expansion, as Blizz have said, and then someone will play the "There must always be a Jailor!" card, and Arthas will serve as the new jailor, keeping all of the irredeemable souls in the Maw, keeping both the Shadowlands and the living realm safe. This would allow Blizz to bring him back, but gives a tidy ending to his story at the end of it so that it doesn't cheapen his death. He will stay dead, and in death will serve a good purpose and find his redemption.

[matrix123mko]

I would like him to stay in Shadowlands. If anything, he can be forgiven and allowed to leave Maw.

[qwerty123456]

He could simply be in a cell in Torghast and be used for Uther's story

My favourite option? Jailer betraying Sylvanas and replacing her with Arthas, who proceeds to stab her in the back with a new Frostmourne and throw her off of Torghast. Then dies as penultimate raid boss.

Yes I hate her THAT much

Nah Sylvanas needs to get her immortality. Have Arthas/jailer cut her head off and permanently bind her soul to her skull then toss it down an outhouse hole.

[DemonHunter18]

Gotta be honest, kinda sick of them dragging big lore characters out of their graves and dangling them in front of our faces. Arthas's story was done, let it end where it naturally should.

But then again this is Blizzard we're talking about. Their recent writing has been inexcusable garbage.

This.

Arthas should stay as a villain without redeeming garbage.

But it's Blizzard and their writing is 1 class garbage IMO and is very Shounen like lately LOL.

[ablock87]

They already said in multiple interviews they're mostly not touching him. At most we'll probably get a few dialogues, but don't expect major storylines with him.

Yeah they also said Grom Hellscream would be the final boss in WoD.

[Gurahk]

Yeah they also said Grom Hellscream would be the final boss in WoD.

Which was a direct contradiction to their interviews later, which said the final boss wouldn't be an orc.
So unless they state otherwise, they're not gonna do much with Arthas.

[Armourboy]

It should be neither imo. He should be used as a tool to help us in the Shadowlands ( information wise ) and in return he will begin what should have been his real path in the Shadowlands.

No need to make him a hero or a villain. He would just exist as all other souls do.

[Sansnom]

But he has no intrinsic power. It's all in the Helm and Sword

No. But he was the type "The end justify the means". He was willing to kill every citizens in Stratholme to stop the plague. He burned his own ships and lied to his own soldiers in his quest for the Frostmourn. He killed his own soldiers to raised them as undead and cut his heart out to remove the last vestige of humanity in him.