Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Cinnamilk]

Incoming Daniel Prude coverage maybe? I only heard about it around 2am from a concerned friend, looking into it I'd be surprised if something like this doesn't go national.

Absolutely disappointing, but not surprising, that this shit happened in my city.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Remember when Charlottesville happened, and all the wingnuts here claimed it was self-defense because there was (somehow) irrefutable proof that his car was attacked first, and the court basically said "lmao no, go eat a dick, this is murder"?

Do we really want to go through the same cycle? Do you people not ever get tired of being wrong?

Nah, they'll argue for page after page that killing someone while in the act of committing a crime is perfectly okay when claiming self-defense when, by any legal standard, it isn't. Shit, Rittenhouse's mother will be lucky if she doesn't end up in the pookie for felony murder, too.

[josykay]

Federal AGs has little to do with state prosecutors thankfully.

They can (and have) told him to go fuck a pine-cone.

I know, but it shows a lot, that the Trump Administration so far appears to be supportive of Rittenhouse instead.
But I am not suprised. I am just waiting for Trump's goons choosing "Ain't I right" as a new campaign song.

[Belize]

I know, but it shows a lot, that the Trump Administration so far appears to be supportive of Rittenhouse instead.
But I am not suprised. I am just waiting for Trump's goons choosing "Ain't I right" as a new campaign song.

I mean, Trump supporting murderers isn't new.

Charlottesville was full of "very fine people". It's par for the course.

[josykay]

I mean, Trump supporting murderers isn't new.

Charlottesville was full of "very fine people". It's par for the course.

It actually got worse. He can't say it now. That would mean, that there are fine BLM or general lefist protesters, killing his campaign narrative.

[Endus]

If I charge at you while shouting, would you consider your life in danger ?

This is the central problem with your argument.

Because no; I would not. No reasonable person could. It's an insane and irrational kneejerk response that you would have to be murderously dangerous to believe.

You are describing Rittenhouse's motive for murder. That's not a legal defense. This is right up there with "I killed my wife because she was cheating on me" or "I shot that guy because he's Muslim and all Muslims are terrorists". It's an explanation of intent that does absolutely nothing to make the action justifiable.

And while you didn't say it, I want to address the "but he tried to get Rittenhouse's gun away from him, and that's a lethal threat" bullshit. The only way to consider that a lethal threat is if you consider "being armed" a lethal threat. Which means Rittenhouse is the one who initiated the lethal threat, by coming armed, which means everyone was justified in attacking him. It's a dumb argument and does not make any sense at all, so don't waste our time by trying it.

- - - Updated - - -

I know, but it shows a lot, that the Trump Administration so far appears to be supportive of Rittenhouse instead.
But I am not suprised. I am just waiting for Trump's goons choosing "Ain't I right" as a new campaign song.

If it makes you feel any better, the federal AG electing to not press charges doesn't trigger double indemnity. You should append a "for now" at the end of that sentence; the federal AG has chosen not to press charges for now. The moment there's a new AG and a new administration who feels differently, as long as the statute of limitations isn't up (is there even one, for murder?), those charges can be filed at any time. Even if Barr might take a pass on this (Rittenhouse crossed State lines, so it may be a federal issue), that doesn't mean Rittenhouse gets away with it forever. It just means Biden's AG files those charges in January, or the next candidate files them in January 2024, or whatever. The administration can't declare him innocent.

They could pardon Rittenhouse, of course. But that would require and admission of guilt; that Rittenhouse murdered two people.

[DingDongKing]

Incoming Daniel Prude coverage maybe? I only heard about it around 2am from a concerned friend, looking into it I'd be surprised if something like this doesn't go national.

Absolutely disappointing, but not surprising, that this shit happened in my city.

I saw it this morning. I was absolutely fucking horrified. Like at that point, if I was white I'd be sitting there in fear myself.

Is this how the country treats the mentally ill?

[Belize]

Is this how the country treats the mentally ill?

Depends. Sometimes they're elected as president too.

[Mayhem]

Depends. Sometimes they're elected as president too.

That's quite the range, from being naked in the street and killed by law enforcement to elected official with the most power in the country.

[Edge-]

Tthe "ANTIFA COMMANDER" has been arrested so everything is fine now.

https://www.wbay.com/2020/08/31/neen...ies-to-antifa/

Apparently, groups of white men armed with sticks, baseball bats, and helmets are more dangerous in the eyes of cops than groups of white men armed with guns which is...a bit weird but whatever.

A responding officer says he saw four individuals walking towards a protest with baseball bats. One man was wearing a metal helmet with goggles and military-style gear with multiple pouches, and was carrying an Antifa flag. When the officer pulled his squad car in front of the group, they ran away.

But why would the officer pull up?

