"The cunning ones kneel before six masters, but serve only one"

[Nagawithlegs]

Lets see if it'll make it to Live, first.

It likely will. That change was mostly intended to remove Azshara from Zandalar so that the emphasis there would be on Old Gods/G'huun, while Azshara was the focus of Kul Tiras (see: Ashvane and Lord Stormsong, both of whom serve her).

Yes, N'zoth was on Kul Tiras too, but it plays into the more nautical theme there.

[Sorrowseer]

This is the most exciting thing to come from lore in forever IMO.

The supposition thats its all linked from the very start? Not so much for me, if it was I would agree, but retroactively saying so rubs me the wrong way.

[Nagawithlegs]

The supposition thats its all linked from the very start? Not so much for me, if it was I would agree, but retroactively saying so rubs me the wrong way.

The Nathrezim were hinted at as not having true loyalty to the Legion in their very first appearance, so while the Jailer didn't exist back then them not being loyal demons is hardly retroactive.

[Ielenia]

BFA was explicitly old god themed, not Void. As we see in Macaree the Void theme is primarily blue and space ideas while the Black Empire is Lovecraft.

But it's still void and such. Old Gods are void.

Also, see WoD -> Legion.

Not the same thing, as WoD led to Legion. It would be one thing if BfA led to a void-based expansion, but it didn't. We went to a death-based expansion. The 'ship' for the void has sailed, and, like it was for TBC and Legion, will take a couple more expansions before the ship "returns".

[Sorrowseer]

The Nathrezim were hinted at as not having true loyalty to the Legion in their very first appearance, so while the Jailer didn't exist back then them not being loyal demons is hardly retroactive.

I mean the WHOLE thing, the 6 'laws' of the universe being at war, etc etc, its something relatively recent, say I dunno arbitrary number, the last 3-5 years, not from the inception, its like the 2nd bond film with daniel craig (or 3rd i forget) the villain is like 'everything bad that happened in your life was because of me....' it was so eyerolling.

[DemonHunter18]

The supposition thats its all linked from the very start? Not so much for me, if it was I would agree, but retroactively saying so rubs me the wrong way.

same.

Jailer is basically like Kronika from Mortal Kombat and she is the worst villain ever written.

oh and apparently Nathrezim went from being one of the few original demons spawned from the Twisting Nether to being Venthyr turned into demons or something who had plans since the beginning.

congrats to Blizz once again.

[mrsohta]

If The Jailer was this smart I wonder if we'll actually take him down with everything going alright during the last patch. Something bad may happen. Also, it could be cool if not everyone is as foolish as The Nathrezim thinks and they were secretly taking precautions while plotting their own rise in power. This is surprisingly interesting!

[Houle]

same.

Jailer is basically like Kronika from Mortal Kombat and she is the worst villain ever written.

oh and apparently Nathrezim went from being one of the few original demons spawned from the Twisting Nether to being Venthyr turned into demons or something who had plans since the beginning.

congrats to Blizz once again.

this so much
while somewhat interesting, all of this just proves that blizz will retcon everything on first sight. chronicles directly called dreadlrods one of the original demons. if this truly is a dreadlord writing that letter (we dont know for sure), this is now straight up retconned

also the fact that blizz is trying to make the jailer the "big bad who was behind everything and everyone", when the character was obviously created a few years ago at best, is also pretty meh. spits in the face of every big villain that came before.
creating a new villain, and shoehorning him into being responsible for everything the other villains did, is just no good writing

[Nagawithlegs]

this so much
while somewhat interesting, all of this just proves that blizz will retcon everything on first sight. chronicles directly called dreadlrods one of the original demons. if this truly is a dreadlord writing that letter (we dont know for sure), this is now straight up retconned

Except nobody could've known they were not originally demons. People meme about "lol da titans perspective" but it makes sense here, Chronicles was not written like it was the devs explaining every secret of the universe (same as how Elune is barely brought up despite the Titans surely knowing what she was).

[DemonHunter18]

this so much
while somewhat interesting, all of this just proves that blizz will retcon everything on first sight. chronicles directly called dreadlrods one of the original demons. if this truly is a dreadlord writing that letter (we dont know for sure), this is now straight up retconned

yep.

Chronicles are their Bible but hey, they said it's from Titans perspective last year as an excuse to retcon everything they feel the need to but some people still say it's 99% canon..

watch the same people saying bUt thEy diDn'T knOw AbOuT theM.

double standards.

[Houle]

Except nobody could've known they were not originally demons. People meme about "lol da titans perspective" but it makes sense here, Chronicles was not written like it was the devs explaining every secret of the universe (same as how Elune is barely brought up despite the Titans surely knowing what she was).

uhhhhm...what?
that was the entire reason chronicle was created? to have a lore book which consists of facts? nobody couldve known how the universe was created by light and void clashing, yet it is written in chronicles lol
and chronicles was precisely written to clear up the history and to consist of pure facts. what was written in chroicles was a fact
then they hit us with "titans perspective" and now they can literally retcon all of chronicles all over again. just like with the dreadlords

[Nagawithlegs]

uhhhhm...what?
that was the entire reason chronicle was created? to have a lore book which consists of facts? nobody couldve known how the universe was created by light and void clashing, yet it is written in chronicles lol
and chronicles was precisely written to clear up the history and to consist of pure facts. what was written in chroicles was a fact
then they hit us with "titans perspective" and now they can literally retcon all of chronicles all over again. just like with the dreadlords

Chronicles consists of facts that are already known, plus some additional history on the Titans. The only way Chronicles could be "facts" forever was if the series literally did not continue or add anything new.

