The Machine of Death

[deenman]

Yes Helya is working with the Jailer. No shit. What I’m saying is maybe her death allowed her spirit to break free from where Odyn trapped her and then she broke the Machine of Death. Hell the soul cage could’ve been a taunt to Odyn to send people after her, because she knew her defeat would enable her escape

lol wait wait,helya WANTED to be killed?uhm...couldnt she...off herself?cmon...for all we know it broke when the legion stole the armor and the effects where felt later in our world because of different time flows or something,or the jailer did it himself

[TickTickTick]

I think we have thrown a lot of wrenches into the gears and it's more of "a straw that broke the camel's back" than just one incident. Arguably, a lot of things have been part of the dismantling of the machine of death, but it might be Arthas damnation was a a very important one.

Exactly what I was thinking. It's not one single act that did it, it's a series of events that kept on weakening Shadowlands while simultaneously empowering the Maw, with shattering of the Helm being the final act that cracked the veil wide open.

I'm gonna repeat what I said in another thread: I think destroying Frostmourne is what started it all. A blade infused with Maw magic able to capture souls, suddenly destroyed, resulting in countless number of damned souls being released near the very veil, basically acting as a "soul bomb", I can see something like that making a crack in Shadowlands foundations and weakening the Arbiter. It's safe to assume that all these souls went straight into the Maw. Could be even pre-planned by the Jailer.

Then we have Sylvanas killing herself shortly after Arthas' death. We still don't know how she came into contact with the Jailer, but I guess it's either her soul just being sucked into the stream of souls travelling out of Frostmourne to the Maw, or her soul already being damned by Arthas capturing it before he made her a banshee, resulting in going to the Maw by default. Either way, he sensed some power in her and decided to use her to further his plan.

Then we have other events after, like Legion invasion and their use of soul furnaces, Helya's lantern getting shattered, another large amount of souls going to Shadowlands at the same time after Teldrassil destruction, and eventually shattering of the Helm of Domination being that final straw. I don't think the shattering would break the veil wide open in other circumstances, but both the Jailer and Sylvanas knew the Shadowlands are weak enough to do it, that's why she just abandoned the Horde and ventured to Icecrown.

Could also be that objects crafted in Shadowlands, like Frostmourne, the Helm and the Lantern, can affect the Shadowlands in a bad way when destroyed in the living realm.

But yeah, I think the Jailer went for a long-con, weakening the Shadowlands and the Arbiter bit after bit, so that the covenants don't feel like something's going on, going as far as seeing the drought as, although not good, something that's not a reason to worry about.

[MrLachyG]

lol wait wait,helya WANTED to be killed?uhm...couldnt she...off herself?cmon...for all we know it broke when the legion stole the armor and the effects where felt later in our world because of different time flows or something,or the jailer did it himself

yeah technically she did. she knew the only way to escape from Odyn's prison was to be "killed" and knew she would be able to bring herself back. Odyn, who was baited into sending people to kill her, would assume she was dead dead and wouldn't bother to monitor her realm. Indeed the first thing he did was piss off to Ulduar to go hang with his bretheren.

this is all my speculation of course, but it is plausible. the whole fake out dying trope has been around for ages and has been used repeatedly in the past

[Thage]

Uther and Devos bypassing the system didn't break it, but I'd put money on it being what gave the Jailer the idea to break it in the first place.

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Its been broken longer than we think. Sylvanas should not have gone to the Maw after her suicide at Icecrown she was no wear near the level Kael'thas at that point.

I think that problems have been around for a lot longer getting worse and worse until it finally completely broke down.

Sylvanas being hijacked by the Jailer isn't what broke the machine, though. Things weren't broken until every soul that died began bypassing the Arbiter. That happened during the events of Legion, according to Ion, which heavily suggests that us killing Helya and freeing her of her imprisonment had something to do with it.

[Newname1234567890]

I sort of hope the machine broke because of something unrelated to us. Azeroth influences way to much of the Warcraft cosmos as is.

Also do we know if the machine breaking is what caused the Arbiter to go into a coma or was it the other way?

[Nerovar]

Kyrians? Arbiter? Devos? Machine of Death? Last time I checked, the Shadowlands were a grey dimension of our world where tortured spirits reside.

