The Night Elves/borne discussion thread

[Beloren]

@Sharnie786 Having a purpose of uniting the elves doesn’t mean they’ll achieve it in wow’s lifetime

It’s a goal to work towards and part of what they are about is achieving that as well as restoring their ancient civilization.

It is a good way to make use of the nightborne/Highborne issue I feel both fans would welcome. Another reason this premise works is that Nightborne and night elves of the broken isles along with Highborne are the two cross faction groups with the most positive relationship to build on alongside a shared heritage/people group.

And yes, I did mention I’d expect night elves to get some options from Nightborne.

[Alanar]

@EnigmAddict

I thought the subject was done, people are on ignore list and I was done with the fanatic way of some poeple here.

But since you gave me a mention I will say the same since day one.

Yea so Lets face it.. Nightborne are horde and it seems again that is the main issue. I dont care for that, if we here to gave a balance between the factions.. because the alliance want what the horde has. I still dont know if this is realy needed in the broad picture. Sure overlapping happends alot, but I stated the issue with nightborne that they have almost no customization.

The wish to gave night elves stars or arcane hair or what ever stuff that is nightborne is not the way to go. The new customization night elves got.. clearly show their direction and I think that its fine to give all elves their own kit. So if we are talking about that I would dissagree to share at this point, until allied races are touched again.

I am not against a shen delar district and some repre of night elves mages in their(new?) City in the future, but I dont see it any broader then that sorry. I still find it silly that we need to find a balance for some reason only because they are not horde.

[yana]

im not sure they will have the same "trade" as blood elves and velves had, 10 k years of seperation vs a decade or two.

but speaking of costumization two shades of night warrior eyes are better than one!
comment or like here :

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...-change/630678

[Alanar]

@Sharnie786 Having a purpose of uniting the elves doesn’t mean they’ll achieve it in wow’s lifetime

It’s a goal to work towards and part of what they are about is achieving that as well as restoring their ancient civilization.

It is a good way to make use of the nightborne/Highborne issue I feel both fans would welcome. Another reason this premise works is that Nightborne and night elves of the broken isles along with Highborne are the two cross faction groups with the most positive relationship to build on alongside a shared heritage/people group.

And yes, I did mention I’d expect night elves to get some options from Nightborne.

You know, hes right in a way. Its that it doesnt realy need to be resolved in the first place, I mean striving for peace between the playable faction in what you are suggesting should also not realy be a goal right now. Its wishfull thinking atm, which is fine, but looking at the nightborne and their need of some one to help them step out of their comfortzone or to become friends to walk again in the big wide world are the blood elves. They choose their allies in Legion and thats not realy long time ago in elven years so things are still realy fresh and she is even in the horde council now.
Forging an elven alliance between all elven races or atleast arrange a meeting type of thing to see where everyone stand is something that I could find interesting, but for now it seems very forced and unneeded. Its healing time right now.. in their factions.

[Beloren]

@EnigmAddict

I thought the subject was done, people are on ignore list and I was done with the fanatic way of some poeple here.

But since you gave me a mention I will say the same since day one.

Yea so Lets face it.. Nightborne are horde and it seems again that is the main issue. I dont care for that, if we here to gave a balance between the factions.. because the alliance want what the horde has. I still dont know if this is realy needed in the broad picture. Sure overlapping happends alot, but I stated the issue with nightborne that they have almost no customization.

The wish to gave night elves stars or arcane hair or what ever stuff that is nightborne is not the way to go. The new customization night elves got.. clearly show their direction and I think that its fine to give all elves their own kit. So if we are talking about that I would dissagree to share at this point, until allied races are touched again.

I am not against a shen delar district and some repre of night elves mages in their(new?) City in the future, but I dont see it any broader then that sorry. I still find it silly that we need to find a balance for some reason only because they are not horde.

Well I’m very much against things like Shen’dralar districts and what not. I don’t think the developers want that for the Darnassians, but they also don’t want to get rid of that aspect of the night elves just like they didn’t want to get rid of high elves.

It’s better to tie that Highborne remnant with the horde instead and give it life and purpose via the horde than the other way round.

