1. #13601
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    They’d be fighting for their way of life anyway. Trump has just created a permission structure for that way of life. But the divide down the middle goes back 250 odd years. It’s what happens when a massive Union like this exists. Politicians especially love the divide. Look at every second country. India, Russia, Brazil, China, even the U.K., Canada and Australia have the same issues but at a less severe level. Party lines and tribes over actual patriotism. Not the flag waving shit that jingoists love.
    I disagree... There is always resentment, but Trump enabled full on aggression, due to inflaming and making the conflict far more dire than it has any right to be. When WoW is used as a recruitment tool for a conflict, it’s impossible for the conflict to be warranted. Then you have profiteers, pushing civil war, calling them selfs classic liberals like Tim Pool (videos average over 750k, larger than some network audiences) and Sargon of Akkad, is simply fake... it exists only in the magic of words.

    As an example, and don’t try to guess names, I would say I’ve only encountered 3 posters on this forum recently, that I would consider irredeemable. Everyone else is just obviously mislead...

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    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    Is that any different from left wingers defending rioters and looters?
    That depends, is your life worth property damage? Is someone else’s? Seriously... what are you fighting here? A civil war that exists on the lips of assholes, selling you doomsday rations?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  2. #13602
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Should have watched the RNC last week... they are fighting for their way of life, because an asshole billionaire as president can’t run on his record. I feel this is more people being mislead, than rotten.
    Well, they're not mutually exclusive, especially since anyone still being "misled" at this point wants to be, full stop. The way of life they're fighting for=protecting their place in a racial order that exclusively benefits them, and in which black and brown people getting murdered is a feature, not a bug. I guess it's nice that you prefer to take such a generous view, but people who refuse to live in peace with their neighbors are antithetical to civil society; their worldview is intrinsically, irredeemably destructive, and they've thrived on and abused most people's goodwill and desire for peace to last way WAY past the expiration date for such views. Enough. Excusing it is just enabling it at this point.
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  3. #13603
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I disagree... There is always resentment, but Trump enabled full on aggression, due to inflaming and making the conflict far more dire than it has any right to be. When WoW is used as a recruitment tool for a conflict, it’s impossible for the conflict to be warranted. Then you have profiteers, pushing civil war, calling them selfs classic liberals like Tim Pool (videos average over 750k, larger than some network audiences) and Sargon of Akkad, is simply fake... it exists only in the magic of words.

    As an example, and don’t try to guess names, I would say I’ve only encountered 3 posters on this forum recently, that I would consider irredeemable. Everyone else is just obviously mislead...
    I was trying to be nice. It’s gotten much worse, not just because of Trump though but going back to Tea Party politics rising in 2010 odd as well. It again created an ecosystem within which internet keyboard warrior tactics transcended into real life. Trolling became the way to rally support.

    It’s like how Donald Trump Jr now sees himself as some meme lord supreme, without the slightest hint of self awareness even.

    Don’t even get me started on Tim Pool, Sargon, Dave Rubin, Ben Shapiro, Andy Ngo and the rest of those concern trolls. They’re all despicable pieces of shit, riding the coattails of one grift to the next.

    Don’t get me wrong, there’s folk on the left who severely annoy me too. The Young Turks sometimes do some very good objective reporting, but their inflammatory style of, ‘XYZ GETS DESTROYED BY BLAH BLAH’ is so fucking annoying.

    If I wanted to watch outrage content, I wouldn’t be a progressive. I’d be one of the douchemachines on the right, who gets upset and angry 24/7.

  4. #13604
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    Well, they're not mutually exclusive, especially since anyone still being "misled" at this point wants to be, full stop. The way of life they're fighting for=protecting their place in a racial order that exclusively benefits them, and in which black and brown people getting murdered is a feature, not a bug. I guess it's nice that you prefer to take such a generous view, but people who refuse to live in peace with their neighbors are antithetical to civil society; their worldview is intrinsically, irredeemably destructive, and they've thrived on and abused most people's goodwill and desire for peace to last way WAY past the expiration date for such views. Enough. Excusing it is just enabling it at this point.
    Absolutely, but they are nothing. The true believers are one in what ever bunch of numbers I want to make up. Without Trump’s fear mongering, they are only the same doomsday prophets from your local street corner, handing out notes about what ever doomsday conspiracy got them hot and bothered today.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  5. #13605
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Two points to note: -

    1. No one with their head screwed on is defending anyone who’s rioting and looting. Not Biden. Not Harris. Not anyone in the Party. Not their voters who aren’t morons. Not anyone with the US’ best interests at heart.
    I guess US media isn't having best interests of US at heart given "In defense of looting" getting article on NPR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    And yet the vast majority of protesters were peaceful.
    Vast majority of police action does not result in deaths either, yet protests against them seem justified.

