Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[eschatological]

So, in his own words, he witnessed something that would have led to the death of a friend of his? Well, he better have proof, because I don't think the people defending Rittenhouse are going to be taking up a collection for him even if he does have proof of a sort of self-defense situation here.

Because the Rittenhouse stuff keeps showing up as murder, and this one, Rittenhouse's defenders are now trying to call a politically motivated killing.

The video shows the puff of bear mace going off. Even that might be hard to argue is self defense. How he's gonna prove they were threatening his friend is beyond me.

[JohnBrown1917]

This thread is gonna slow down a bit now...

I was reading some more about the Compton "Executioners" and their lengthy history of excessive force and murder

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...n-executioners

The police are no better than the worst kind of gang you'll find in middle America. anybody surprised?

[Endus]

The video shows the puff of bear mace going off. Even that might be hard to argue is self defense. How he's gonna prove they were threatening his friend is beyond me.

It's the same issue with Rittenhouse. You want to argue "threat of imminent death or great bodily harm"? You need a lot more than "things might evolve in a really bad direction from here". You need "he's got the weapon aimed at my friend and he's gonna shoot unless I shoot him first" levels of "oh fuck". You don't get to pre-empt the potential for escalation of violence by escalating it yourself to lethal force.

[Edge-]

This thread is gonna slow down a bit now...

I was reading some more about the Compton "Executioners" and their lengthy history of excessive force and murder

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...n-executioners

The scope of it is insane. 15-20 deputies are members of the internal gang? They were actively recruiting multiple additional members in a competition where only 2 can join each year, no women or people of color?

How is the entire department not placed on leave pending a full investigation of criminal behavior and, at best, officers not blowing the whistle earlier? Because it sure seems like much of the department would have to be actively complicit in knowing about and covering up for the gang. Especially considering teh allegation that he gang runs the whole station.

I'm sure this will be like most whistleblower situations though. The cops will cover everything up and there will be no consequences as they continue their behavior. The whistleblower will either be fired and blacklisted from working in law enforcement ever again, or will be harassed until he quits and the continue to be harassed until he leaves the city.

We've seen this before.



Shanna Lopez - https://www.dmagazine.com/publicatio...ng-inside-dpd/

Cariole Horne - https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020...police-officer

Joe Crystal - https://www.huffpost.com/entry/balti...stal_n_7582374

Laura Schook - https://www.wlky.com/article/police-...-fired/3758255

Sean Gannon - https://steemit.com/news/@johnvibes/...w-cop-for-rape

Regina Tasca - https://www.pix11.com/2015/03/13/bog...getting-fired/

[DingDongKing]

"Vomiting right wing talking points" ? Thats not an argument. I am sure that "vomiting left wing talking points" would make you happy.

Attacking youtube creators is not argument either. So please, don’t try. They didnt make up the footage of him helping people. Their persons dont make the footage any less real and neither do I claim that helping people absolve someone of murder. Thats just your strawman.

He did not murder anyone just your opinion - he was not sentenced yet. His life WAS absolutely in danger. One guy was attacking him to the head with a skateboard and other straight up tried to shoot him.

1. Right wing talking points = straw man arguments that have been put together. There’s not much to explain. I’m sorry it offends your sensibilities.

2. Both YouTube content creators have framed the content as ‘something you not supposed to see’ or that the ‘mainstream media is not showing you’. It’s an indictment of the original poster’s predisposition to believe their nonsense conspiracy theories that the shooter wasn’t a murderer.

3. Neither was trying to kill him or remotely even take his life. Yet he took theirs. That same argument you guys are using about self defence? Goes both ways. He brought a gun out to play Rainbow Six. Shit went down. He’s the aggressor. He murdered. Thanks.

[eschatological]

It's the same issue with Rittenhouse. You want to argue "threat of imminent death or great bodily harm"? You need a lot more than "things might evolve in a really bad direction from here". You need "he's got the weapon aimed at my friend and he's gonna shoot unless I shoot him first" levels of "oh fuck". You don't get to pre-empt the potential for escalation of violence by escalating it yourself to lethal force.

I mean, I've seen cases of "mistaken good faith" where the shooter claiming self defense saw them reaching for something at their side and they thought it was a gun, and shot. We see it a lot with cops invoking this defense, which imo isn't in good faith because to them any black dude reaching to his side is going for a gun (CF the kid in Atlanta who got shot a couple years back for reaching for his driver's license).

In this case, it's not unreasonable for the shooter to think these people who had come into town to incite shit might be armed and looking for conflict. And if he saw him reaching for something holstered at his side? It's plausible, at least. It's at best a 50/50 thing, and often relies on how believable the shooter is on the stand (if he goes on the stand at all, it's somewhat rare for defendants to be on the stand). But I could also argue that if he and other protesters had been maced all day, and none shown actual weapons, he should have reasonably thought they were reaching for mace.

I still wouldn't think this guy's self defense claim would hold much water. Especially since the video seems to suggest he started a verbal altercation.

[Bodakane]

I live in a world where both the right win militia kid and the idiot liberal guy are both guilty of murder. Anyone want to join me?

[Orange Joe]

https://imgur.com/a/e5EBhV3

Skater boy is hitting up with it and probably trying to grab his weapon. It does not make sense to hit him with grip or wheels. Why would you hit him with that? If you were going to hit someone with a skateboard you would hold it exactly how he does. Also if you were trying to lay on him holding a skateboard would only make it harder for you.

Watch the video.

Second guy is holding a pistol. Kyle aims at him and he does "I surrender" gesture. Kyle starts lowering his weapon and the guy with a gun quickly lowers his hand aims at Kyle and thats when Kyle shoots him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYjG...hannel=NBCNews

If you were going for damage you would hold it sideways. Less surface area = more damage.

and.... I do not see the guy aiming the gun at him again. He looks like he was trying to run past him.