It sets the centre and focus through the horde instead of the alliance. Allowing at least one elven narrative to be horde based even if it has some alliance based race group in tow. The opposite happened with the high elf/blood elf thing. For a change let the Nightborne be attracting alliance elves and spin or drive the narrative towards a horde race rather than towards the humans like us happened a lot with the blood elves.

Let Darnassus or any new Darnassians place be a forest elf home as it should be. Other types of night elves should be focused on factions relevant to what they do and let them do their stuff there.

The Illidari night elves do their stuff with the Illidari and the Highborne Arcane based night elves should be doing stuff with the Nightborne and people like Ravenmoon and Mace can have all the arcane involvement they want but with night elves working with/for a horde centric race that literally exists for this purpose. It’s crazy to try and put the Nightborne on the alliance or turn the Darnassians into them - it’s just wanting our pie, so rather make them work towards a Nightborne spearheaded directive.

It’s all Kaldorei based, but instead it’s Nightborne centric and the Nightborne are the main faction supporting it. They can have an equally integral role, but it’s is on Nightborne home turf and it expands Nightborne influence without taking them from the horde or merging the Darnassians with them who really are a forest based group and should remain a more feral forest faction.

[ravenmoon]

It’s crazy to try and put the Nightborne on the alliance or turn the Darnassians into them - it’s just wanting our pie, so rather make them work towards a Nightborne spearheaded directive.
.

Nothing crazy about that, it's just what you don't want, so it seems crazy to you.

And I'm not seeing anyone applaud you for your ideas, you called your horde faves in, and not one of them are in support, they're just being nice about it.

It seems you just want the horde to be at the centre of whatever elven stuff is going on concerning magic, such developments could easily be alliance driven or not involve the Nightborne at all, as parts written for the Highborne could continue.


I don't see what makes your objective better than anyone else's.

[Tanaria]

It's been 2 and a half years since the Nightborne joined the Horde. Blizzard has kept them on the Horde in every patch since BFA released, with Valtrois being one of our champions and Oculeth maintaining the portals.
Then with Valtrois and Rexxar working to break Priscilla out of prison as well as Oculeth helping create a portal back to the AU Draenor to recruit the Mag'har, then Thalyssra and her Arcanists joining Blightcaller and Lor'themar to take to the seas with the Alliance in hot pursuit.

Blizzard will NEVER simply take a race and put it on the opposing faction. It never happened. They toyed around with the Blood Elves joining the Alliance in MoP, but it didn't happen.

Enigma is coming up with ideas that suit everyone, but still keep Nightborne on the Horde and working with the Blood Elves and maintaining those positive relations.
The Nightborne are Horde, Ravenmoon - it's high time you actually accept that fact. Like I say, 2 and a half years and still not accepting it. It's not Horde fans that are the problem here.

[Beloren]

You know, hes right in a way. Its that it doesnt realy need to be resolved in the first place, I mean striving for peace between the playable faction in what you are suggesting should also not realy be a goal right now. Its wishfull thinking atm, which is fine, but looking at the nightborne and their need of some one to help them step out of their comfortzone or to become friends to walk again in the big wide world are the blood elves. They choose their allies in Legion and thats not realy long time ago in elven years so things are still realy fresh and she is even in the horde council now.
Forging an elven alliance between all elven races or atleast arrange a meeting type of thing to see where everyone stand is something that I could find interesting, but for now it seems very forced and unneeded. Its healing time right now.. in their factions.

I felt the Nightborne had no real goals, it was save Suramar, now Suramar has been saved, their only purpose seems to be becoming an allied race. They're not the only allied race in that boat, many are, but I can at least suggest something for them.

