For a small moment I knew what it was like to be a demon hunter or rogue

[Lucrece]

And shadow could also suck if they tune down their spells, that's the most obvious thing in the world.

There's nothing wrong with the mechanics of Destro. It's all about how much damage the spells do.

You are just whining about something that hasn't happened yet, and may not ever happen, for the sake of whining.

Or maybe you're being an obtuse jackass because rain of fire is most certainly a mechanical downside of the spec compared to a fucking channel that follows mobs as they're moved around and doesn't cost them their spender resource in competition with devouring plague.

The damage of rain of fire has been fine and viable even in BfA at higher target counts. Destro is still garbage in M+ because in real scenarios the mobs don't end up eating the full channel of ROF. It's that simple.

The likelihood of downtuning all shadow aoe spells and talents is far less than tuning down the outlier covenant ability in their flagship expansion feature. That too is the most obvious thing in the world, though apparently not to you.

[Asrialol]

Seems more like a whine thread about rogue / dh aoe (interestingly enough left out other specs that does more aoe dmg both with burst and sustain.. but I guess that's where the bias comes in?)

So far it seems warlocks has gotten the same attention as other classes, minus the few that is getting quite major changes (sp, balance etc).

- - - Updated - - -

Or maybe you're being an obtuse jackass because rain of fire is most certainly a mechanical downside of the spec compared to a fucking channel that follows mobs as they're moved around and doesn't cost them their spender resource in competition with devouring plague.

The damage of rain of fire has been fine and viable even in BfA at higher target counts. Destro is still garbage in M+ because in real scenarios the mobs don't end up eating the full channel of ROF. It's that simple.

The likelihood of downtuning all shadow aoe spells and talents is far less than tuning down the outlier covenant ability in their flagship expansion feature. That too is the most obvious thing in the world, though apparently not to you.

What. Mobs can usually be in several rings of fire before they die. If you're talking about low keys then... Lol why do you talk about low keys?

[Puxycat]

Burning Crusade, was literally the worst class in the game.

I was maining Rogue from Vanilla through the end of the WOTLK and i can tell you not at any single point rogues were below being number 1 during TBC.
Oh got after the glaives and in sunwell... I think you should watch some first kill videos from TBC days.

Getting back to warlock. Locks are still top tier DPS in SL but what they need is some kit to survive in PvP.

[burek]

What. Mobs can usually be in several rings of fire before they die.

Maybe if the tank never moved in combat. Which is not what happens in reality.

Rain of fire is a piece of shit mechanically, F&B is far superior. Destro had great sustained aoe in WoD, which would work well in M+, but instead of that we are stuck with shit like rof or infernals. It's not a surprise that we are trash tier for two expansions now.

[Shandalar]

Warlocks are Blizzard's most hated class. They will delete it if they could; they cant, so they just give us 0 attention, clunky mechanics and 0 utility.

There are only two casters for Blizzard: Shadow Priests and Mages. Every other just deserve to get shit, with a focus on Warlocks, the poor and stupid cousins of the Mages since Classic.

Im tired of this. Just preparing a Mage and a Shadow to play SL. With the pre-patch they will be ready. Warlocks are going to suck and Im tired of this.

[burek]

There are only two casters for Blizzard: Shadow Priests and Mages. Every other just deserve to get shit, with a focus on Warlocks, the poor and stupid cousins of the Mages since Classic.

We were in a much better spot than them when it comes to raiding in the last X expansions. We are trash in M+, not overall.

[Gnomognomo]

Here a +20 keys beta tester, and some EU/NA first on beta.

After the nerf of aff, it's true that it'll be a bit worse, prolly frost mage is ahead of aff lock rn, but aff lock for sure will still be top 5 rdps at the current status of beta. And destro being by far top 1.

No need to cry about, since as we scale, aff also scales more than other specs.

[ydraw]

Here a +20 keys beta tester, and some EU/NA first on beta.

After the nerf of aff, it's true that it'll be a bit worse, prolly frost mage is ahead of aff lock rn, but aff lock for sure will still be top 5 rdps at the current status of beta. And destro being by far top 1.

No need to cry about, since as we scale, aff also scales more than other specs.

Just out of interest how would you rank the RDS specs? I'd like to know how Balance, BM and Elemental are doing, as well as the warlock specs.

[Gnomognomo]

Just out of interest how would you rank the RDS specs? I'd like to know how Balance, BM and Elemental are doing, as well as the warlock specs.

Can't tell you about bm cuz i havent seen them in like 40-50 keys i may have done xd.

About others, talking about dmg output and utility (obviously that's my impression and what ive seen so far), i would say that top rdps rn would be destro lock and ice mage. Since destro burst dmg is so high, offers br and hs that u can spam every min, and also magic dispel or kick + purge. Mage have alter time that helps a lot on heal mechanics, x2 cubes for higher keys, slow, int buff and curse dispel (there are a lot of them).

A tier below, in overall dmg in m+ and depending of key lvl, would be aff, ele and old marksman hunter leggo (the trap one), about the hunter i just seen 1 after the nerf but he did quite nice dmg tbh. Ele has a lot of aoe burst but it's st dmg is so low, aff is quite consistent but you need mobs to live some time so you can ramp up (1 seed, 3-5 agony gcd, viletaint, ua, mrmrmrmr).

