Political beliefs you no longer have

[JohnBrown1917]

You didn't even read the link, huh? And nope, she was a homeless butch lesbian brought into the gender crit community and turned off of the movement by their working with HATA and Heritage and Julie Bindel's claims of political lesbianism -- i.e. that being gay is a choice.

She also provided numerous screenshots of texts with prominent terfs working with the hard right.

Congrats, you're a nutty right winger and my guess is the extent of your political activism is posting on social media.

That was already obvious once he started making jokes about Pinochet's helicopter flights.

[Slant]

All "feminist" means is "believes that women should have political and social equality, and equitable treatment by society".

If you've got a problem with that, yeah, you're a misogynist. This is a binary issue; you're a feminist, or a mysoginist.

I guess there could be a third option, but that's female supremacism, a desire for a matriarchy, and basically no one advocates that seriously. Outside of that, it's a binary with no overlap.

Read the post I responded to. If you're saying feminism is the default state of a normal person that respects other people regardless of their gender, then you're watering down the definition to a point of it becoming useless, ie. synonymous with "civilized human being".

It's not a binary issue. Things rarely are. I respect women as much as every other person. What I don't respect is feminazis having successfully subverted the original feminist movement and started talking about agendas like privilege. That's a fun little word, isn't it. White privilege, male privilege. Nobody really explains what it means, but it can be loaded up with basically whatever you want it to mean. So, if you want to call me a mysoginist because I am repulsed by the American tendency to be hysteric and dramatic about their fucking breakfast not screaming "we love gays" the second they open a cereal box while at the same time unlearning their own native language to a point where they don't even fucking know what they're on about, go right ahead.

Meanwhile, in the normal parts of the world, you can absolutely be a decent human being without subscribing to movements that have devolved into hatespeech. You can treat people with respect without a fucking manual, because if you need a manual, something is clearly wrong with you to begin with. And if being a feminist is the only thing that makes you respect women, you can go and stick your opinion where the sun doesn't shine.

True equality, TRUE equality won't be here until the need for feminists to exist is over. The real trick is, how do you decide feminism has become obsolete when it's a political campaign with millions of budgets running? Cos as is always the case in the US, if there's a quick buck to be made, you never stop.

Which brings me to your last sentence, I can be non-feminist without targeting women for mistreatment and abuse. What the fuck is wrong with you? If I need a fucking arbitrary label made up by Tik tok idiots to declare that I'm a decent human being, I wonder if it's me that's the problem or if the world is just so fucked up that I don't need to bother giving a toss about it.

What would you like me to be? Hang on, I'll give it a shot... the PC label for a decent human being, and please always use the full name: A feminist, LGBT, Green, pro-Choice, republican-democrat, non-discriminatory, multi-theist, vegan, multicultural and otherwise completely non-descript person that has subscribed to at least two dozen charities and has the hobby of donating for people wherever he sees it. Of course he'll spend every single holiday in some random homeless kitchen and build homes for free, too.

Is that it? Is that the only acceptable way to exist for you? Or are you just picking your topic of the day depending on what you're talking about?

That post was oh, so very disappointing, Endus. I expect better from you than emotional bullshit.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

That was already obvious once he started making jokes about Pinochet's helicopter flights.

My experience is that people like NED are primarily doing nothing but still getting angry over "SJWs" as if it's still 2016. The fact that some have curdled into gender crits is par for the course and likely has a similar trajectory to other right ward online movement politics. There's a bunch of internal language and a dedication to activism that directly ignores what their supposed enemies are accomplishing and looking to achieve. Particularly in the US, for example, LGBTQ issues revolve around statutory action and support. I mean, if you support LGB people and women there are a thousand better things you could be doing, and most of them aren't even politics based.

[NED funded]

That was already obvious once he started making jokes about Pinochet's helicopter flights.

Out of curiosity I just checked all of my infractions and I dont think Ive ever made that joke. You must be confusing me with someone else

[Endus]

Read the post I responded to. If you're saying feminism is the default state of a normal person that respects other people regardless of their gender, then you're watering down the definition to a point of it becoming useless, ie. synonymous with "civilized human being".

I don't expect it to be a "default state".

But it is a baseline for being a decent person.

It's not a binary issue. Things rarely are. I respect women as much as every other person. What I don't respect is feminazis having successfully subverted the original feminist movement and started talking about agendas like privilege. That's a fun little word, isn't it. White privilege, male privilege. Nobody really explains what it means, but it can be loaded up with basically whatever you want it to mean. So, if you want to call me a mysoginist because I am repulsed by the American tendency to be hysteric and dramatic about their fucking breakfast not screaming "we love gays" the second they open a cereal box while at the same time unlearning their own native language to a point where they don't even fucking know what they're on about, go right ahead.