Military-style gear is not illegal, and is worn by PATRIOTS on the right.
Metal helmets aren't illegal either, and are often warn by PATRIOTS on the alt-right.
The Antifa flag is no more violent, deadly, or threatening than the Confederate flag, which is often carried by PATRIOTS on the right.

So the only difference was they had bats, which are decidedly less dangerous and less of a threat than a rifle.

And the "ANTIFA COMMANDER" that got picked up was, unsurprisingly, a 23 year old dude who immediately went into the fetal position because of course this chucklefuck would.

I'm just impressed that law enforcement seem to take people armed with flags not waved during a civil war and with melee weapons and personal protection, while they are usually quite gracious towards heavily armed vigilante yahoo's with multiple firearms on their person.

Almost like there's this weird cultural/political double standard or some shit. WHICH IS WEIRD, RIGHT?!

[Soliloque]

I know, but it shows a lot, that the Trump Administration so far appears to be supportive of Rittenhouse instead.
But I am not suprised. I am just waiting for Trump's goons choosing "Ain't I right" as a new campaign song.

Isn't Rittenhohouse that kid who got chased down the streets, shot at, thrown down on the ground and then started shooting when one of his attackers tried grabbing his gun?
Seems like self-defence to me. Murder, sure, but in self defence.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, Trump supporting murderers isn't new.

Charlottesville was full of "very fine people". It's par for the course.

How is this hoax still alive?

[Edge-]

Isn't Rittenhohouse that kid who got chased down the streets, shot at, thrown down on the ground and then started shooting when one of his attackers tried grabbing his gun?
Seems like self-defence to me. Murder, sure, but in self defence.

Kid who was waving his gun around and point it at people per multiple witnesses, including a Daily Caller reporter, who was chased after by someone possibly acting in self defense against an unstable man with a gun posing a threat, who was shot in the head after throwing a bag at him and continuing to chase Rittenhouse. Rittenhouse then called his friend to tell him he'd killed someone, then ran to the street as others went to disarm an active shooter who had just shot someone multiple times, where he fell to the ground and killed one more person, shooting at a second person and missing them, and then shot a third person in the arm. All with a weapon he was not legally allowed to openly carry.

And then fled back across state lines to go home.

Yes, that guy.

How is this hoax still alive?

https://www.politifact.com/article/2...sides-remarks/

Because he said it?

[Soliloque]

And while you didn't say it, I want to address the "but he tried to get Rittenhouse's gun away from him, and that's a lethal threat" bullshit. The only way to consider that a lethal threat is if you consider "being armed" a lethal threat.

This doesn't make any sense. The act of attacking someone and trying to grab by force a lethal weapon is what makes the whole thing a lethal threat, not the act of carrying the weapon around the street.
It's the aggression + the clear intent of taking hold of a lethal weapon that makes the aggressor a lethal threat.
You've already proved yourself to be violent, and now trying to take hold of a weapon that escalates and multiplies your violence. You are the threat, not the carrier of the weapon.

It would be the same as me carrying a kitchen knife around the street in my pocket minding my own business and then someone coming at me, throwing me down, seeing the knife and then trying to take said knife by force... and then claiming it's my fault for carrying the knife. That I am the threat.

A very dishonest, disingenuous attempt at manipulating the perception of what happened. Boo.

[BlackDruid96]

Tthe "ANTIFA COMMANDER" has been arrested so everything is fine now.

https://www.wbay.com/2020/08/31/neen...ies-to-antifa/

Apparently, groups of white men armed with sticks, baseball bats, and helmets are more dangerous in the eyes of cops than groups of white men armed with guns which is...a bit weird but whatever.



But why would the officer pull up?

Military-style gear is not illegal, and is worn by PATRIOTS on the right.
Metal helmets aren't illegal either, and are often warn by PATRIOTS on the alt-right.
The Antifa flag is no more violent, deadly, or threatening than the Confederate flag, which is often carried by PATRIOTS on the right.

So the only difference was they had bats, which are decidedly less dangerous and less of a threat than a rifle.

And the "ANTIFA COMMANDER" that got picked up was, unsurprisingly, a 23 year old dude who immediately went into the fetal position because of course this chucklefuck would.

I'm just impressed that law enforcement seem to take people armed with flags not waved during a civil war and with melee weapons and personal protection, while they are usually quite gracious towards heavily armed vigilante yahoo's with multiple firearms on their person.

Almost like there's this weird cultural/political double standard or some shit. WHICH IS WEIRD, RIGHT?!

Maybe it had something to do with the flamethrower?

[Bodakane]

How is this hoax still alive?

What hoax are you talking about, covid? climate change? evolution? mueller report verified russian interference in the last election? house of representatives verified russian interference in the last election? senate verified russian interference in the last election?

You guys claim so many factual things are hoaxes, its hard to keep them all straight.

[Edge-]

Maybe it had something to do with the flamethrower?

For that guy, absolutely!

