Poll: What do you think?

Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.

Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
8
9
... LastLast
  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    That (obviously) is not how it works. They aren't going to tune hunters to do 5% more damage than everybody else with HM.

    The balance goal is for everybody to do the same damage. Of course they never actually achieve that, but that's the goal. Hunter single-target damage will be tuned assuming the HM debuff is active.
    Balancing in WoW sucks anyway. The difference between covenants are going to be more than 5 %. And the difference between classes are also going to be much more than 5 %. So hunters might be the top spec when using HM and still in top 5 when not using HM. We don't really know.

    An AOE is probably going to almost the same no matter what. They wont balance AOE abilities around HM so these ability will do the same damage as if HM didnt exist.

  2. #122
    Yes, that is why I specified single-target damage.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Classes should have strengths and weaknesses I don’t see a problem giving hunter a ST boost if other classes are stronger in other places.
    Did i miss something? Applying HM is easy, can be done before pulls or while doing mechanics where you cant hurt others. There really is no skillcap.

    There are other, far more punishing mechanics. Like being in melee or being a caster not able to cast while moving.

    Generally speaking, a BM hunter should be pretty low at single target potential and a MM hunter / SV hunter pretty high. Especially SV needs to be the best to make it more popular. And HM won't break hunters.

  4. #124
    No, "generally speaking", every single spec should perform absolutely the same in both single-target and AE. They don't because that's a really difficult thing to actually implement, but there's a reason why it's called balancing. You shouldn't be screwed with no recourse because you chose the monk class or whatever 10 years ago.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Balancing in WoW sucks anyway. The difference between covenants are going to be more than 5 %. And the difference between classes are also going to be much more than 5 %. So hunters might be the top spec when using HM and still in top 5 when not using HM. We don't really know.

    An AOE is probably going to almost the same no matter what. They wont balance AOE abilities around HM so these ability will do the same damage as if HM didnt exist.
    Honestly, who is NOT going to apply HM? Any hunter will use it when it is useful and there will be a numerical breakpoint like "if HM costs a normal GCD and your target lives less than 12 sec, you don't apply HM". Basically you will use HM on boss and if adds have to be burnt down, you simply wont care about HM unless the timings are very special.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurosh View Post
    Did i miss something? Applying HM is easy, can be done before pulls or while doing mechanics where you cant hurt others. There really is no skillcap.

    There are other, far more punishing mechanics. Like being in melee or being a caster not able to cast while moving.

    Generally speaking, a BM hunter should be pretty low at single target potential and a MM hunter / SV hunter pretty high. Especially SV needs to be the best to make it more popular. And HM won't break hunters.
    The problem is in M+, and add or council fights in raids. The constant obligation to switch targets creates a very unhealthy mindset where your rotation feels sluggish if you try to constantly reapply it or gives you a sense you are underperforming if you are not.
    On ST bosses then no, it is not a problem. But this is about target switching and how constantly annoying it feels to feel compelled to reapply it.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #127
    It's not a "problem" in that sense anyway. Hunters lived with HM for over a decade. Many of us just don't like it, because it isn't fun to have to press a button that does nothing on its own before you can use your other buttons that do.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurosh View Post
    Honestly, who is NOT going to apply HM? Any hunter will use it when it is useful and there will be a numerical breakpoint like "if HM costs a normal GCD and your target lives less than 12 sec, you don't apply HM". Basically you will use HM on boss and if adds have to be burnt down, you simply wont care about HM unless the timings are very special.
    Having played with Hunter's Mark throughout BfA I can confirm that you probably won't reapply it, and only apply it once in the case of raid bosses. The problem is the constant sense of underperforming if you are not applying it constantly. As I have mentioned before, 5% is not an insignificant amount of damage, and so not using it makes you feel like you are underperforming.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #129
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    24,559
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurosh View Post
    Did i miss something? Applying HM is easy, can be done before pulls or while doing mechanics where you cant hurt others. There really is no skillcap.