Let's see;

Using "feminazi" unapologetically.
Contesting the concept of "privilege", which is uncontroversial outside of extremist right-wing circles.
Outright homophobia.
Confusion about how language fundamentally functions.

You're not helping your case with any of this.

Meanwhile, in the normal parts of the world, you can absolutely be a decent human being without subscribing to movements that have devolved into hatespeech. You can treat people with respect without a fucking manual, because if you need a manual, something is clearly wrong with you to begin with. And if being a feminist is the only thing that makes you respect women, you can go and stick your opinion where the sun doesn't shine.

If you aren't a feminist, you don't respect women.

It isn't something that makes you respect women; you have this backwards. If you respect women, you'll be a feminist. That's the natural outcome of that respect.

I have no idea how you got yourself this twisted-up about a really simple concept.

True equality, TRUE equality won't be here until the need for feminists to exist is over.

Which can only happen through the continued advocacy of feminism. Because that goal has not remotely been achieved.

The real trick is, how do you decide feminism has become obsolete when it's a political campaign with millions of budgets running? Cos as is always the case in the US, if there's a quick buck to be made, you never stop.

This is abject nonsense. We're talking about a generic term for support for women's equality and equity, and by virtue of that, equality and equity for all genders.

You're trying to reframe that into a single political advocacy group with a particular budget, and that's just obviously wrong.

Which brings me to your last sentence, I can be non-feminist without targeting women for mistreatment and abuse.

If you're non-feminist, you oppose women being treated equitably and fairly.

Which means you're targeting women for mistreatment and abuse.

You literally can't be non-feminist without doing so, at least passively.

What the fuck is wrong with you? If I need a fucking arbitrary label made up by Tik tok idiots to declare that I'm a decent human being, I wonder if it's me that's the problem or if the world is just so fucked up that I don't need to bother giving a toss about it.

You mean a fairly well-defined label made up originally by Charles Fourier in 1837.

I'm not convinced you actually know what you're talking about, at this point.

What would you like me to be? Hang on, I'll give it a shot... the PC label for a decent human being, and please always use the full name: A feminist, LGBT, Green, pro-Choice, republican-democrat, non-discriminatory, multi-theist, vegan, multicultural and otherwise completely non-descript person that has subscribed to at least two dozen charities and has the hobby of donating for people wherever he sees it. Of course he'll spend every single holiday in some random homeless kitchen and build homes for free, too.

You can scratch "republican-democrat" out of there, as well as "vegan".

The rest? Yes, basic expectations for being a decent, informed human being. Opposing them necessarily involves some level of bigotry and/or denial of basic scientific fact. Often both.

[Darththeo]

When I was younger, I would say that I held certain things like a stance on transgenders using the bathroom of they gender they associate with rather than sex they were born as was wrong. Born male, use the male restroom. But, as I grew up, I realize that most people go to a bathroom to use a bathroom and you aren't any more or less safe just because a certain person is there. (Meaning, that before transgender bathroom rights, there was literally nothing stopping a man from going into the women's room).

Essentially, the stance of "It makes women more unsafe" is built on a lie that it being "born women only" made them safe. First off, women can hurt other women. Secondly, as I stated nothing prevents a man from entering a woman's room. 3rd, even if men could lie about being transgender ... it applies to all men, a woman can literally ask her husband, boyfriend, etc ... to come in and just pretend to be transgender. So, it is arguably more safe overall than less safe.

And again, the vast majority of people go to the bathroom to use the bathroom.

[NED funded]

You didn't even read the link, huh? And nope, she was a homeless butch lesbian brought into the gender crit community and turned off of the movement by their working with HATA and Heritage and Julie Bindel's claims of political lesbianism -- i.e. that being gay is a choice.

She also provided numerous screenshots of texts with prominent terfs working with the hard right.

Congrats, you're a nutty right winger and my guess is the extent of your political activism is posting on social media.

I finished reading the article and my guess was right, she is the one about the powerful network of lesbians

Back then, Amy was connected to an international network of powerful lesbians.

Idk what to say tbh, chose your groups wisely and dont associate with nutsos.

[Endus]

Out of curiosity I just checked all of my infractions and I dont think Ive ever made that joke. You must be confusing me with someone else

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post45643022
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post45643316
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post49321301

Just a few examples from the most obvious search of your posting history.

So no. They aren't.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

That Republicans are conservites. When I was young it was mostly true. Now they are just about corporate welfare and stock holders.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Idk what to say tbh, chose your groups wisely and dont associate with nutsos.