[Lord Pebbleton]

My first guess would be that demons losing their insta respawn started a massive chain reaction in Shadowlands. But I don't know enough lore to be sure that demon souls have anything to do with Shadowlands so idk.

[MrLachyG]

Kyrians? Arbiter? Devos? Machine of Death? Last time I checked, the Shadowlands were a grey dimension of our world where tortured spirits reside.

oh boy have I got news for you....

[enigma77]

My first guess would be that demons losing their insta respawn started a massive chain reaction in Shadowlands. But I don't know enough lore to be sure that demon souls have anything to do with Shadowlands so idk.

They don't. Demons go to the Nether when they die, their native realm before eventually being reborn.

Sargeras merely speed up that process by siphoning the energy of Argus, the world soul of Argus, the planet.

[Lord Pebbleton]

They don't. Demons go to the Nether when they die, their native realm before eventually being reborn.

Sargeras merely speed up that process by siphoning the energy of Argus, the world soul of Argus, the planet.

Alright, so I was remembering right. It's been a while

[Good ol Stroggylos]

Machine of death breaking is most probs an inside job.

Sylvanas went to the maw after her suicide due to her soul being sucked by the frostmourne at the time of her first death.
And most probably that's why she was so anxious by what she experienced there and by the prospect that actually all the undead that had a link with the frostmourne or the lk would also end up in the maw. Same with the dead elfs back from scourge invasions.

(not a sylv fanboy just saying that it makes sense)

[Traveler Voltin]

Machine of death breaking is most probs an inside job.

Sylvanas went to the maw after her suicide due to her soul being sucked by the frostmourne at the time of her first death.
And most probably that's why she was so anxious by what she experienced there and by the prospect that actually all the undead that had a link with the frostmourne or the lk would also end up in the maw. Same with the dead elfs back from scourge invasions.

(not a sylv fanboy just saying that it makes sense)

her soul was never taken. she saw a peaceful afterlife before she became a banshee.

[Quaade]

it was broken during Legion but after Ysera's death. possible theories are when Genn smashed that cage thing that Helya gave Sylvanas, or when we defeated Helya in ToV and Odyn was freed. who knows really.

The first literarily makes the villains dumber as either the Jailer only found out by accident that "whoops, it did that?" Or he willingly gave away an item on the Xanatos Roulette chance than Genn would be in a position to break it. That Sylvanas would fail is a given as she always fails, instead of breaking it themselves or giving it to her if Gods was due to a spell unable to do so. And if she was unable to do it because she was undead I'm sure she could find some random living orc and order him to throw lamp to the ground as hard as he could.

It's the dumbest and most convoluted plan I've ever heard of and it would elevate it to Xanatos Roulette status.

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Machine of death breaking is most probs an inside job.

Sylvanas went to the maw after her suicide due to her soul being sucked by the frostmourne at the time of her first death.
And most probably that's why she was so anxious by what she experienced there and by the prospect that actually all the undead that had a link with the frostmourne or the lk would also end up in the maw. Same with the dead elfs back from scourge invasions.

(not a sylv fanboy just saying that it makes sense)

Except for the Covenant story again shows that she's utterly incompetent and dumber than dirt. Alexandros Mograine was an undead when he died he was killed after Frostmourne got into Azeroth and raised as a DK by Arthas. He was sorted into Maldraxxus despite being undead. So the whole "undead go to the Maw when they die," was another lie. Which at this point it's rather common for Sylvanas to be tricked by those she trusts, despite the fact that a clever schemer would trust no one, at most see them as having aligning goals.

She was tricked by Varimatras
She was tricked by Godfrey
She was tricked by the epitome of untrustworthiness Azshara, and she even assumed that she would do the thing that was part of the bargain and was like, "you do this!" "Of course." "OkAy, I tRuSt YoU!!!

Adding the Jailer to that list would be easily believable.

[Super Dickmann]

Thinking about Shadowlands in light of earlier continuity is a way to suffer brain damage. Don't try it. The hundreds of Uthers we've seen, as early as Legion, who were neither Bluther or non-existent on account of being Frostmourne are just one of the million examples, not withstanding the cardinal example that @Nerovar brings up.