The idea on the table for their purpose, is not trying to bring peace between the factions, but unite the elves and save their race, restore their ancient civilisation, and play the role of big brothers in the faction (read my initial idea proposal in full here: It's just written from the perspective of an alliance highborne for Mace & Ravenmoon's benefit ) . Where do you go after legion? With the elven race you know nearly extinct, and split across factions intent on killing themselves - the situation is urgent if the race is to surive? your pride and prestige not what it once, but you're still set in the initial kaldorei directive before the Legion invaded which was knowledge and progress, nobility - a high calling that saw development that is unequalled 10,000 years later in what remains, even amongst your elven kin. That's gotta be heartbreaking, especially when you see what's become of the kaldorei through this. You've also been cooped up for so long, and while you made do, but nearly got annihilated by being too dependent on the Nightwell, you'd be bursting to press forward with a drive and enthusiasm a long rest stimulates.

You know who else is on your wavelength? quel'dorei night elves, yes, Highborne - the way they record the likes of Evenshade and Estulan, they long to restore the glory of arcane, the pride of their caste and prove their worth - they're both likely to look down on elven squabbles and look beyond to a bigger picture of restoration and revitalising of their ancient but glorious civilisation - it's the mindset I believe they'll have and the exact sort of thing to push them to work together to recreate their former paradise on the broken isle, and a partnership with the Highborne is exactly the sort of start that can pave the way to the unification they hope to achieve.

Now ofc as Sharnie said, they're not actually going to get that, but the purpose of this is the story of their journey and efforts/moves to achieve that...it could be "their" thing, the high/nightborne thing - just like you have a high/void thing and a high/blood elf thing. This can be what the Nightborne are trying to do on the home front for themselves and for their culture /civilisation, and who else to be on the same page as them than the very group on the alliance who share the exact same experience and outlook - i.e. the Highborne.

They can do a lot with that, i can imagine it would be a boner for night elf fans, but also create interesting enough intrigue for other elf interactions, but it at least sets the Nightborne on a path they're leading. The void leves have one with the void and the alliance, trying to bring the blood elves back into the fold under the alliance etc, well, the nightborne need one too, that's not just based on visiting Silvermoon and pleasing blood elves. If void elves get to have an identity and purpose, Nightborne should do that's not dependent on their fellow faction allies but is an initiative of their own that fits their race, culture, history, heritage and characteristics as outlined in our experience of them.

Tbh, I don't see what else would be better for their goal to be They'd be thinking of their future, what it means to be who they are.. what is their identity? The horde? the blood elves? or the ancient civilisation they represent and have continued for 10k years? To me atm, they feel empty, and are just sidekicks that have no other purpose. Every side kick seems to have a racial direction - even dwarves have the whole titan thing, gnomes got the restoring Gnomeragan (then find Mechagon) thing

Every race should have one.

- - - Updated - - -

It's been 2 and a half years since the Nightborne joined the Horde. Blizzard has kept them on the Horde in every patch since BFA released, with Valtrois being one of our champions and Oculeth maintaining the portals.
Then with Valtrois and Rexxar working to break Priscilla out of prison as well as Oculeth helping create a portal back to the AU Draenor to recruit the Mag'har, then Thalyssra and her Arcanists joining Blightcaller and Lor'themar to take to the seas with the Alliance in hot pursuit.

Blizzard will NEVER simply take a race and put it on the opposing faction. It never happened. They toyed around with the Blood Elves joining the Alliance in MoP, but it didn't happen.

Enigma is coming up with ideas that suit everyone, but still keep Nightborne on the Horde and working with the Blood Elves and maintaining those positive relations.
The Nightborne are Horde, Ravenmoon - it's high time you actually accept that fact. Like I say, 2 and a half years and still not accepting it. It's not Horde fans that are the problem here.

I know, he gets to really taste and be a part of all the aspects of the pre-sundering night elf group he desires, in a way that allows him to keep faction loyalty but work for the greater good - which is exact same mindset I've read him write about several times. But it's fine when it's coming from him and based on the alliance group instead in the driving seat, but all of a sudden, flip it, so that the Nightborne are in the lead and suddenly he's not so keen.