So, your point is character assassination not addressing that you support people who have allied with the hard right? How can you consider yourself a radical feminist then?

That seems par for the course given what was said below and given how weak your seemingly activism actually is.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post45643022
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post45643316
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post49321301

Just a few examples from the most obvious search of your posting history.

So no. They aren't.

Well, this is starkly unsurprising.

[downnola]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post45643022
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post45643316
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post49321301

Just a few examples from the most obvious search of your posting history.

So no. They aren't.

This is when the Zoomers would say, "Yikes."

[NED funded]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post45643022
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post45643316
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post49321301

Just a few examples from the most obvious search of your posting history.

So no. They aren't.

Those are obviously tongue in cheek but whatever I guess you are right. I forgot about it since its been two years

- - - Updated - - -

So, your point is character assassination not addressing that you support people who have allied with the hard right? How can you consider yourself a radical feminist then?

That seems par for the course given what was said below and given how weak your seemingly activism actually is.

My response is that you choose the groups that you want to support. There are multiple groups that support left wing politics some are deranged, some arent thats kinda of the point. I chose my TERF groups differently, I have never even heard of HATA up until today

[JohnBrown1917]

Those are obviously tongue in cheek but whatever I guess you are right. I forgot about it since its been two years

- - - Updated - - -



My response is that you choose the groups that you want to support. There are multiple groups that support left wing politics some are deranged, some arent thats kinda of the point. I chose my TERF groups differently, I have never even heard of HATA up until today

"i'm being unironic"
"Its tongue-in-cheek"

Hmmmm, going for that right-wing trope of redefining words, are we?

[GreenGoldSharpie]

My response is that you choose the groups that you want to support. There are multiple groups that support left wing politics some are deranged, some arent thats kinda of the point. I chose my TERF groups differently, I have never even heard of HATA up until today

Because you're an ancillary social media account, and, judging by your posts, you've built that presence entirely on an anti-SJW criticism of the left -- a concept that even further distances you from feminist core action. The people represented in the article are the groups who are actively involved in the gender crit movement, and they're entirely dependent on right wing money and legal systems. There is no alternative because gender crits don't have any active presence in the left at this point outside of pretending to do so on social media.

This is why you're a right winger and not even a TERF. You're obviously not a radical feminist.

[EkkiThump]

That's a fun little word, isn't it. White privilege, male privilege. Nobody really explains what it means, but it can be loaded up with basically whatever you want it to mean.

It means the same thing it means anywhere. More often than not, being white is an advantage compared to not being white. More often than not, being male is an advantage compared to not being male. You can argue against that if you don't believe it, but it's not obscure what people are talking about when they use those terms.

Meanwhile, in the normal parts of the world, you can absolutely be a decent human being without subscribing to movements that have devolved into hatespeech. You can treat people with respect without a fucking manual, because if you need a manual, something is clearly wrong with you to begin with.

So it doesn't matter whether women think you're treating them with respect, as long as you think you're treating them with respect?

True equality, TRUE equality won't be here until the need for feminists to exist is over. The real trick is, how do you decide feminism has become obsolete when it's a political campaign with millions of budgets running? Cos as is always the case in the US, if there's a quick buck to be made, you never stop.

You decide whether feminism is obsolete by looking, let's say at the US and asking yourself: is it no longer an inherent disadvantage to be a woman?

If I need a fucking arbitrary label made up by Tik tok idiots to declare that I'm a decent human being, I wonder if it's me that's the problem or if the world is just so fucked up that I don't need to bother giving a toss about it.

There's no way you actually believe feminism was invented on Tik Tok.

[Slant]

I don't expect it to be a "default state".

But it is a baseline for being a decent person.



Let's see;

Using "feminazi" unapologetically.
Contesting the concept of "privilege", which is uncontroversial outside of extremist right-wing circles.
Outright homophobia.
Confusion about how language fundamentally functions.

You're not helping your case with any of this.



If you aren't a feminist, you don't respect women.

It isn't something that makes you respect women; you have this backwards. If you respect women, you'll be a feminist. That's the natural outcome of that respect.

I have no idea how you got yourself this twisted-up about a really simple concept.



Which can only happen through the continued advocacy of feminism. Because that goal has not remotely been achieved.



This is abject nonsense. We're talking about a generic term for support for women's equality and equity, and by virtue of that, equality and equity for all genders.

You're trying to reframe that into a single political advocacy group with a particular budget, and that's just obviously wrong.



If you're non-feminist, you oppose women being treated equitably and fairly.

Which means you're targeting women for mistreatment and abuse.