  6. #13606
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    I guess US media isn't having best interests of US at heart given "In defense of looting" getting article on NPR.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Vast majority of police action does not result in deaths either, yet protests against them seem justified.
    One report about a book author = us media... lol


    Then the irony of your second statement right after your first....... /facepalm....
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  7. #13607
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    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    Is that any different from left wingers defending rioters and looters? (...)
    Yes, unless rioters and looters are actually killing people in cold blood, which isn't really the case. You're comparing the destruction of property - which is not the primary goal of protests anyway - with double murder disguised as "self defense". Also, done by a teenager who shouldn't have been carrying a gun in the first place. And then, we instantly get the excuses of "well, the victim was a pedophile", culminating in someone saying that Rittenhouse could have a legitimate fear of being raped... Goddamn, I mean... I could *maybe* think of mentioning "well, he was a minor" as a terrible joke, but as a "reasonable" defense of his actions... no.

    In contrast, most people didn't hail the guy who shoot the militia person as a hero. No one was really digging through the victim's past, trying to find some criminal record and proudly state that "he was no angel... sure, that doesn't excuse it, but well, he did break a law twenty years ago and you know how it is with those thugs..." There might have been isolated cases of saying that the guy "deserved it", but you're always going to get those reactions, especially from a group that feels opressed and desperate. In this thread, the shooter was universally condemned as a murderer, with no one trying to excuse it as "self defense".

    And protests themselves are a result of decades of police failing to do their job properly. For a non-American, the way US police acts (incredibly trigger happy and yet responsible for nothing) is insane even without any racial angle. And this thread has made the latter more obvious to me, at which point it's pretty understandable that some people have had enough.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2020-09-03 at 11:24 PM.

  8. #13608
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    I guess US media isn't having best interests of US at heart given "In defense of looting" getting article on NPR.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Vast majority of police action does not result in deaths either, yet protests against them seem justified.
    You’re making sweet generalisations in bad faith, go back to the drawing board.

    1. One article =/= all US media.

    2. Police brutality is a serious and ongoing issue in the US. It’s also not new. Black people have been dying in questionable circumstances for a VERY VERY long time. It’s just that under Trump, things are far worse because the President is doing nothing to even provide lip service condemning these murders. So people have had enough. And before you get all outraged, that does not justify looting and rioting. But peaceful protesting is very common place in democratic nations. Maybe not Russia.

  9. #13609
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I was trying to be nice. It’s gotten much worse, not just because of Trump though but going back to Tea Party politics rising in 2010 odd as well. It again created an ecosystem within which internet keyboard warrior tactics transcended into real life. Trolling became the way to rally support.
    It was a perfect environment for Trump... he validates all conspiracy theory and idiocy of tea party, by simply being president.

    It’s interesting to think that in the 80s, Trump embodied everything wrong with greed is good 80s. Which he acknowledged by doing a skit with Gordon Gekko.

    Then the 90s brought us all the sex scandals, to the point where even when criticizing Bill Clinton, Trump literally said... “You Clinton with the women? Imagine me...”

    In the 00 Trump loses his shit over 9/11 and goes bat shit crazy to the right, complaining about Muslims dancing on rooftops.

    Then in the 10s, Trump boosted every conspiracy, from anti vaxxers to birthism and all the divisive conspiracy shit in between.

    Now, the fucker goes golfing and gives us “it is what it is” to 1000 dead Americans per day. Defunds pandemic response and halts Obama’s justice reform.

    Trump has been the embodiment of everything damaging the US for the last 40 years. The cause of the damage has been changing, but the man always at the forefront to exploit it, has been Trump. Trump has been a parasite on America for 40 years and nothing has changed about that...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  10. #13610
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    I guess US media isn't having best interests of US at heart given "In defense of looting" getting article on NPR.
    One Author's Controversial View: 'In Defense Of Looting'

    I noticed you snipped what is like, a big part of the headline to contextualize the content. But I guess it does make the strawman argument you are appearing to construct easier.

  11. #13611
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    It was a perfect environment for Trump... he validates all conspiracy theory and idiocy of tea party, by simply being president.

    It’s interesting to think that in the 80s, Trump embodied everything wrong with greed is good 80s. Which he acknowledged by doing a skit with Gordon Gekko.