But what does he expect, the nightborne ARE the entire allied race created for that part of the night elves, whereas the Highborne that joined the Darnassians are just a small faction, it's totally logical that it's the Highborne that would be seeking and open to working with the Nightborne and would have to go to them than the other way round, and would be willing to do stuff like that if they felt it would save their people, prevent their race's extinction and help mitigate the senseless killing they're supposed to be a bit wiser and above, not to mention they'd love the idea of restoring their civilisation they think is o amazing and their reputation they know is in tatters but their dignity , nobility and pride demand they restore - it's exactly the sort of thing they'd do.. but the only reason I think he doesn't like it is because it brings his favourite night elf faction to work with a horde race and it's a horde race setting the pace, and he just hates the horde.

He expects blizzard to take time to write up separate roles for Darnassian highborne group and make them more prominent, but either ignore the nightborne or have them switch over to the kaldorei - when they can't even manage roles for most of their races. It makes much more sense that the smaller highborne group to Nightborne (the actual race) centric, rather than change the Darnassians or faction change the Nightborne.

[Alanar]

I felt the Nightborne had no real goals, it was save Suramar, now Suramar has been saved, their only purpose seems to be becoming an allied race. They're not the only allied race in that boat, many are, but I can at least suggest something for them.

Tbh, I don't see what else would be better for their goal to be They'd be thinking of their future, what it means to be who they are.. what is their identity? The horde? the blood elves? or the ancient civilisation they represent and have continued for 10k years? To me atm, they feel empty, and are just sidekicks that have no other purpose. Every side kick seems to have a racial direction - even dwarves have the whole titan thing, gnomes got the restoring Gnomeragan (then find Mechagon) thing

Listen, you are reaching for headcanon where not everyone will agree with. In my opinion, their goal was super obvious at the end of Legion.. Venture into the world, what have we missed last 10 k years?.(that already is kinda broad). but they kinda needed friends to help them cross that line. They did find friends in the blood elves and they like eachother.. the horde came afther, the chemistry they have together is real and reaching on a personal level even. Now with a renewed purpose (as in their gameintro) they followed them and the horde, to help them fight the war and now they are rewarded for their efforts and loyalty and their leader is chosen to be a council member for the horde and now we are here.. waiting on shadowlands to see what happends next...

Maybe you missed that.., but saying there is no goal, makes me question your idea even more Enigmaaddict.

The horde is a much better and less toxic place now that Sylvanas is gone.. They have a decent base and Thalyssra and her nightborne are there at that moment to help built the horde a new future. She fits right in and she brought a whole era of arcane and pre sundering elves to the table.. something the alliance realy realy wants... if they are so empty, why are people asking for them to be on the alliance side.

So with this info given to us.. why would thalyssra even care or bother what the Kal'dorei do at the other side of the continent?



OT:
Now that I think about it.. wouldn't it be hilarious now that Tyrande is in the shadowlands.. that morbent and hes wanna be highborne mages take control as a deseperate attempt to restore their once proud nation at all cost?

[Beloren]

Listen, you are reaching for headcanon where not everyone will agree with. In my opinion, their goal was super obvious at the end of Legion.. Venture into the world, what have we missed last 10 k years?.. but they kinda needed friends to help them cross that line. They did find friends in the blood elves and they like eachother.. the horde came afther, the chemistry they have together is real and reaching on a personal level even. Now with a renewed purpose (as in their gameintro) they followed them and the horde, to help them fight the war and now they are rewarded for their efforts and loyalty and their leader is chosen to be a council member for the horde and now we are here.. waiting on shadowlands to see what happends next.

Maybe you missed that.., but saying there is no goal, makes me question your idea even more Enigmaaddict.

The horde is a much better and less toxic place now that Sylvanas is gone.. They have a decent base and Thalyssra and her nightborne are there at that moment to help built the horde a new future. She fits right in.

So with this info given to us.. why would thalyssra even care or bother what the Kal'dorei do at the other side of the continent?

I didn't miss anything, racial lore, stories progress, purpose are a bit weak atm. To boost this for them, part of what the Nightborne want to do is to unite the elves (and save their race from extinction) and restore their civilisation starting with the broken isles where they are, not half way across the continent.

In my proposal the Highborne from Kalimdor seek them out and join their effort, not the other way around.

