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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Goodness, what a fresh new topic. Certainly not yet another "I hate Baine and any Horde character that doesn't want to bathe in Alliance blood, kill them all slowly" thread. Even if that wasn't OP's intention, that's what the usual suspects will turn this into.
    God what a great strawman from an Alliance fanboy who hates the Horde.

    Surely a Horde hating Alliance Fanboy knows who is best to lead the Horde.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    Baine is fine the horde needs a leader that stands for peace.

    It has plenty of other leaders to fill the role of hot head or war like
    its one thing to stand for peace,and another to completly time and time again betray your faction,and do things that could easily lead to the anihilation of the faction you want to be peaceful,i guess baine things if horde are all dead than peace will exist LOL

    no troll...fixing baine by killing him is the best option at this point

    and im an aliance main btw

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmalak View Post
    Take his balls out of Anduin's purse and give them back, maybe? Characters like him *should* be to Warcraft what characters like Ned Stark were to GoT. Hilariously naive, easily duped, and quickly deposed because their blind optimism and sense of nobility and honor flies in the face of a world under constant threat of annihilation on top of perpetual war between the worlds natural denizens and the literal aliens that tried to take it over (orcs vs humans). In a way, he doesn't need to be fixed. He just needs to fail because keeping him and Anduin as butt bros guts the entire core of what the franchise was originally about.

    Ned Starks are admirable characters. But watching them struggle and fail is what keeps you drawn to them. If they simply get their way and keep the peace, then what exactly is the point of the game? Do we just keep ramping up villains and asspulling new threats greater than the Legion out of thin air? I understand some people are interested in the upcoming conflict between Light and Void, but personally I find it completely uninteresting. I started WoW to be a soldier of the Horde to crush the Alliance, not become part of the Azeroth Avengers saving the world every other month from some random joke of a villain destined to fail at whatever evil scheme they've put into motion.
    This is a very nice insight, thanks, I completelly agree.

  4. #24
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Title says it all, and before we get inundated with "Lol Kill them or write them out of the story entirely", this thread is for actual ideas on what Blizz could do to make you think "Yeah this character is okay" even if you don't fall in love with them cause of how much baggage they have.

    Voss, Baine, Thrall, etc... lots of characters on the Horde atm are controversial to say the least.

    How could Blizz improve the Horde's gutted roster?

    So are you going to actually list anything that you think is "wrong" with Baine... or Voss? ...or Thrall?


    This vague ass "how do we fix it" topic does nothing to invite factual ideas.


    Perhaps, and this is just a suggestion, you should provide some examples as to why you think the characters are "broken" and some suggestions as to what "could" be done?


    For an OP that is asking for factual ideas to supposedly invite genuine discussion, what a piss poor job trying to achieve that in the literal first post.

  5. #25
    For Thrall repower him and start giving him some awesome moments showing he can keep up with the Alliance.

    Voss needs alot of characterization.

    Baine needs a retcon of his numerous betrayals of the Horde.

    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    So are you going to actually list anything that you think is "wrong" with Baine... or Voss? ...or Thrall?


    This vague ass "how do we fix it" topic does nothing to invite factual ideas.


    Perhaps, and this is just a suggestion, you should provide some examples as to why you think the characters are "broken" and some suggestions as to what "could" be done?


    For an OP that is asking for factual ideas to supposedly invite genuine discussion, what a piss poor job trying to achieve that in the literal first post.
    We've spoken many times about their issues.

  6. #26
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gann Stonespire View Post
    When has Baine done anything great for the Horde, even recruiting the Highmountain was done out of fear of Sylvanas?
    He still closed the deal and brought a fresh force of powerful Highmountain warrior-braves and specialists into the Horde's ranks. He also oversaw much of the diplomatic and strategic actions in the Isle of Zandalar, and through his actions played a large part in revealing Sylvanas' ultimate duplicity, allowing the Horde to finally seal the schism that was growing exponentially in its ranks before the damage couldn't be undone. Baine gets (and deserves) a lot of shit, as I said previously, but I think it's rather hyperbolic to claim he's never done *anything* of worth.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  7. #27
    Baine cant be fixéd.
    He is either a guy that is a betrayer to the Horde, or he is so weak that he needs to be saved because somebody captured him.
    If we ever get a Warchief again after this council phase i am sure that Baine is the one that will backstab him in the first possible moment.
    Last edited by tromage2; 2020-09-01 at 08:51 PM.