You literally can't be non-feminist without doing so, at least passively.



You mean a fairly well-defined label made up originally by Charles Fourier in 1837.

I'm not convinced you actually know what you're talking about, at this point.



You can scratch "republican-democrat" out of there, as well as "vegan".

The rest? Yes, basic expectations for being a decent, informed human being. Opposing them necessarily involves some level of bigotry and/or denial of basic scientific fact. Often both.

If you deny that there are women running around that hate men for no other reasons than being men, then you need to get your head checked. Those are feminazis. I'm not talking about normal people that stand up for feminism, I'm talking about people like you, so lost in the argument, that you unironically say it's either feminist or mysoginist. How about I don't give a fuck about your -isms and just am a better human being than you because to me gender and race ACTUALLY don't matter? Now what, are you pretending I'm supporting hate against women because of what, I don't spend 100% of my free time chasing down assholes and kicking their asses?

You're delusional. Completely lost in the shitter. I'm not contesting the concept of privilege, I'm contesting your use of it. I don't actually think you know what you're talking about. Those are American problems nobody outside the US gives a fuck about. So how about you stop pretending the whole planet only cares about the US and Canada and look outside the box for a while. Get some perspective. Homophobia? Clearly you don't know me. I don't give a fuck about them. I am allowed to be indifferent to how other people live their lifestyle, it's their right to live it the way they want to live it. And it's not your righ to approve or disapprove, either, you patronizing child.

And I'm curious what makes you an expert on who I am, you know jack shit about me. And you know jack shit about how I treat other people. I will call you out on your emotional bullshit, though. That you can count on. Learn your own language. Again. I say feminazis subert the feminist movement, your comprehension seems to be that I think every feminist is a feminazi. Explain that conclusion to me, or are you just full of shit? I'm talking about Americans being overly dramatic about the new found gay agenda, guess what, we've had that going for 30 years or more even, you can calm the fuck down about it. I'm not taking a pass at gay people, that's YOU not understanding sentence structure, see, the object was AMERICANS BEING HYSTERIC, not the cereal box screaming "we love gays". You could replace that slogan with anything else you want and it would still say the same things. You guys need to take a chill pill. About everything.

And no, I'm not a feminist. I've never walked in one of their walks, I've never discussed in any of their discussions, I've never joined a feminist club or whatever it is you think I should do. I don't do these things, because unlike you, I can treat women with the same respect I treat everyone else with without slapping a label on myself to feel better. So by your definition, I'm a feminist. Awesome, I don't care. I've done nothing to get that label except being a decent human being. And you're now completely lost, because you HAVE to pretend I'm a women hating asshole now, otherwise your stupid high school argument falls apart. No what, are you actually going to talk about actual political movements now or do you seriously run around the globe and call every decent human being a feminist because you decided to pick a definition that literally excludes just mysoginists. Which is kind of stupid and part of what I mean about you guys unlearning your own language. DEFINITIONS matter. As a legally abled person you should know that.

This is the second sorry excuse of a post you made. You should be ashamed of yourself, I'm definitely going to revise my opinion of you. Fucking hell, calling me a mysonigist AND a homophobe, too, fucking... the nerve.

- - - Updated - - -

"i'm being unironic"
"Its tongue-in-cheek"

Hmmmm, going for that right-wing trope of redefining words, are we?

That's actually an American tactic. LITERALLY. Goes for both right and left... whatever it is those definitions mean do your silly club competition.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, since Endus has me so pissed off right now, I'll say this, too... it's people like him that talk the talk but don't accomplish anything that is the reason why feminism still needs to be a thing. If people would celebrate their own holiness less and actually DID change the world, we'd be in a better place. But hey, go ahead and wave your flag if that makes you happy. Doesn't accomplish jack shit, but who am I to judge, eh? At least you tried. E for effort... Pathetic lip service.
[Infraction]

[Thekri]

I personally dropped quite a few of my political beliefs as I matured. I used to be very against gay marriage (and really all other LGBT rights things) and had very Christian-centric view of religious freedoms. I also used to be strongly pro-life, and I softened my stance on that a lot, and now have a more nuanced view of it. Now I have a much more tolerant policy that thinks everyone from any religion or sexuality should have the exact same set of rights, because my prior beliefs in those areas were directly contradictory with my stated belief of equal rights. Essentially I didn't really change my overall political viewpoint as much as I worked to eliminate the hypocrisies that were inherent in it.

I am sure my future political beliefs will continue to evolve for similar reasons. I try to frame my policies on each individual topic to be consistent with my overarching values, and if they aren't, I change them until they are in line with my values. This leaves me with a mix of policies that don't really align with any major political party very well, but currently are closer to the Democrats.