I think it is more meaningful long term goal than just wandering the world. That objective is an adventurer based one that is added into the lines of every race to give the player characters purpose as an adventurer rather than a primary directive for a race.

I just felt they needed something more compelling, I think you would feel the same if you were interested in boosting or promoting a race.

I’m a big fan of races having non faction related goals. They are their own peoples and shouldn’t be defined solely by existing in a faction.

But be warned I’m one of these people that doesn’t like the way faction identity has gone. I feel it’s made blizzard a bit lazy on the races and instead of giving us race stories prefer to write the horde as a race and the alliance as a race.

The races seem to be losing individuality and becoming only about the faction, so I’m going to obviously propose objectives and pursuits for blood elves and nightborne that focus more on them as a race with their own goals as the prinary focus not how to involve their faction or boost the identity of their faction because I think the faction identity has eaten up that unique race identity and purpose. And I’d love to see that restored and have a race centred expansion with race campaigns that focus on the race.

[Tanaria]

The thing is though - who do you prioritise and how does that work in an expansion setting?
I mean, having an expansion dedicated to the Orcs and Humans, as an example - it's basically, play Orc or Human or fall asleep and then, how and where do we stop their meaningful progress to them give spotlight to say, Tauren and Night Elves. Then it's play one of these or fall asleep.

Race centred expansions would be hard because you'd leave a point in a races' story to move onto the others. Blizzard have got the heritage armours that have long questlines and these work, for that bit of racial pride.

[Beloren]

The thing is though - who do you prioritise and how does that work in an expansion setting?
I mean, having an expansion dedicated to the Orcs and Humans, as an example - it's basically, play Orc or Human or fall asleep and then, how and where do we stop their meaningful progress to them give spotlight to say, Tauren and Night Elves. Then it's play one of these or fall asleep.

Race centred expansions would be hard because you'd leave a point in a races' story to move onto the others. Blizzard have got the heritage armours that have long questlines and these work, for that bit of racial pride.

Yeh, it will be hard, I was just writing about it here:

But I think it's worth them doing it, and doing it well, there is a guy that responded saying they had Life Quests. I am hoping that they are able to manage a large bunch of race stories almost in the form of campaigns, can be a way to incrementally tell stories, but I was hoping they'd make a major shift in focus from singular character driven stories or faction story, to race ones instead. like the race campaigns continuing throughout expansions with new objectives and quests added each patch.

I don't know, it's just a hope many share, we can second guess blizz forever on what they would do.

But yeh, What you say is exactly why I want race campaigns, because in BFA, until 8.2, i had no interest in anything, it was about trolls and humans, and it was yawn for me till something I wanted showed up. With campaigns the point is a race gets something all the time.. Campaigns would be a prolonged and continuous way to do this, and feasibly.. but they can't do one for all 26 races, they are going to have to combine a few and merge them somehow.

It's quite feasible, and possible with a main expansion story, even one that is character driven, they just have to be willing to make it.

[Alanar]

I didn't miss anything, racial lore, stories progress, purpose are a bit weak atm. To boost this for them, part of what the Nightborne want to do is to unite the elves (and save their race from extinction) and restore their civilisation starting with the broken isles where they are, not half way across the continent.

We did that, we are passed that now and some venture out in the world while some stay behind or make quick visits, there is nothing that holds them back.

The races seem to be losing individuality and becoming only about the faction, so I’m going to obviously propose objectives and pursuits for blood elves and nightborne that focus more on them as a race with their own goals as the prinary focus not how to involve their faction or boost the identity of their faction because I think the faction identity has eaten up that unique race identity and purpose. And I’d love to see that restored and have a race centred expansion with race campaigns that focus on the race.

Yes so, I agree the focus should be on the races. We have gotten more and more races and the story should be about them as well. It's hard because ,if they focus on them, we might lose out on other stuff and it will all end up in huge dissapointments That said I would rather see the night elves, blood elves, nightborne time to develope themselves and where they stand afther everything and how they are doing. It's starting to get kinda blurry with all the elves and some are just missing flatout lore (void elves) How is silvermoon doing? So night elves just wandering in stormwind till tree is fixed? it's annoying.