  8. #28
    Fixing Baine is easy. Have him get mad. Nothing earth shattering, not "bringing the Horde to the nrink of war" mad, but piss him off. Have some Alliance dude, I dunno, maybe Genn or Turalyon, say or do something that pisses Baine right the fuck off, and then realize what happens when you piss off a 9 foot tall mountain of muscle, as Baine wipes the floor with them.

    Baine needs some fire. Some brass. He can still be a peaceful guy that doesn't want war, but show that he's not about to be walked all over, and show that people should be frickin' terrified of giant cow people.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    He still closed the deal and brought a fresh force of powerful Highmountain warrior-braves and specialists into the Horde's ranks. He also oversaw much of the diplomatic and strategic actions in the Isle of Zandalar, and through his actions played a large part in revealing Sylvanas' ultimate duplicity, allowing the Horde to finally seal the schism that was growing exponentially in its ranks before the damage couldn't be undone. Baine gets (and deserves) a lot of shit, as I said previously, but I think it's rather hyperbolic to claim he's never done *anything* of worth.
    Rokhan saw the diplomatic and strategic actions in the isle of Zandalar, Baine did nothing but dishonor Rastakahn at the funeral.

  10. #30
    The Patient
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    I don’t understand why people dislike Baine and call him weak. The dude stood up for what he believed in and risked his life and his entire people to fight against the tyranny of Sylvanas when she went full Lich Queen trying to remove the free will of Derek Proudmoore. He’s a good character, but clearly not edgelord enough for some people.

  11. #31
    The Lightbringer Nathreim's Avatar
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    Voss should be replaced by any of the long time forsaken cast Belmont, Hercular, or Faranell. Or all three could be a triumvirate Belmont leads the military, Hercular leads the Forsaken's necromancers in charge of repopulating, and Faranell leads the Apothecaries in charge of cleansing UC and managing the Blight.

    Until Thrall returns to how he was in Warcraft 3 I dont want to see him. He has somehow become a weaker pathetic character since Cata. We need strong Orc heroes again and we have none now if Shadowlands does have a 10 year time skip after then we need to introduce a cast of new Orc leaders.

    Baine cant be fixed he is a traitor. Im not even talking about his betrayal in BFA but his betrayal of his own people in Cata. Exiling his own people who wanted to fight back against the Alliance during a war is beyond stupid. He puts his own sensibilities over the good of his people he is a bad leader.

    Also this Horde council idea is trash the Horde should not be the Alliance. Somehow we have gone from the Alliance having councils and the Horde having a Warchief to the opposite. I know blizz killed off everyone who would be popular as Warchief but thats not an excuse for terrible writing.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Holybeatdown View Post
    I don’t understand why people dislike Baine and call him weak. The dude stood up for what he believed in and risked his life and his entire people to fight against the tyranny of Sylvanas when she went full Lich Queen trying to remove the free will of Derek Proudmoore. He’s a good character, but clearly not edgelord enough for some people.
    LOL, he stood up for the Alliance and didn't care about Sylvanas blighting tauren or brainwashing the other guy with Derek.

    He breaks Horde oaths to exile innocent tauren who've helped him in the past for defending against Alliance invaders.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathreim View Post
    Somehow we have gone from the Alliance having councils and the Horde having a Warchief to the opposite.
    The reason for that is simple, and BfA showed it. Danuser and pals want to write GoT fanfiction, with squabbling factions. With a Warchief, no one else matters. They have little interest in writing the Alliance and it shows. Hence the Horde Council so they can have tons of time on the arguments and drama, while Alliance gets the Blue Warchief. Since Metzen isn't around to remind them to at least pretend to give a damn about the Alliance for business reasons, we get a soyboy in Anduin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  14. #34
    Oh another "I hate Baine" thread. How exciting. Is it... oh yes, it is Tuesday.