Except that there's this -

Green Bay police say they were called for “a whole bunch of white people with sticks, baseball bats and helmets headed... towards the police” on Walnut St. near Webster Ave.

Why is there no similar response from officers when armed conservatives in tacticool gear show up? Why is it sticks and baseball bats that are the bigger threat to provoke a police response?

“I don’t know who comes to a protest with a baseball bat for anything other than criminal or illegal activity,” said Green Bay Police Chief Andrew Smith.

Maybe for personal protection? I mean, why bring a gun if not for criminal or illegal activity?

A responding officer says he saw four individuals walking towards a protest with baseball bats. One man was wearing a metal helmet with goggles and military-style gear with multiple pouches, and was carrying an Antifa flag.

Except there's no indication that they had any idea he had a flamethrower when they stopped these people. Nothing in that description is illegal or anywhere near as dangerous or threatening as coming armed with firearms.

It's weird that there's no other mention of a flamethrower though. That's generally a bit of a bulkier thing to carry along, and one would imagine it would have been reported alongside the bats and sticks and not seemingly mentioned as an afterthought.

[Soliloque]

https://www.politifact.com/article/2...sides-remarks/
Because he said it?

"and you had some very bad people in that group"
"and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally."

???

Unless you hoaxers are trying to pretend that 100% of that group was made by nazis, Trump's comment was factual.
There were very good people on both sides with a few bad apples, which he called out without throwing everyone under the bus.

I never understood the twisting of panties over this comment, aside of the obvious dishonesty in trying to claim something Trump never stated, because guess fantasy is more pleasant than reality and honesty of facts.

[Bodakane]

For that guy, absolutely!

Except that there's this -



Why is there no similar response from officers when armed conservatives in tacticool gear show up? Why is it sticks and baseball bats that are the bigger threat to provoke a police response?



Maybe for personal protection? I mean, why bring a gun if not for criminal or illegal activity?



Except there's no indication that they had any idea he had a flamethrower when they stopped these people. Nothing in that description is illegal or anywhere near as dangerous or threatening as coming armed with firearms.

It's weird that there's no other mention of a flamethrower though. That's generally a bit of a bulkier thing to carry along, and one would imagine it would have been reported alongside the bats and sticks and not seemingly mentioned as an afterthought.

Wait!!!!!!!!

Maybe the cops were there to hand them bottles of water, tell them how much they appreciate them coming out and then use them as secondary police force.

[Soliloque]

Why is there no similar response from officers when armed conservatives in tacticool gear show up? Why is it sticks and baseball bats that are the bigger threat to provoke a police response?

When was the last time that conservatives in tactical gear attacked Federal buildings trying to set them on fire?
Honestly asking. Maybe I missed it.

Maybe for personal protection? I mean, why bring a gun if not for criminal or illegal activity?

Protection from what?
You have a right to peacefully assemble. If you respect that, police will do the protecting, not self made vigilantism.
Yes even if you're protesting against the police, they'll still protect you.
And if you have no intention to peacefully assemble then they're correct in going after the people coming in with bats planning to hurt people.

It all seems correct to me.

[Edge-]

"and you had some very bad people in that group"

CONTEXT TIME!!!

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

So some of the neo-nazi's were bad but...some were also very fine people!

"and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally."

Trump: "Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue?

"So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."

Reporter: "Sir, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just don’t understand what you were saying."

Trump: "No, no. There were people in that rally -- and I looked the night before -- if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people -- neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them.

"should be condemned totally" isn't "condemned totally". Hence why he had to give a subsequent press conference explicitly stating it to clean that up.

Additionally, these were, I suppose, the very fine peaceful protesters from the night before who weren't totally also white supremacists -



Who, as a reminder, were illegally protesting on school grounds.

This is all off-topic for the thread though, but it does line up with Trump immediately jumping to defend Rittenhouse.

- - - Updated - - -

When was the last time that conservatives in tactical gear attacked Federal buildings trying to set them on fire?
Honestly asking. Maybe I missed it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_D...house_shooting

Literally last year.

Protection from what?

Whatever the armed, out-of-city/state right wingers feel they need guns to protect themselves from. I dunno, but if they can have guns why can't these guys have bats?

You have a right to peacefully assemble. If you respect that, police will do the protecting, not self made vigilantism.

Man, I wish someone had told Rittenhouse and would tell this to all the other out-of-city/state vigilantes that the Kenosha cops seem to be good buddies with.

Yes even if you're protesting against the police, they'll still protect you.

Have you been in a coma for the past few months? Because there have been massive protests against the police, followed by hundreds upon hundreds of instances of police violence, abuse, and assault against peaceful protesters.

And if you have no intention to peacefully assemble then they're correct in going after the people coming in with bats planning to hurt people.

Then they should be going after all the people armed with rifles as well.