I liked the WoW afterlife when it was vague and had that low-key existential horror to it that your default was hell if one of the major spiritual powers didn't call dibs on you. Sometimes less is more and characters that act on incomplete information are compelling in their own way. Shadowlands is elaborate and decently interesting in isolation, but it fucks with everything that came before and will come after in fundamental ways.

On-topic though and solely in an SL Context, we were already told it's in Legion - we know in Mists it was working since Garrosh went to Revendreth and he died then. We also know that Mueh'zala sabotaged Vol'jin at the Broken Shore and already got involved to put Sylvanas in charge. Presumably in this new version, her deal with Helya was about getting the lantern up there, not necessarily to break it but possibly because in its control over psychopomps like Odyn's val'kyr it'd help break the veil in some way. We've been told we'll learn about the deal after all.

[Good ol Stroggylos]

The first literarily makes the villains dumber as either the Jailer only found out by accident that "whoops, it did that?" Or he willingly gave away an item on the Xanatos Roulette chance than Genn would be in a position to break it. That Sylvanas would fail is a given as she always fails, instead of breaking it themselves or giving it to her if Gods was due to a spell unable to do so. And if she was unable to do it because she was undead I'm sure she could find some random living orc and order him to throw lamp to the ground as hard as he could.

It's the dumbest and most convoluted plan I've ever heard of and it would elevate it to Xanatos Roulette status.

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Except for the Covenant story again shows that she's utterly incompetent and dumber than dirt. Alexandros Mograine was an undead when he died he was killed after Frostmourne got into Azeroth and raised as a DK by Arthas. He was sorted into Maldraxxus despite being undead. So the whole "undead go to the Maw when they die," was another lie. Which at this point it's rather common for Sylvanas to be tricked by those she trusts, despite the fact that a clever schemer would trust no one, at most see them as having aligning goals.

She was tricked by Varimatras
She was tricked by Godfrey
She was tricked by the epitome of untrustworthiness Azshara, and she even assumed that she would do the thing that was part of the bargain and was like, "you do this!" "Of course." "OkAy, I tRuSt YoU!!!

Adding the Jailer to that list would be easily believable.

Thought Alexandros was killed by the Ashbringer (not Frostmourne) and was raised by KT (not the LK)

[Aucald]

Thought Alexandros was killed by the Ashbringer (not Frostmourne) and was raised by KT (not the LK)

Alexandros was killed by his own son, Renault, using the Ashbringer in a surprise and cowardly attack - a process that corrupted the Ashbringer and made it unable to be wielded by Renault, who left it with Alexandros' corpse. Kel'thuzad raised Alexandros as a Death Knight and made him one of the original Horsemen in Naxxramas. It's possible the Lich King also had a hand in his raising (given the fact the Lick King seems to grant the ability to raise Horsemen specifically), but Kel'Thuzad was definitely the one to enact it either way.

[Good ol Stroggylos]

Alexandros was killed by his own son, Renault, using the Ashbringer in a surprise and cowardly attack - a process that corrupted the Ashbringer and made it unable to be wielded by Renault, who left it with Alexandros' corpse. Kel'thuzad raised Alexandros as a Death Knight and made him one of the original Horsemen in Naxxramas. It's possible the Lich King also had a hand in his raising (given the fact the Lick King seems to grant the ability to raise Horsemen specifically), but Kel'Thuzad was definitely the one to enact it either way.

Y my thoughts exactly
I believe we have yet to see someone killed by frostmourne wondering around in realms outside the maw

[Darknessvamp]

The Machine of Death was just a cool line they threw out to make the expansion interesting. The Shadowlands system has always been arbitrary.

The Arbiter breaking was unrelated to anything happening on Azeroth, Argus will most likely get labeled as "the cause".

The Purpose is something we have no clue about which is somehow related to everything.

[Traveler Voltin]

The Machine of Death was just a cool line they threw out to make the expansion interesting. The Shadowlands system has always been arbitrary.

The Arbiter breaking was unrelated to anything happening on Azeroth, Argus will most likely get labeled as "the cause".

The Purpose is something we have no clue about which is somehow related to everything.

seeing as Ysera was the last soul before the drought started. i am going with no.

[Darknessvamp]

seeing as Ysera was the last soul before the drought started. i am going with no.

Dreamweaver: This spirit was within the last group to arrive before the drought began.

Not last soul.