    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    So are you going to actually list anything that you think is "wrong" with Baine... or Voss? ...or Thrall?
    Allow me to explain: Basically it boils down to the OP and about 90% of this forums Horde posters considering the Horde dead when it does not crave Alliance blood every waking moment and dreams of slaughtering civilians at night.
    They tasted blood with Sylvanas at the helm and simply refuse to accept that this was always a temporary thing with the Horde going back to it's "noble savage" state again. Now the people they designate responsible for "betraying" Sylvanas are their archenemies and every few days we have a thread like this where they can gather and pour out their hatred.

    As for fixing these people. I would first of all make them rescind the order to shops, demanding them to trade with Loyalists. Then I would make them realize that there is still massive amounts of loyalists in the Horde and have those detained and questioned, letting people that willingly followed Sylvanas till the end run around free is ridiculous and suicidal.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Oh another "I hate Baine" thread. How exciting. Is it... oh yes, it is Tuesday.



    Allow me to explain: Basically it boils down to the OP and about 90% of this forums Horde posters considering the Horde dead when it does not crave Alliance blood every waking moment and dreams of slaughtering civilians at night.
    They tasted blood with Sylvanas at the helm and simply refuse to accept that this was always a temporary thing with the Horde going back to it's "noble savage" state again. Now the people they designate responsible for "betraying" Sylvanas are their archenemies and every few days we have a thread like this where they can gather and pour out their hatred.

    As for fixing these people. I would first of all make them rescind the order to shops, demanding them to trade with Loyalists. Then I would make them realize that there is still massive amounts of loyalists in the Horde and have those detained and questioned, letting people that willingly followed Sylvanas till the end run around free is ridiculous and suicidal.
    Oh look another strawman from an Alliance fanboy angry that the Horde isn't happy with a leader that exiles his own people for defending against the enemy in a war.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    The reason for that is simple, and BfA showed it. Danuser and pals want to write GoT fanfiction, with squabbling factions. With a Warchief, no one else matters. They have little interest in writing the Alliance and it shows. Hence the Horde Council so they can have tons of time on the arguments and drama, while Alliance gets the Blue Warchief. Since Metzen isn't around to remind them to at least pretend to give a damn about the Alliance for business reasons, we get a soyboy in Anduin.
    And more offtopic Alliance whining of "Horde Bias because the Horde exists."

  16. #36
    there is wanting peace and then there is Baine's version of wanting peace(slaves to the alliance)
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Gann Stonespire View Post
    He was already castrated in Tides of War.

    This was him before he was turned into a steer.

    I can't beleive it is baine. jesus he actually sound like someone who will hurt the alliance here .


    *sigh* Too bad we got an alliance shilling burger instead.

  18. #38
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gann Stonespire View Post
    Rokhan saw the diplomatic and strategic actions in the isle of Zandalar, Baine did nothing but dishonor Rastakahn at the funeral.
    Rokhan oversaw ground operations in Nazmir, he didn't really appear anywhere else of note. As for Rastakhan's funeral, Baine did nothing of the sort - he simply empathized with the loss of Talanji's father as he had experience in that regard, and upbraided Nathanos for trying to use Talanji's grief as a weapon. If anything Nathanos dishonored Rastakhan's memory by trying to use his death as a bargaining chip, not that Nathanos had any true empathy or sympathy to speak of for Talanji.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-09-02 at 02:54 AM.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  19. #39
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Easy he gets killed off in his sleep and replaced by that hardcore AU version from war crimes.

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer
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    For Baine you will need a retcon for the whole exiling his people bit at cata for fighting back. Maybe imply that those exiled were consorting with twilight hammer people/ attacking actual civilians.
    BFA was bad writing all around and pissed on so many chars backstory. The sooner we move on from this expac the better

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