    Then the 90s brought us all the sex scandals, to the point where even when criticizing Bill Clinton, Trump literally said... “You Clinton with the women? Imagine me...”

    In the 00 Trump loses his shit over 9/11 and goes bat shit crazy to the right, complaining about Muslims dancing on rooftops.

    Then in the 10s, Trump boosted every conspiracy, from anti vaxxers to birthism and all the divisive conspiracy shit in between.

    Now, the fucker goes golfing and gives us “it is what it is” to 1000 dead Americans per day. Defunds pandemic response and halts Obama’s justice reform.

    Trump has been the embodiment of everything damaging the US for the last 40 years. The cause of the damage has been changing, but the man always at the forefront to exploit it, has been Trump. Trump has been a parasite on America for 40 years and nothing has changed about that...
    Pretty much what has happened. But Trump is a result of GOP politics. He isn’t the driving force.
    Last edited by DingDongKing; 2020-09-03 at 11:10 PM.

  12. #13612
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Absolutely, but they are nothing. The true believers are one in what ever bunch of numbers I want to make up. Without Trump’s fear mongering, they are only the same doomsday prophets from your local street corner, handing out notes about what ever doomsday conspiracy got them hot and bothered today.
    Trump is a result, not a cause. The radical right has been fomenting this for decades, in ever more frantic, alarming, and dire terms, to the point where whatever you care to call the remaining base of the Republican party thinks Democrats are actual demons trying to rape their children, not to mention give all their hard-earned tax dollars to the browns and the poors (which many of them don't even realize they are, but w/e). "Nothing" was enough to give Trump his razor-thin affirmative action EC win once before, and can do it again; Kokolums is one of many of them waxing idiotic about "civil war;" this Rittenhouse killer is literally being compared to the Battle of Concord because they chronically misunderstand which side of history they're on. These people didn't start with Trump, and they aren't going away with him.
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  13. #13613
    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    Is that any different from left wingers defending rioters and looters?

    I mean they burned down a pawn shop in Minn. Then we find out there was a body found in there. They loot a pawn shop in St Lewis, oh and killed and elderly black man that showed up to his friends business when they had broken in. They killed an 8 year old child in Atlanta after burning down the Wendy's and setting up camp there.

    They now seem to be trying the block people in buildings and burning them down? Is that ok?

    Like I said earlier, I personally can see how the case is not cut and dry. I am not sure if he was in the right or not. I am sad that the events happened and that 2 people are dead.

    But your right to some "right wingers" they think he was justified.

    Just like to some "left wingers" the actions of the "peaceful protesters" are justified.

    Team sports at its best. People are dying for it now, peoples lives are being destroyed for it now. Everyone has to build the narrative so that their side is always right. The other side is always wrong. No middle ground. The other side can never have a point. If they have facts that dispute your ideas, ignore them. If they have thoughts different from yours, they are subhuman.
    Wait, point to me where people are defending rioters and looters. Arrest them all. But burning something down or looting a building isn't a reason for a death sentence at the hands of cops or anyone else.

    But, we go to look at Fox News, they are hailing Rittenhouse as a hero. They tried to do the same thing with James Fields as well, Heather Heyer's killer.

    You don't see anyone defending the guy that killed that domestic terrorist group member from Patriot Prayer, do you?

  14. #13614
    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    Is that any different from left wingers defending rioters and looters?

    I mean they burned down a pawn shop in Minn. Then we find out there was a body found in there. They loot a pawn shop in St Lewis, oh and killed and elderly black man that showed up to his friends business when they had broken in. They killed an 8 year old child in Atlanta after burning down the Wendy's and setting up camp there.
    Your conflation of protesters and rioters is telling.

    No one in the mainstream condones rioters. And no one condones the loss of life in that fire in Minnesota (those riots were started by a right wing provocateur though, iirc), and in St. Louis either. I notice how you don't mention that in St. Louis that same week, a protester was killed by police for.....BBQing and feeding protesters.

    None of us condone murder.

    What some of us CAN do is understand why riots are happening - because when you oppress a community, and put it under this much pressure, for literally 400 years......it's gonna boil over. And it's largely because of conditions conservatives have created - slavery, into Jim Crow, into policing, housing, and political policies that led to the ghettoization of black communities and the drug war.

    But of course, you insist on people taking responsibility! They must pull themselves up by the bootstraps even though we've been taking their boots for centuries! Ignore the systematic levers and pullies created to keep them oppressed and poor!