    There are other, far more punishing mechanics. Like being in melee or being a caster not able to cast while moving.

    Generally speaking, a BM hunter should be pretty low at single target potential and a MM hunter / SV hunter pretty high. Especially SV needs to be the best to make it more popular. And HM won't break hunters.
    id think HM should just be another knob when it comes to the the damage done not that it has any thing to do with skill cap. if hunters don't have the best aoe or best burst but can be put a bit ahead of other specs on ST with HM i think that's total fine. of course this should also differ with the specs Bm should do less damage then MM for example as it's fully moble.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    No, "generally speaking", every single spec should perform absolutely the same in both single-target and AE. They don't because that's a really difficult thing to actually implement, but there's a reason why it's called balancing. You shouldn't be screwed with no recourse because you chose the monk class or whatever 10 years ago.
    Cant say i agree I get why you'd want all of the specs in the game to have the same performance in all places but I've always been a fan of strengths and weaknesses when it comes to design with something like a rouge having less sustain damage then a warrior but alot more burst or a hutner having more ST but a mage being better at AOE.

  10. #130
    If rogues had a lot less sustain than other classes, they would be complete garbage in any fight longer than their burst duration. If mages had less ST than other classes, mages would be complete garbage in pretty much every raid. That's why.

    Obviously classes shouldn't play the same, but their overall performance should be balanced, again note I use that word balanced, very common word but it actually has a meaning, to perform at the same level. If they don't perform similarly that would be unbalanced.

    I mean, this is really basic stuff. Your class doesn't deserve to perform better than everybody else's. That's why hunter primary target damage will be balanced assuming the HM debuff is active. Otherwise hunters would do 5% more damage than every other class, and that is not a sane design goal.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2020-09-03 at 07:22 PM.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurosh View Post
    Honestly, who is NOT going to apply HM? Any hunter will use it when it is useful and there will be a numerical breakpoint like "if HM costs a normal GCD and your target lives less than 12 sec, you don't apply HM". Basically you will use HM on boss and if adds have to be burnt down, you simply wont care about HM unless the timings are very special.
    I agree. There are just a lot of people complaining that Blizzard are "stealing" 5 % damage of their damage on targets without HM. But our AOE abilities will no be balance around HM. So beast cleave will not do 5 % less damage compared to if HM didn't exist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    If rogues had a lot less sustain than other classes, they would be complete garbage in any fight longer than their burst duration. If mages had less ST than other classes, mages would be complete garbage in pretty much every raid. That's why.

    Obviously classes shouldn't play the same, but their overall performance should be balanced, again note I use that word balanced, very common word but it actually has a meaning, to perform at the same level. If they don't perform similarly that would be unbalanced.

    I mean, this is really basic stuff. Your class doesn't deserve to perform better than everybody else's. That's why hunter primary target damage will be balanced assuming the HM debuff is active. Otherwise hunters would do 5% more damage than every other class, and that is not a sane design goal.
    Yes but other classes do also have stuff similar to HM. Outlaw Rogue got an attack that increase their crit change and damage on only ONE target. So Blizzard will also balance Outlaw Rogues single target damage around that ability, just like HM. A lot of classes have stuff like this.

    In the end, there are always classes that do 5-10 % more damage than others. We don't know if Hunter are going to do 5 % more damage than Palading for example. This could very well happen. Especially with covenants on top on everything.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2020-09-04 at 10:50 AM.

  12. #132
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    24,559
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    If rogues had a lot less sustain than other classes, they would be complete garbage in any fight longer than their burst duration. If mages had less ST than other classes, mages would be complete garbage in pretty much every raid. That's why.

    Obviously classes shouldn't play the same, but their overall performance should be balanced, again note I use that word balanced, very common word but it actually has a meaning, to perform at the same level. If they don't perform similarly that would be unbalanced.