For instance, even back when I was a Republican/conservative, I was strongly pro-immigration, because I believed (and still believe) we should encourage legal immigration, and use an abundance of mercy and fairness when addressing illegal immigration. I am strongly pro-Gun, but not particularly in line with either party on the specifics, since I would like to see a lessening of some restrictions (I am a big fan of concealed carry and the NFA system), but a tightening of others, like universal background checks. Basically I think you should be able to own basically any weapon, but it shouldn't be easy, with a higher barrier to get any firearm, and progressively more checks to get more lethal variants. But if you want to own a HMG, you should be able to, it should just be a lot of work to get one.

I think the most important thing is to be able to articulate why you believe what you believe. I think too many people attach their political beliefs to their self-identity, and see changing those beliefs as a sign of weakness, rather then growth.

[Endus]

If you deny that there are women running around that hate men for no other reasons than being men, then you need to get your head checked. Those are feminazis.

You mean "misandrists".

I've never denied they existed. I disputed your use of a term that exists to condemn feminism by association.

You're delusional. Completely lost in the shitter. I'm not contesting the concept of privilege, I'm contesting your use of it. I don't actually think you know what you're talking about. Those are American problems nobody outside the US gives a fuck about.

1> I didn't bring up the concept of privilege, here. You did.
2> I'm not American. It's baffling how many people miss that when my location is clearly listed.

No what, are you actually going to talk about actual political movements now or do you seriously run around the globe and call every decent human being a feminist because you decided to pick a definition that literally excludes just mysoginists.

I generally don't bring it up. Because it's so universally accepted. Unless someone starts attacking the concept. As you did.

Which is kind of stupid and part of what I mean about you guys unlearning your own language. DEFINITIONS matter. As a legally abled person you should know that.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism
"1: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes"

https://www.britannica.com/topic/feminism
"Feminism, the belief in social, economic, and political equality of the sexes."

Definitions do matter.

That's why I'm correcting you as to what the word means. Because you're the one using it incorrectly.

[Monster Hunter]

A whole bunch.

When I was a teen I was a Marxist (and I don't mean the way people on this form both claim to be and use an an insult) I was litteraly a member of the marxist-leninist party of great Britain, went on the rallys and protests. And to be Completly honest I probly still would be if it wasn't for the save palistine campaign Facebook Chat group. If it hadn't gotten so toxic one night and I hadn't been up to say what I had thought was a common goal of all of us, that the workers of Isreal are still the working class and we should stand up for all the working class and by unity we end conflict.... Well I'd wouldn't have been booted from the chat, questioned alot, and eventually left the party.

After that I kinda started looking at alot of different political beliefs and theory's and now I'd say I'm a disrealian who votes lib dem as I belive there policy's to be the closest to that belife currently, though no party really follows disreali properly. That and I'm tierd of the Conservative party parroting the term one nation without actualy understanding anything of one nation policy's just cos they want to swing some working class seats.

[Slant]

You mean "misandrists".

I've never denied they existed. I disputed your use of a term that exists to condemn feminism by association.



1> I didn't bring up the concept of privilege, here. You did.
2> I'm not American. It's baffling how many people miss that when my location is clearly listed.

I generally don't bring it up. Because it's so universally accepted. Unless someone starts attacking the concept. As you did.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism
"1: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes"

https://www.britannica.com/topic/feminism
"Feminism, the belief in social, economic, and political equality of the sexes."

Definitions do matter.

That's why I'm correcting you as to what the word means. Because you're the one using it incorrectly.

If you had read the post I responded to instead of butting in without knowing what you're talking about, you'd know that someone went from being a feminist to not feminist. Do you think he's changed his mind so much that he now runs around smacking women on their ass just to have pay back for something? I think not. Daily speech, mate. That's what the dude I responded to concluded. It's not binary, genius. There are different levels of commitment and activity. You can apparently be a feminist not giving a toss about anything as long as you generally don't care enough about anything to be either pro or con beyond, you know, generally approving of the idea. Wow, what a big accomplishment. Or you can be one walking on the street picketing because you saw a man not giving a woman a handshake that was offered because he had a cranky day.

So, go ahead, tell me again how binary the world is. I dare you. Cos one of the two really doesn't accomplish all that much except... lip service. But that's all that's needed in your parts of the world, isn't it? As long as you pretend, everything is fine. That's how the US totally solved their racial issues and their secret fetish to be Nazistates 2.0. As long as you PRETEND to be the good guy, surely everyone will believe you... lol.