[Ardenaso]

I mention Lightbound orcs cos it's in your signature.

well Lightbound Orcs are the polar opposite of Alterac Humans, so yeah

my mistake, by "moon temples" I mean the Elune priestesses and their iron clad warriors like the Wardens; the priestesses, priestesses of the moon, the watchers, and the wardens don't look "feral" to me

[ravenmoon]

@Tanaria @EnigmAddict

I shouldn’t need to play a horde toon to capture the fantasy of a powerful arcane wielding night elf that has been a core part of that race’s most pivotal lore period from the very start. One which I’ve wanted to be cool and restored emphatically since wow begun and I first read the descriptions of their very wondrous civilization and good accomplishments.

I’m sorry. I shouldn’t need to rely on the horde Nightborne for it to make sense or be relevant.

Provision should be there for this to be a meaningful and identifiable Night elf related thing. Regardless of who the Nightborne are or what they are about.

If blood elves can have a powerful light fantasy,a powerful ranger fantasy in addition to a powerful magical fantasy.

I don’t see why alliance night elves cannot have a powerful arcane one for their group in the current time. Seeing it is an established and well loved part of their lore not something pulled out last minute out of thin air (Night warrior *cough - which I would remind blizzard that the reason it wasn’t universally well received is because of the failure to make existing assets like Highborne and sentinels look as good as we expect them and instead choosing to go for something new, which while we like new always seems cheap when introduced in that manner).


@Tuor , @Isilrien , @Moonrage I’m not asking for the Darnassians to become all about arcane magic like the Nightborne are (I never was), I’m asking for the arcane wielding night elves to be a relevant and powerful Night elf faction of their own, like the Illidari are for fel. They don’t have to take over or even be involved with the main Darnassians group, not be holding hands all the time.

But they need to be something relevant and awe inspiring, cool and powerful in their own right. Who wants one of their favourite fantasies to be a dead or irrelevant group of people? I don’t need them to be best buddies with the druids. (That could be nice, but it’s not what I want the most).

The druids and sentinels don’t need to be the only cool and interesting or powerful night elf factions. It won’t kill the horde for the night elven arcane using faction to also be on the map, and Nightborne collaboration shouldn’t be the only option. @Mace , @Sharnie786 , @Astranea I’m sure can agree with me on this. Even Tanaria if she’s honest can at least relate to what I’m saying.

[Beloren]

@Tanaria @EnigmAddict

I shouldn’t need to play a horde toon to capture the fantasy of a powerful arcane wielding night elf that has been a core part of that race’s most pivotal lore period from the very start. One which I’ve wanted to be cool and restored emphatically since wow begun and I first read the descriptions of their very wondrous civilization and good accomplishments.

I’m sorry. I shouldn’t need to rely on the horde Nightborne for it to make sense or be relevant.

Provision should be there for this to be a meaningful and identifiable Night elf related thing. Regardless of who the Nightborne are or what they are about.

If blood elves can have a powerful light fantasy,a powerful ranger fantasy in addition to a powerful magical fantasy.

I don’t see why alliance night elves cannot have a powerful arcane one for their group in the current time. Seeing it is an established and well loved part of their lore not something pulled out last minute out of thin air (Night warrior *cough - which I would remind blizzard that the reason it wasn’t universally well received is because of the failure to make existing assets like Highborne and sentinels look as good as we expect them and instead choosing to go for something new, which while we like new always seems cheap when introduced in that manner).


@Tuor , @Isilrien , @Moonrage I’m not asking for the Darnassians to become all about arcane magic like the Nightborne are (I never was), I’m asking for the arcane wielding night elves to be a relevant and powerful Night elf faction of their own, like the Illidari are for fel. They don’t have to take over or even be involved with the main Darnassians group, not be holding hands all the time.

But they need to be something relevant and awe inspiring, cool and powerful in their own right. Who wants one of their favourite fantasies to be a dead or irrelevant group of people? I don’t need them to be best buddies with the druids. (That could be nice, but it’s not what I want the most).

The druids and sentinels don’t need to be the only cool and interesting or powerful night elf factions. It won’t kill the horde for the night elven arcane using faction to also be on the map, and Nightborne collaboration shouldn’t be the only option.

You don’t see it do you! ? You got your desire, in the Nightborne – the fantasy, the detail, even the city. But it’s on the horde, so you don’t want.

I’m not asking them to take away your fantasy, I’m actually offering a way your group can become more relevant and part of a bigger story and relevance in a way that’s more efficient and gives more life to the Nightborne too who are a playable RACE, not just a group. And I'm sure blizz can make your guys look pretty badass and powerful like the Nightborne while they're at it. I just don't see how you lose anything.

- - - Updated - - -

We did that, we are passed that now and some venture out in the world while some stay behind or make quick visits, there is nothing that holds them back.

We didn't do that yet. They united to save Suramar, but went back to fighting each other. The venture out into the world is the line for adventurers, it's not a race direction/purpose. I believe every race has that line in there somewhere for new players setting out.

What I'm thinking would fit them very well is seeing how elf kind is nearly extinct due to all those wars and genocide, and taking the long term view - as you would expect a very long lived race, that has higher pursuits and ideals - which fits with an advanced civilization.

They only era they've known, the elves built a magnificent world spanning civilization with learning and progress at great heights, they were also prosperous and did quite well - now look at the state of things, look at elven kind? There kin - they would sort of view themselves as the most stable of the lot, with the best infrastructure too, and I think would take it upon themselves to do something about the situation of the elves and their fallen civilization - that is restore it to grandeur.

You know who else thinks exactly like that? The Highborne - (they are essentially the same people, same mindset etc, just different skins thank to the Nightwell). They'd also want similar - restore the civilization of the elves, save the people and restore the heights of knowledge and learning - things they value quite highly - they're not going to be into nature or Elune and whatever military goals the sentinels want. They'd help out I'm sure, but they'd have a larger focus and agenda, I don't think they'd want to be marooned with the Darnassians forever - Estulan was talking about restoring Eldre'thalas, Evenshade couldn't stop going on about the wonders of the former age (his group likely made most of them for Azshara).. they seem just the type to seek out the Nightborne to accomplish this and try to breakdown elven hostilities to build a brighter tomorrow, and lead the world, likely restore their prestige, respect and honour - they are vain types that want everyone to see how amazing they are (cos they're very good at what they do). They'd hate the fact that they're regarded so poorly by their own kin and have such a tarnished reputation

They'd be keen to do amazing feats, and play Lords/Princes again - and probably have the skill and genuine heart to bring their people together. They thrive best in civilizations, not in forests - and they'd know they'd need willing participants - the Broken Isles is where they'd focus on, as it has the most intact vestige of their ancient civilization (i.e. Suramar) it also is the only place where Nightborne and Night elves seem to get on - Moonguard, Val'sharah Dreamwardens and Moon Priestesses, the Valewalker, all get on well with Thalyssra - their involvement opens the door or gives hope to true unification, cos they come from the Darnassian bunch - who weren't very open or friendly to the broken isle lot.

Anyway, I think if anyone understands the mentality of the Highborne/Nightborne - this is EXACTLY the sort of thing they'd be focusing on with regards to themselves. They'd see the bigger picture, want to restore their race from the brink of extinction, and restore their civilization, they'd also want to make sure the factions at the very least don't get in the way, and at the most, don't kill each other - so would likely want to work together in secret to achieve that - and I don't know about you, but the idea of the Highborne and Nightborne working in secret together in the horde and alliance to prevent war and try and unite the elves, prevent Garrosh's, Arthas types from ever arising and ensuring the races are ready to face bigger threats, is the sort of thing I expect from them.

Yes so, I agree the focus should be on the races. We have gotten more and more races and the story should be about them as well. It's hard because ,if they focus on them, we might lose out on other stuff and it will all end up in huge dissapointments That said I would rather see the night elves, blood elves, nightborne time to develope themselves and where they stand afther everything and how they are doing. It's starting to get kinda blurry with all the elves and some are just missing flatout lore (void elves) How is silvermoon doing? So night elves just wandering in stormwind till tree is fixed? it's annoying.

Yes, very much so. I've painted some very good potential scenarios for blood elves, high elves and void elves in several forums and fan sites, this was one I thought of for Nightborne and Night elves based on some of the ideas from Ravenmoon and Mace I had read, just with a few adjustments I thought were more realistic and didn't involve the Nightborne going over to the alliance or being Night elf puppets or Night elves taking over Suramar and Darnassians moving into it - which really is just unrealistic and doesn't even fit. Now if it was just the Alliance night elven Highborne who were involved with the Nightborne - and it was the Nightborne and they together, based from Suramar, the Nightborne capital - then actually that just deals with a lot of issues, is more realistic and fits.

At least I think so - Highborne night elves would largely be involved with the Nightborne and broken isles groups in trying to civilization build and unify elves as well as working within the horde and alliance and driving this agenda in Dalaran too (to meddle enough in the factions to prevent another war etc) - it just fits their profile well, and gives them something unique and fitting for Farondis/Thalyssra/Estulan/Lothrius type characters as we've seen them. Face it, Tyrande wouldn't be the one interested in doing this -

[ravenmoon]

You don’t see it do you! ? You got your desire, in the Nightborne – the fantasy, the detail, even the city. But it’s on the horde, so you don’t want.

I’m not asking them to take away your fantasy, I’m actually offering a way your group can become more relevant and part of a bigger story and relevance in a way that’s more efficient and gives more life to the Nightborne too who are a playable RACE, not just a group. And I'm sure blizz can make your guys look pretty badass and powerful like the Nightborne while they're at it. I just don't see how you lose anything.

And you just don’t get it, it’s the night elf arcane fantasy I like, the Highborne, the Moonguard, while the Nightborne is something, it’s not exactly that – they are a new type of Highborne (called Nightborne) a new type of Moonguard (called Duskguard) and they put them on the horde. Sure its the same fantasy, but it’s not quite the same. If you understood why people felt high elves were different from blood elves, you’d understand why Highborne and Nightborne though the same ilk, are now also different. The same race or people group on two opposite factions are not the same

And it’s the night elf fantasy I wanted restored, not a changed version. If they could do a nice pretty set up for a horde race, they can also do the same for the older more prestigious and renowned original night elf arcane caster.

[Alanar]

We didn't do that yet. They united to save Suramar, but went back to fighting each other. The venture out into the world is the line for adventurers, it's not a race direction/purpose. I believe every race has that line in there somewhere for new players setting out.

We did do that... back to fightinf is exactly what I said they helped in the fourth war.. you know they ventured out in the world and then war happend. That line is possible where ever it fits and with the nightborne it fits. They are dreaking advetures my friend. They were in a bubble for 10k years. They are basically started playing vanilla at that point. Its realy jusy your opinion, But I just think you got it wrong.

[Beloren]

And you just don’t get it, it’s the night elf arcane fantasy I like, the Highborne, the Moonguard, while the Nightborne is something, it’s not exactly that – they are a new type of Highborne (called Nightborne) a new type of Moonguard (called Duskguard) and they put them on the horde. Sure its the same fantasy, but it’s not quite the same. If you understood why people felt high elves were different from blood elves, you’d understand why Highborne and Nightborne though the same ilk, are now also different. The same race or people group on two opposite factions are not the same

And it’s the night elf fantasy I wanted restored, not a changed version. If they could do a nice pretty set up for a horde race, they can also do the same for the older more prestigious and renowned original night elf arcane caster.

But don’t you see, blizz isn’t interested in expanding your night elves to have more powerful groups, they made a faction of the druids, the order of Elune and the Ilidari, and they ddi make a faction of the highborne too, the Shen’dralar – but they didn’t expand or develop them, instead they chose to create the Nightborne and filled it with the wonders of the kaldorei empire.

[Tuor]

You don’t see it do you! ? You got your desire, in the Nightborne

He got his desire when the few living Highborne rejoined the other Kaldorei, aka NElfs. That's what NElf mages are, they Highborne.