Political beliefs you no longer have

[postman1782]

That's not a high bar to clear.

Except Trump has been shown to be the worst president in history, and Obama was in the upper tier of presidents, and Trump is worse than the one that only lived for a month during his presidency, named William Henry Harrison.

[Katie N]

I take it you have a viable alternative in mind?

The way we do it here.

[Gestopft]

I used to believe in the death penalty. I remember drawing a cartoon of Jesus in a jail cell saying something along the lines of "what do you mean I can only do 25-life for peoples' sins?!"

[DingDongKing]

I used to believe in the death penalty. I remember drawing a cartoon of Jesus in a jail cell saying something along the lines of "what do you mean I can only do 25-life for peoples' sins?!"

I still struggle mightily with that one when it comes to repeat sex offenders, pedophiles and so on. I don't know what the right answer is on it. They're such vile human beings, that I wonder how best to deal with it. Waters get muddied then as far as who's actually guilty and who's not etc.

[Felya]

Im getting the idea people havent even bothered reading terf stuff. Some of these comments xD

In case this is directed at me, this wasn’t my point. Do you think the far right has an accurate definition of feminism? I don’t think they do... I think to them, feminist is no different than cunt... I’m pointing out, that in any other circumstance, anyone calling them selfs feminist, would be ridiculed into oblivion. I found an instance of that not being the case... care to guess why that is?

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I believe that's a mere trend that will fade.
Like hippies that eventually got jobs and joined the suit and tie workers.
----
Labels...never believed in them much.

This is like people saying they don’t see color, when discussing race...



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Read that sentence. Read it again. Think about the issues as different factions in Game of Thrones.

I think the last episode has tainted your view of the show...

What I was trying to point out, is that there is a “faction” calling it self feminist, that another “faction“ detesting feminist at it’s core, is will to side with... there is one overlap that makes the blind rage over familist disappear.

On a similar note, I had an enlightening experience recently. I think I watched a demented right winger bitch about how new She’ra didn’t have big enough boobs and wasn’t like the loud, big hair version from the 80s. Within a short time of watching Ru Paul’s drag race. I think the big insecurity about far right YouTube, is that their vision of what a woman should look like, is identical to the vision of a Drag Queen.

[Gestopft]

I still struggle mightily with that one when it comes to repeat sex offenders, pedophiles and so on. I don't know what the right answer is on it. They're such vile human beings, that I wonder how best to deal with it. Waters get muddied then as far as who's actually guilty and who's not etc.

The way I think of it is to first ask what the purpose of the justice system is in regards to the worst offenders.

Is it rehabilitation? In the case of the average criminal, it should be I think, but for the most egregious crimes? For those that repeatedly flout the law? For violent extremists? Most people will agree that there are some people that we should not trust to re-enter society, so for the very worst offenders it cannot be rehabilitation.

What about punishment? We have punishments for crimes as a deterrent to criminal activity and as a penalty for breaking society's rules. And generally, the severity of the punishment increases with that of the crime- but we also have an 8th amendment forbidding cruel and unusual punishments (or the equivalent I assume most other developed nations have). The founders understood the base instincts of humankind, including the desire for vengeance, and made sure that those who find themselves accused or convicted of crimes still have rights- that even those who had harmed society would still have protection against the angry mob. Catering to our basest instincts does not make a moral or just society. So the justice system cannot be about punishing the guilty, for the 8th amendment precludes the severity of the punishment from scaling with the severity of the crime when it comes to the worst offenses. Additionally the death penalty is not a deterrent- no would-be felon has ever said to themselves "25-life would be just fine for committing this crime, but the death penalty? Meh...I'd better not."

So if the worst criminal offenders won't be rehabilitated, and are protected from cruel and unusual punishments, then what is the justice system for when it comes to those individuals? For me, it's about protecting society from those that have proven that they will not or cannot abide by the rules of society. Once a person is incarcerated for life, the purpose of the justice system has been met. To ask more- to ask that they be killed by the state- would be to cater to the basest instincts of society out of vengeance, and that is not what a moral or just society should do.

So yes, I can see the perspective that pedophiles, mass murderers, etc. don't deserve life. But for me it's not about what they do or don't deserve. Whether or not a murder *deserves* to be put to death (which is a subjective matter to begin with) is irrelevant- it's about what the purpose of the justice system should be, and what kind of country we want to be.

[PC2]

The way I think of it is to first ask what the purpose of the justice system is in regards to the worst offenders.

Is it rehabilitation? In the case of the average criminal, it should be I think, but for the most egregious crimes? For those that repeatedly flout the law? For violent extremists? Most people will agree that there are some people that we should not trust to re-enter society, so for the very worst offenders it cannot be rehabilitation.

What about punishment? We have punishments for crimes as a deterrent to criminal activity and as a penalty for breaking society's rules. And generally, the severity of the punishment increases with that of the crime- but we also have an 8th amendment forbidding cruel and unusual punishments (or the equivalent I assume most other developed nations have). The founders understood the base instincts of humankind, including the desire for vengeance, and made sure that those who find themselves accused or convicted of crimes still have rights- that even those who had harmed society would still have protection against the angry mob. Catering to our basest instincts does not make a moral or just society. So the justice system cannot be about punishing the guilty, for the 8th amendment precludes the severity of the punishment from scaling with the severity of the crime when it comes to the worst offenses. Additionally the death penalty is not a deterrent- no would-be felon has ever said to themselves "25-life would be just fine for committing this crime, but the death penalty? Meh...I'd better not."

So if the worst criminal offenders won't be rehabilitated, and are protected from cruel and unusual punishments, then what is the justice system for when it comes to those individuals? For me, it's about protecting society from those that have proven that they will not or cannot abide by the rules of society. Once a person is incarcerated for life, the purpose of the justice system has been met. To ask more- to ask that they be killed by the state- would be to cater to the basest instincts of society out of vengeance, and that is not what a moral or just society should do.

So yes, I can see the perspective that pedophiles, mass murderers, etc. don't deserve life. But for me it's not about what they do or don't deserve. Whether or not a murder *deserves* to be put to death (which is a subjective matter to begin with) is irrelevant- it's about what the purpose of the justice system should be, and what kind of country we want to be.

Every criminal can be fixed with enough knowledge so killing them after they have already been arrested is basically just an act of petty vengeance and barbarism. Permanently judging someone based on their darkest moment without a chance for redemption is incredibly unkind and uncharitable.

With that said we currently don't know how to fix the craziest criminals so we still need life sentences up until some point in the future where we can reasonably verify that a person has been rehabilitated and isn't a threat to society.

[NED funded]

In case this is directed at me, this wasn’t my point. Do you think the far right has an accurate definition of feminism? I don’t think they do... I think to them, feminist is no different than cunt... I’m pointing out, that in any other circumstance, anyone calling them selfs feminist, would be ridiculed into oblivion. I found an instance of that not being the case... care to guess why that is?

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This is like people saying they don’t see color, when discussing race...



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I think the last episode has tainted your view of the show...

What I was trying to point out, is that there is a “faction” calling it self feminist, that another “faction“ detesting feminist at it’s core, is will to side with... there is one overlap that makes the blind rage over familist disappear.

On a similar note, I had an enlightening experience recently. I think I watched a demented right winger bitch about how new She’ra didn’t have big enough boobs and wasn’t like the loud, big hair version from the 80s. Within a short time of watching Ru Paul’s drag race. I think the big insecurity about far right YouTube, is that their vision of what a woman should look like, is identical to the vision of a Drag Queen.

Nah dont worry its not directed at you. You are rather chill, the people here on the other hand (;╹⌓╹)

[Adam Jensen]

“Evidence”. You mean CNN and other leftist news isn’t reporting it? Of course they aren’t.

"News that I don't like is faaaaake!"

This shtick is getting old muto.

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Yeah okay. I’ve watched at least 25 protest and riots videos and half the people are not wearing them.

I've watched at least 50 protests and riots videos and half the people are wearing them.

I've also go the same citations as you have.

[JohnBrown1917]

You're a good reason why people give up on political beliefs.

Yeah, nothing like not believing in anything. Fuck improving society, I suppose?

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Except Trump has been shown to be the worst president in history, and Obama was in the upper tier of presidents, and Trump is worse than the one that only lived for a month during his presidency, named William Henry Harrison.

When even those in the upper "ranks" are terrible, you really got a problem.

[Monster Hunter]

Being part of the working class does not mean you get to contribute to the opression of other people.

Contribute the opression of other people? What are you on about?

[Mihalik]

I still struggle mightily with that one when it comes to repeat sex offenders, pedophiles and so on. I don't know what the right answer is on it. They're such vile human beings, that I wonder how best to deal with it. Waters get muddied then as far as who's actually guilty and who's not etc.

There's a much simpler way to think about this.

Are you okay with giving the state the power to take a human life (and we are not talking about use of force in an armed conflict or self defense or to neutralize an imminent threat to public safety)?

Taking into account institutional corruption, bias, procedural failure, racism and just human error. Are you in that scenario comfortable with giving the state power over life and death?

I'm not.

[Slant]

Actually, since Endus has me so pissed off right now, I'll say this, too... it's people like him that talk the talk but don't accomplish anything that is the reason why feminism still needs to be a thing. If people would celebrate their own holiness less and actually DID change the world, we'd be in a better place. But hey, go ahead and wave your flag if that makes you happy. Doesn't accomplish jack shit, but who am I to judge, eh? At least you tried. E for effort... Pathetic lip service.
[Infraction]

You have got to be joking! You can go infract my ass, this is unbelievable. Who let the clowns out? And of course there is no fucking list of mods to contact, you have to be lucky that someone is online, too.

[DingDongKing]

There's a much simpler way to think about this.

Are you okay with giving the state the power to take a human life (and we are not talking about use of force in an armed conflict or self defense or to neutralize an imminent threat to public safety)?

Taking into account institutional corruption, bias, procedural failure, racism and just human error. Are you in that scenario comfortable with giving the state power over life and death?

I'm not.

Pretty much where I’m at. As I said, the struggle is more with the people who are guilty, but I just cannot give so much power to the Governments. I don’t believe in less Government, but I do believe too much power can corrupt a system.

[Rozz]

Considering discussion keeps rounding forbidden topics, this is closed.