    I mean, this is really basic stuff. Your class doesn't deserve to perform better than everybody else's. That's why hunter primary target damage will be balanced assuming the HM debuff is active. Otherwise hunters would do 5% more damage than every other class, and that is not a sane design goal.
    for something like a 5-10% difference I can't say i see a problem not every fight is a patch work so it's not like classes that have better burst instead of sustain or better aoe instead of single target wouldn't be taken outside of the high end.

    but mabye it's because I've never really cared about Min maxing class selection from fight to fight that i feel like strengths and weaknesses are the better way to go.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    other classes do also have stuff similar to HM. Outlaw Rogue got an attack that increase their crit change and damage on only ONE target. So Blizzard will also balance Outlaw Rogues single target damage around that ability, just like HM. A lot of classes have stuff like this.
    Yes, and that's fine. If Hunter's Mark actually did damage (call it Marked Shot, that name is available!) I'd be cool with it. That isn't my preferred solution and nobody else seems to love it either as it only got 2 votes in the poll. But it would be a huge improvement.

    My main objection isn't the 5% damage debuff in of itself, it's that pressing that button feels bad because that's all it does.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2020-09-04 at 03:54 PM.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    My main objection isn't the 5% damage debuff in of itself, it's that pressing that button feels bad because that's all it does.
    To be honest, I have been playing with it for a while on Beta and it feels completely fine. I agree that it would feel better if the ability itself did some damage but it is really not a big deal that it doesn't. Especially on AOE we got a lot of unused GCDs so having to use one switching targets is completely fine. It is not at all a big problem like people in here make it out to be. It plays completely and people just need to get used to it. I pretty sure that no one is going to complain about it after a while because it's not an issue at all in practice.

  15. #135
    That is your opinion and that is completely valid. I disagree, as do 183 other hunters in the poll.

  16. #136
    Taking it off the GCD is a simple and elegant solution imo. I'm all for having more options/spells in our toolkit. But being on the GCD, in this state, feels mandatory and all it does is it clutters the rotation.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Veliarne View Post
    Taking it off the GCD is a simple and elegant solution imo. I'm all for having more options/spells in our toolkit. But being on the GCD, in this state, feels mandatory and all it does is it clutters the rotation.
    Taking it off the GCD does not make any sense. If we can macro it to all of our abilities, HM would effectively disappear as an ability from our toolkit, basically making it a passive bonus. Blizzard needs to rework it by either removing the damage buff component from it to be useful in anti stealth roles in PvP only, or scrapping the idea altogether. But right now HM implementation feels very lazy and counterproductive to the class. Mark my words (pun intended), before long we will see a legendary that will allow arcane shot (or steady, or cobra, makes no difference) to apply HM automatically. I guess the person who develops hunters and their abilities since Legion is still in charge. And time and time again we will see basic gameplay functionality be fixed through almost mandatory legendaries and/or effects in future updates.

    "Marking dye"
    The effectiveness of Hunter's Mark increases by 50% (to 7.5% from 5%) and it can now be applied by your single target shots and Kill Command.

    There, a top seller legendary. Feel free to use it Blizz, no strings attached, you have my permission.
    Last edited by Gaaz; 2020-09-10 at 06:25 PM.

  18. #138
    Right, there's essentially zero chance they take it off the GCD for exactly the reason you mentioned. That's on the poll just because lots of hunters want it.

    Preferred fix from posters both here and on the beta forums is to remove the 5% debuff. That's my preference also.

  19. #139
    I can't wait to have an extra GCD before I can attack each and every target. Thanks Blizz, Hunter's Mark is going to be super popular and every Hunter is going to love it.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Froggy View Post
    I can't wait to have an extra GCD before I can attack each and every target. Thanks Blizz, Hunter's Mark is going to be super popular and every Hunter is going to love it.
    bro, its ICONIC!!! did you not play classic! it gives me nostalgia, that means its good!

    Im fine with them bringing back the essense of older abilities, but porting them in as they were expecting them to fit into the modern system is just a terrible idea.
    It could be fine as a medium CD ability or as pure utility, but forcing it back into the spec is pretty clumsy

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •