Revendreth doesNOT mean a soul is redeemable or did nothing wrong

[Zulkhan]

Though I'm kind of skeptical of any system where any Kyrian can essentially wait out a person's death that they can astrally sense and then toss them into the Maw to effectively burn in hell with no means of extraction for all time, and there's no way to see this has happened since we only learn it from Uther after he switches sides. Sure, this time it was Arthas, but they could do it to anyone they have a beef with.

Isn't the whole point of Bastion to purge the aspirants of all aspects of their previous lives just to prevent that, to make them as unbiased as possible? I would say the situation of Uther and Devos is probably unprecedented, hence the whole fuss about it.

[Aucald]

Doesn't make sense, because omnicide would mean starvation for the shadowlands, thus meaning they are a threat.

Given that some elements of the Shadowlands involve reincarnation and rebirth, it would seem not. Life apparently excels at finding ways to persist in the WoW universe.

Meaningless, if there is no consistency the whole system is pointless and I don't buy this whole whishy washy system for redemption thing the arbiter decides they go straight to hell.

Either you do it thoroughly in revendreth, or don't do it all.

There really isn't a matter of "buying it," it's quite literally the stated purpose of the Arbirter and the criteria for judgment to the Maw - that's just a fact of this narrative universe. I mean, the Arbiter could be fallible for all we know - given the fact that's she currently been made inactive by the Jailer it would seem to be the case. The Maw is also not inescapable since we literally escape it ourselves. How the story goes from there is anyone's guess.

[Combatbutler]

There really isn't a matter of "buying it," it's quite literally the stated purpose of the Arbirter and the criteria for judgment to the Maw - that's just a fact of this narrative universe. I mean, the Arbiter could be fallible for all we know - given the fact that's she currently been made inactive by the Jailer it would seem to be the case. The Maw is also not inescapable since we literally escape it ourselves. How the story goes from there is anyone's guess.

Which is a braindead concept, but then again the whole shadowlands narrative is almost as shitty as bfa so far.

Given that some elements of the Shadowlands involve reincarnation and rebirth, it would seem not. Life apparently excels at finding ways to persist in the WoW universe.

Cheap cop out is what it is.

[Avellon]

The veil was lifted and we'll all get to see the truth behind the curtains (Shadowlands' masquerade of lies).

Or probably just more horrible writing.

[Combatbutler]

Or probably just more horrible writing.

The whole thing starts with people being kidnapped to be tortured in the maw, so they can be freed later on, instead of killing them and then torturing them in the maw, making it pretty much impossible to free them, you be the judge of the start into this xpack.

[Avellon]

The whole thing starts with people being kidnapped to be tortured in the maw, so they can be freed later on, instead of killing them and then torturing them in the maw, making it pretty much impossible to free them, you be the judge of the start into this xpack.

That sounds nonsensical but I'd have to play through the whole thing to see if it makes any sense in the end.
But as it stands from all the lore videos I've seen on Shadowlands, it is a complete nest of lies.

[Combatbutler]

That sounds nonsensical but I'd have to play through the whole thing to see if it makes any sense in the end.

Spoiler it does not.

[Super Dickmann]

Isn't the whole point of Bastion to purge the aspirants of all aspects of their previous lives just to prevent that, to make them as unbiased as possible? I would say the situation of Uther and Devos is probably unprecedented, hence the whole fuss about it.

Yeah, no argument there. I wonder if dunking the dude there had something to do with screwing up the balance, since like others have theorized it does seem that it's not intended for people to go in the Maw all that much in the first place, possibly to starve the Jailor of anima.

[Zulkhan]

Yeah, no argument there. I wonder if dunking the dude there had something to do with screwing up the balance, since like others have theorized it does seem that it's not intended for people to go in the Maw all that much in the first place, possibly to starve the Jailor of anima.

It's undoubtely interesting what was shown in the Bastion cinematic, since we know almost for sure that Arthas wasn't likely meant to be thrown right into the Maw (as we instead kind of thought since Edge of Night, even before we even knew what the Maw was) which further supports the idea that even Sylvanas' experience in the afterlife, as yet another soul meant suffer in that place forever, may have been not entirely authentic. There's to understand who exactly the Jailer is and whether what he wants and what Sylvanas herself wants truly align.

[Super Dickmann]

It's undoubtely interesting what was shown in the Bastion cinematic, since we know almost for sure that Arthas wasn't likely meant to be thrown right into the Maw (as we instead kind of thought since Edge of Night, even before we even knew what the Maw was) which further supports the idea that even Sylvanas' experience in the afterlife, as yet another soul meant suffer in that place forever, may have been not entirely authentic. There's to understand who exactly the Jailer is and whether what he wants and what Sylvanas herself wants truly align.

I maintain that I don't think Sylvanas will have any nuance in her motive - they've been way too far in dunking on her in both in-story comments by Voss and her bit in Shadows Rising as well as interviews. I hope I'm wrong, but I won't hold my breath. That said, I agree that she was hijacked there and this was mostly a ploy by the Jailor to get an agent of his to help continue rattling the proverbial cage and I am morbidly fascinated in how they tie her various decisions together from that take and where exactly she fully commits. If there's a separation in their motives, I think it'll be in that end bit of Shadows Rising.

Sylvanas wants to take down the afterlife out of principle, because she could end up in a place like the Maw in the first place and a power is a means to that end. From what we know so far, the Jailor wants to revenge himself on those who cast him down given the Primus' last message and regain his station, then tip the balance of death to overcome the other powers by nabbing Azeroth. While Sylvanas would want to dismantle the afterlife entirely, the Jailor would want to expand the Maw to encompass everything, whereas she's just using it for the powerboost and doesn't want to keep it anymore than she does any other afterlife since they're all forced upon her and by extension everyone else (hence 'this world is a prison').

[Rhlor]

Revendreth is where inherently good characters that did bad things go to to get redeemed.
That's honestly what I believe. And that's why we're seeing Kael'thas and Garrosh there. They were genuinely good people before you know what happened.

Revendreth is the place where the sire drains all the anima from a soul and then throws it to the maw

[Aucald]

Revendreth is the place where the sire drains all the anima from a soul and then throws it to the maw

Sire Denathrius sending the anima to the Maw isn't actually intended. The excess anima drained from Revendreth's charges is supposed to go back to the other realms, which is a plot point where the Winter Queen sends you to Revendreth to talk to Denathrius to determine why he hasn't delivered any to any of the other realms suffering from the Drought. You find out in the Revendreth questline that Denathrius is allied with the Jailer and sending the anima to the Maw instead of the other Covenants.

[Rhlor]

Sire Denathrius sending the anima to the Maw isn't actually intended. The excess anima drained from Revendreth's charges is supposed to go back to the other realms, which is a plot point where the Winter Queen sends you to Revendreth to talk to Denathrius to determine why he hasn't delivered any to any of the other realms suffering from the Drought. You find out in the Revendreth questline that Denathrius is allied with the Jailer and sending the anima to the Maw instead of the other Covenants.

the sire is the ruler of revendreth what he does i guess is legal since he rules absolutely, it is as if saudi arabia only wants to send oil only to china and nothing to the west

[Aucald]

the sire is the ruler of revendreth what he does i guess is legal since he rules absolutely, it is as if saudi arabia only wants to send oil only to china and nothing to the west

I don't think legality really enters into it, though. Denathrius throwing his lot in with the Jailer is essentially him abandoning his sacred charge and throwing in with the enemy of the Shadowlands. No one is going to be okay with that position, nor should they be.

[Rhlor]

I don't think legality really enters into it, though. Denathrius throwing his lot in with the Jailer is essentially him abandoning his sacred charge and throwing in with the enemy of the Shadowlands. No one is going to be okay with that position, nor should they be.

so i guess its an imperialist war to steal natural resources from a sovereign state

[Aucald]

so i guess its an imperialist war to steal natural resources from a sovereign state

More like a corrupt government official abandoning his pledge to his previous allies and throwing his lot and resources in with a rising tyrannical regime.

[Rhlor]

More like a corrupt government official abandoning his pledge to his previous allies and throwing his lot and resources in with a rising tyrannical regime.

as far as I remember each covenant is independent and with its own governments

[Aucald]

as far as I remember each covenant is independent and with its own governments

To a degree, but they are also interdependent and serve Oribos and the Purpose as part of a sacred charge to uphold a cosmic balance and the system of Life and Death in the Warcraft metacosm.

[formerShandalay]

the sire is the ruler of revendreth what he does i guess is legal since he rules absolutely, it is as if saudi arabia only wants to send oil only to china and nothing to the west

He is beholden to the Arbiter and Oribos though. So.. more like a King that rules one country for an Emperor. He is absolute in his power over his people, but may still never do anything against his liege.

[Frimelda]

Weird question but I wanted to ask. So I do enjoy the aspect of this covenant in making sinners repent/bring out their dirty laundry, is there a class/spec that would fit this kind of thing as well? I like making things fit together.