So either the game ends after Sargeras is trapped, N'zoth dies and the islands are explored or new things are introduced that were not mentioned in the book.

[Houle]

Chronicles consists of facts that are already known, plus some additional history on the Titans. The only way Chronicles could be "facts" forever was if the series literally did not continue or add anything new.

well that was blizz mistake
they marketed and sold it as a fact lore-bible. now it suddenly isnt anymore.
everyone knew chronicles was a dumb idea back then, but blizz went ahead with it, only to absolutely backtrack a few years later yet again
doesnt make the fact better that they cant keep their lore straight for shit. 5 bucks say that 2-3 addons from now, all of this will be retconned and changed

and again, adding things that werent in the bok is somewhat fine, but they are straight up retconning lore from the book. thats the big problem here

[A Chozo]

I am so pleased to see that the Dreadlords are back in their rightful place as the fuckers behind all the fuckery going on.

[huth]

Could be someone in the Winter Queen's court? Could be anybody, really.

We also shouldn't assume we already met every character mentioned, especially the vaguely described ones.

- - - Updated - - -

Chronicles consists of facts that are already known, plus some additional history on the Titans. The only way Chronicles could be "facts" forever was if the series literally did not continue or add anything new.

So either the game ends after Sargeras is trapped, N'zoth dies and the islands are explored or new things are introduced that were not mentioned in the book.

Nah, it can be facts forever. It cannot, however, be all facts, and the meaning of the facts can change with additional information, something lost on many people. There's nothing in this stating the Nathrezim aren't demons, partaking in Fel is even described as a necessity for their plans.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

well that was blizz mistake
they marketed and sold it as a fact lore-bible. now it suddenly isnt anymore.
everyone knew chronicles was a dumb idea back then, but blizz went ahead with it, only to absolutely backtrack a few years later yet again
doesnt make the fact better that they cant keep their lore straight for shit. 5 bucks say that 2-3 addons from now, all of this will be retconned and changed

and again, adding things that werent in the bok is somewhat fine, but they are straight up retconning lore from the book. thats the big problem here

Spamming the word retcon doesn't make you correct.

[TheFirstOnes]

I am so pleased to see that the Dreadlords are back in their rightful place as the fuckers behind all the fuckery going on.

Yep, and Zovaal planned all this shit out from the beginning. He forgot about 1 thing, however....

He's facing the main characters of WoW. Us.

[Gaidax]

I just wonder for how long Blizz were planning all that.

This quote at the very least puts Blizz plan at 5 years old considering first Ilgynoth encounter and reasonable development time.

Sire Denathrius, his dreadlord-like form, accuser calling him Lord of Dread and so on. Lothraxion. Frostmourne link to Death realm and Nathrezim.

This all is too juicy.

- - - Updated - - -

Chronicle 1 released in 2016 too, I guess it's safe to assume they started planning all this at the very least early/mid-WOD.

I don't think they went with this as far as WoTLK, because then probably MoP and WoD would not happen, as they are of little relevance to this thing.

And who knows what all they plan, maybe this "Master" is not Zovaal at all, who knows. Maybe there is something behind him, or behind Arbiter and all the so-called Death Pantheon for that matter.

[Nagawithlegs]

And who knows what all they plan, maybe this "Master" is not Zovaal at all, who knows. Maybe there is something behind him, or behind Arbiter and all the so-called Death Pantheon for that matter.

If it's not the Jailer, who I think is most likely, then it may be whoever is the opposing force to Elune. Elune covers Light, Life and Arcane magics, so it stands that there may be another god similar to her who encompasses Death, Void and Fel magics.

Which would still work with the prophecy. They sit at six tables (the planes of magic) but serve only one (not a plane of magic but a single god)

[Gaidax]

Also, it could be cool if not everyone is as foolish as The Nathrezim thinks and they were secretly taking precautions while plotting their own rise in power. This is surprisingly interesting!

That might also be a thing, after all this "report" might be a lip service too for a party that's being played like a fiddle.

- - - Updated - - -

If it's not the Jailer, who I think is most likely, then it may be whoever is the opposing force to Elune. Elune covers Light, Life and Arcane magics, so it stands that there may be another god similar to her who encompasses Death, Void and Fel magics.

Which would still work with the prophecy. They sit at six tables (the planes of magic) but serve only one (not a plane of magic but a single god)

Well that quote above, where someone mentioned "what if this also is a ruse", made me thinking that it might too be a path.

Zovaal just does not strike me as the one who could orchestrate this all by himself and there is already a bit from Primus claiming he's working with some ancient allies, that might not only mean Nathrezim, so maybe he himself is just a cog in a wheel and even if that missive is addressed to him, it might just ultimately be a lip service too. After all I can imagine Dreadlords called Sargeras master too, when they addressed him.

Heck maybe he himself is a victim of said plot, there is too much random talk about injustice inflicted on him going on and so on and how he seems to hold the actual truth. Who knows, maybe he got tossed to the Maw because he was about to expose things and his pals decided to shut him up in a place there is supposedly no escape from.

I wonder who is Arbiter's boss and what is she even. She certainly seems to be of a higher station than Winter Queen and her colleagues, so I wonder who is above that in Death realm.