About balance i have seen so few to hace a consistrnt opinion

[sensei-]

Can't tell you about bm cuz i havent seen them in like 40-50 keys i may have done xd.

About others, talking about dmg output and utility (obviously that's my impression and what ive seen so far), i would say that top rdps rn would be destro lock and ice mage. Since destro burst dmg is so high, offers br and hs that u can spam every min, and also magic dispel or kick + purge. Mage have alter time that helps a lot on heal mechanics, x2 cubes for higher keys, slow, int buff and curse dispel (there are a lot of them).

A tier below, in overall dmg in m+ and depending of key lvl, would be aff, ele and old marksman hunter leggo (the trap one), about the hunter i just seen 1 after the nerf but he did quite nice dmg tbh. Ele has a lot of aoe burst but it's st dmg is so low, aff is quite consistent but you need mobs to live some time so you can ramp up (1 seed, 3-5 agony gcd, viletaint, ua, mrmrmrmr).

About balance i have seen so few to hace a consistrnt opinion

Thanks for the post, but it’s like me and few others said pages ago, which is that nothing has changed from BFA. Affli isn’t a competitive spec. It’s twice the work and hassle for half the results type of spec.

Last couple weeks coming, looks like tuning is basically done. It’ll be +/- 5% here and there but that’s it.

P.s. You forgot Mages and Hunters got lust/hero which is a lot more important now as drums got nerfed to uselessness.

[Ashina]

It's number tuning in Beta, who the heck cares. They could've target capped MR or removed the Mastery interaction again, be happy they just tweaked spellpower coëfficients and some trait scaling.


All I read in this thread is a lot of whining by people who peak at LFR.

[Kaver]

I wish I would get to know what it was like to be a Warlock in raiding. Just for a small moment. But that will never happen. Unless I actually play a Warlock. There is only one king.

[Delano]

Rogues bring nothing to a raid, but hey, grass is always greener eh?

[Gaidax]

Last couple weeks coming, looks like tuning is basically done. It’ll be +/- 5% here and there but that’s it.

Wat?

The tuning did not even begin yet. There will be massive nerfs and buffs in beta in coming builds. Destruction won't have 50s CD Infernals in M+ and Affliction won't twice top Warrior execute with its broken Drain Soul synergies.

Same goes for many other classes and specs that are going on some roofies in Beta at the moment like Sub doing roughly twice the ST damage of any other spec ingame.

[enigma77]

Rogues bring nothing to a raid, but hey, grass is always greener eh?

A 2 minute immunity is infinitely more useful than anything Warlocks bring to a raid.

Remember Kil'Jaeden and Fallen Avatar where guilds stacked 5 + rogues?

And that was in an expansion in which Affliction's dmg was insane.

[Gaidax]

Remember Kil'Jaeden and Fallen Avatar where guilds stacked 5 + rogues?

This was also 3 years ago... just sayin'

I think Rogues are ok, but quite seriously - their raid "utility" is definitely not on par with Warlocks - every tier you have a boss or two where gateway is basically essential and two are better (if not frikkin' 3-4 like Ghuun).

It silly to even compare the two in the raid setting when it comes to utility - immune soaks are dime a dozen nowadays, gateway is still only one class.

[Delano]

A 2 minute immunity is infinitely more useful than anything Warlocks bring to a raid.

Remember Kil'Jaeden and Fallen Avatar where guilds stacked 5 + rogues?

And that was in an expansion in which Affliction's dmg was insane.

For what it's worth, the design going forward seems to be Cloak not removing any meaningful raid debuff.

[Gnomognomo]

Affli isn’t a competitive spec. It’s twice the work and hassle for half the results type of spec.

Rn affli is a competitive soec, maybe not top tier since (so far what i've seen) the 3 best specs for m+ rn is sub rogue frost mage and destro lock, but for sure it's a good spec on its current status at beta. Highest ST execute dmg, good cleave, quite ok aoe dmg with no cap (on seed and vile taint) if the pull last a bit.

But it's also true that it requires more a bit more effort to pull out those numbers that a frost mage or a destro lock.

[Lucrece]

Thanks for the post, but it’s like me and few others said pages ago, which is that nothing has changed from BFA. Affli isn’t a competitive spec. It’s twice the work and hassle for half the results type of spec.

Last couple weeks coming, looks like tuning is basically done. It’ll be +/- 5% here and there but that’s it.

P.s. You forgot Mages and Hunters got lust/hero which is a lot more important now as drums got nerfed to uselessness.

Mage also has spellsteal and frost nova/cone of cold for tank kiting on necrotic weeks. Dragon's breath if fire. And of course, sheep.

[Baconeggcheese]

A 2 minute immunity is infinitely more useful than anything Warlocks bring to a raid.

Remember Kil'Jaeden and Fallen Avatar where guilds stacked 5 + rogues?

And that was in an expansion in which Affliction's dmg was insane.

I was in the US 11th kill for mythic fallen avatar and KJ, Avatar we had 2 rogues, KJ we had 1. I played destruction on both.

Never felt threatened by rogues personally.