[DingDongKing]

I live in a world where both the right win militia kid and the idiot liberal guy are both guilty of murder. Anyone want to join me?

Which idiot liberal guy are we talking about?

[postman1782]

I live in a world where both the right win militia kid and the idiot liberal guy are both guilty of murder. Anyone want to join me?

I have no problem with that. But the right wingers of the forum that have been defending the kid, will do anything they can to defend him, even until he gets sentenced if he gets convicted. Just like they did with Heather Heyer's murderer.

[Orange Joe]

Which idiot liberal guy are we talking about?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/31/us/wh...est/index.html

militia person gets shot and killed.

[Levelfive]

I live in a world where both the right win militia kid and the idiot liberal guy are both guilty of murder. Anyone want to join me?

100%. Again, I'm not sure why that's so hard for conservatives / right-wingers, w/e. I would also add that I cannot begin to imagine the extra dimension of pain on top of grief their loved ones must be experiencing to see these murderers cheered on or called heroes.

[Felya]

I have no problem with that. But the right wingers of the forum that have been defending the kid, will do anything they can to defend him, even until he gets sentenced if he gets convicted. Just like they did with Heather Heyer's murderer.

Then their mask falls off and they get banned... Works as intended...

sorry mods... lol

[DingDongKing]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/31/us/wh...est/index.html

militia person gets shot and killed.

Ah, yes. Yup, the guy who killed Jay Bishop/Aaron Danielson is a murderer too. No business anyone’s got running around with guns. People literally just taking advantage of the situation for their own goals. Trump is right in that regard, the people creating chaos are anarchists. But they’re also not really aligned with the protesters, though he’s gonna ignore that bit.

That said, I did find it interesting how when this particular Nazi sympathiser was murdered (he did not deserve to die), everyone on the right from Andy Ngo to some lady posting that he was her best friend, went into full pearl clutch mode. Yes, it’s a tragedy that their friend was murdered. He should not have been.

But it’s the same people ignoring Floyd, Taylor, McClain, Prude, Blake and many more. What winds me up is this party line acknowledgment of crimes. Why should anyone die? It’s just not on. And all of these deaths can be avoided if criminal justice reform takes top priority. And hate groups across the board are addressed.

And the stupid fucking 2A.

[Felya]

100%. Again, I'm not sure why that's so hard for conservatives / right-wingers, w/e. I would also add that I cannot begin to imagine the extra dimension of pain on top of grief their loved ones must be experiencing to see these murderers cheered on or called heroes.

Should have watched the RNC last week... they are fighting for their way of life, because an asshole billionaire as president can’t run on his record. I feel this is more people being mislead, than rotten.

[DingDongKing]

Should have watched the RNC last week... they are fighting for their way of life, because an asshole billionaire as president can’t run on his record. I feel this is more people being mislead, than rotten.

They’d be fighting for their way of life anyway. Trump has just created a permission structure for that way of life. But the divide down the middle goes back 250 odd years. It’s what happens when a massive Union like this exists. Politicians especially love the divide. Look at every second country. India, Russia, Brazil, China, even the U.K., Canada and Australia have the same issues but at a less severe level. Party lines and tribes over actual patriotism. Not the flag waving shit that jingoists love.

[eschatological]

I live in a world where both the right win militia kid and the idiot liberal guy are both guilty of murder. Anyone want to join me?

Sure. They both seem pretty clear to me.

...and to be clear, it's because the force they used wasn't proportional to the threat they faced.

[silveth]

I have no problem with that. But the right wingers of the forum that have been defending the kid, will do anything they can to defend him, even until he gets sentenced if he gets convicted. Just like they did with Heather Heyer's murderer.

Is that any different from left wingers defending rioters and looters?

I mean they burned down a pawn shop in Minn. Then we find out there was a body found in there. They loot a pawn shop in St Lewis, oh and killed and elderly black man that showed up to his friends business when they had broken in. They killed an 8 year old child in Atlanta after burning down the Wendy's and setting up camp there.

They now seem to be trying the block people in buildings and burning them down? Is that ok?

Like I said earlier, I personally can see how the case is not cut and dry. I am not sure if he was in the right or not. I am sad that the events happened and that 2 people are dead.

But your right to some "right wingers" they think he was justified.

Just like to some "left wingers" the actions of the "peaceful protesters" are justified.

Team sports at its best. People are dying for it now, peoples lives are being destroyed for it now. Everyone has to build the narrative so that their side is always right. The other side is always wrong. No middle ground. The other side can never have a point. If they have facts that dispute your ideas, ignore them. If they have thoughts different from yours, they are subhuman.

[DingDongKing]

-snips-

Two points to note: -

1. No one with their head screwed on is defending anyone who’s rioting and looting. Not Biden. Not Harris. Not anyone in the Party. Not their voters who aren’t morons. Not anyone with the US’ best interests at heart.

2. It’s important not to meld peaceful protests and rioting/looting into one. There are MANY MANY peaceful protests continuing without people rioting/looting, because the latter is not intrinsically associated with the former, no matter how much Conservative media tries to say so.

Apart from that, I agree. Party line loyalty is ridiculous in the face of actual crises that demand unity. It’s not exclusive to Trump-era America but it’s definitely been exacerbated by the Tea Party politics since 2010 odd and then this new far right GOP under Trump.

[szechuan]

But your right to some "right wingers" they think he was justified.

Taking a peaceful protesters life is not justifiable.

Just like to some "left wingers" the actions of the "peaceful protesters" are justified.

And yet the vast majority of protesters were peaceful.