  15. #13615
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    I guess US media isn't having best interests of US at heart given "In defense of looting" getting article on NPR.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Vast majority of police action does not result in deaths either, yet protests against them seem justified.
    So basically an opinion article, is every US media person? Jesus christ, whatever turnips they pay you, it isn't enough for the mental gymnastics you use to come up with this bullshit.

  16. #13616
    I'll defend looting.

    Black people in America have been oppressed since the first one was forcibly brought here. They have tried everything to get disproportionate police stops and police brutality to cease. The have protested peacefully, tried to enact laws, voted, fought in our wars, spoke up, fought and even rioted. The last time they peacefully protested the very same people bitching about the looting were screaming, crying and boycotting kneeling. The same people bitching now are the same people screaming, crying and boycotting having to wear mask during a fucking pandemic as if that is real oppression.

    You guys have drowned out their voices, committed violence and rigged the system so fucking much, black people have literally no other option. Until you hear them and help them enact change our cities deserve to burn. We've made people desperate then forced them into a corner. We reap what we sow.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  17. #13617
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    I’ll also defend looting: property damage is not and never will be equivalent to oppression and murder. Nor do y’all actually give a shit about looting because we don’t hear a peep about capitalism. Rofl.

    The rioting could be prevented if you stopped the murders, but for some reason conservatives seem to only care about the former.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  18. #13618
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    I guess US media isn't having best interests of US at heart given "In defense of looting" getting article on NPR.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Vast majority of police action does not result in deaths either, yet protests against them seem justified.
    Did you not even read the title of the thing you're linking?

    One Author's Controversial View:
    One as in one person... like you're not even reading your own fucking shit.

    Also what do you have to say about the millions of stops and profiles made against black and brown peopel?

    What do you have to say about black people being 500% more likely to be punished with a drug crime than whites when whites are the majority who are more likely to both use and sell drugs yet black people and latinos end up making up the majority of those in prison for a crime that white people are more likely to commit.

    There is an entire justice system against blacks and latinos in this country and you know how many dies in jail? it is between 27 times the murder rate of the country for jails and 56 TIMES THE MURDER RATE at prisons.

    Almost 6000 deaths every year, and most prisoners are in prison for... non violent crimes many of them are there for crimes that white people never go to jail for, or very rarely go to jail for.

    You do know that whites get much lower sentences for same crime right? But let me guess.. that's not a problem for you because....... what they deserve it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    I'll defend looting.

    Black people in America have been oppressed since the first one was forcibly brought here. They have tried everything to get disproportionate police stops and police brutality to cease. The have protested peacefully, tried to enact laws, voted, fought in our wars, spoke up, fought and even rioted. The last time they peacefully protested the very same people bitching about the looting were screaming, crying and boycotting kneeling. The same people bitching now are the same people screaming, crying and boycotting having to wear mask during a fucking pandemic as if that is real oppression.

    You guys have drowned out their voices, committed violence and rigged the system so fucking much, black people have literally no other option. Until you hear them and help them enact change our cities deserve to burn. We've made people desperate then forced them into a corner. We reap what we sow.
    Also It is important to take a step back, and study history.

    What fucking revolution or major change has happened without violence and without riots?????

    Those seem to be the only things that force peopel to make changes.

    So if people want less rioting and looting, maybe they should give a fucking shit about human lives instead of a burning fucking pile of god damn bricks that insurance will pay for.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I’ll also defend looting: property damage is not and never will be equivalent to oppression and murder. Nor do y’all actually give a shit about looting because we don’t hear a peep about capitalism. Rofl.

    The rioting could be prevented if you stopped the murders, but for some reason conservatives seem to only care about the former.
    Did you see this bullshit!!!!


    How can they do that!!!

    Violence against property is never the answer, and why would they take down history like that?! Fucking crazy how violent mobs can just tear down history like that!
    Last edited by Themius; 2020-09-04 at 12:01 AM.

  19. #13619
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    One report about a book author = us media... lol


    Then the irony of your second statement right after your first....... /facepalm....
    I can't with these people.

  20. #13620
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I’ll also defend looting: property damage is not and never will be equivalent to oppression and murder. Nor do y’all actually give a shit about looting because we don’t hear a peep about capitalism. Rofl.

    The rioting could be prevented if you stopped the murders, but for some reason conservatives seem to only care about the former.
    Here's my issue with looting in the US; it gives the conservative nutjobs an in to exercise their 2A rights, the police are already a compromised institution as far as brutality against minorities is concerned, and there is this middle-ground of independent voters who are so on the fence social equality/inequality, that it may tip them. So it's risk/reward. And that's separate to the fact that I'm fundamentally opposed to looting/rioting.

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