[Theory] Turalyon will usurp Anduin/Takeover Stormwind

[BrintoSFJ]

I like this theory quite a bit. It does feel weird to me that Genn is being skipped over here for Turalyon, especially as Genn canonically has been the fill in for Anduin in the past. I could absolutely see the Light trying to take things over, though I do feel Anduin would be pretty easy for the Light to manipulate if it wanted.

Shadows Rising spoilers here: This really makes me wonder about the Turalyon/Alleria storyline we saw in Shadows Rising. Alleria doing whatever she could using the Void to get information, Turalyon using the Light to help her out. That felt a little weird to me, but if it is hinting at some corruption from the Light it makes a ton more sense.

If this is the case, I'm really curious how the LF Draenei wind up adjusting to this. They are very much in the service of the Light, so the Light trying to take over Stormwind and/or the World seems like a massive point of conflict for them. Should they be upset about it? What could the Light do to even turn them away from it?

It gives me another vibe, it makes me think that Turalyon is getting used to the idea that Light is just a tool and he can do whatever he wants with it. He doesn't need to worship it, he only needs to use and even abuse it.

[Vargrik]

That's what I said. The Light is not inherently good, it is merely a weapon, but all Light users in the Alliance are good. Lothraxion might be a double agent in the Light, he is the only one close to Turalyon who might carry evil intentions, so naturally he would be the only one trying to manipulate Turalyon into doing something evil to destabylize the fragile peace on Azeroth.

But really we don't even know if Lothraxion is evil. First we don't know if the author of that document is a dreadlord, then we don't know if Lothraxion is still double agent or was truly converted by the Light. I just mentioned Lothraxion because I can't think of anyone else close to Turalyon who harbors evil intentions.

I see. Well... I bet on Lothraxion being a double agent... The Nathrezim are up to no good and will do whatever it takes to fool each and everyone in order to advance their own agenda.

[jellmoo]

This is not power struggle, this is Turalyon taking over Stormwind and usurping Anduin.

Yes. And Anduin then want to wrest control back from him. A struggle some may say. For power.

Nobles are not so shallow that they only care about wealth. Do you really think a medieval noble would support a foreign impostor instead of their rightful monarch?

This isn't like an Orc suddenly taking over Stormwind. This is one of humanity's greatest heroes. And yes. Absolutely. History is littered with examples of nobles supporting the claim of one individual over another, largely because they belive it would bring them personal gain.

Remember, Anduin led them from a war with Demons to a war with the Horde, and then decided to help the Horde. Not exactly amazing domestic policies. Now imagine in this scenario that Turalyon takes the helm and immediately starts a "Make stormwind Great Again" series of isolationist policies, the side effect is that the nopbles make good bank and the kingdom sees prosperity. You really think they would be super eager to have Anduin come back just because he's a Wrynn?

[Varodoc]

Yes. And Anduin then want to wrest control back from him. A struggle some may say. For power.



This isn't like an Orc suddenly taking over Stormwind. This is one of humanity's greatest heroes. And yes. Absolutely. History is littered with examples of nobles supporting the claim of one individual over another, largely because they belive it would bring them personal gain.

Remember, Anduin led them from a war with Demons to a war with the Horde, and then decided to help the Horde. Not exactly amazing domestic policies. Now imagine in this scenario that Turalyon takes the helm and immediately starts a "Make stormwind Great Again" series of isolationist policies, the side effect is that the nopbles make good bank and the kingdom sees prosperity. You really think they would be super eager to have Anduin come back just because he's a Wrynn?

A struggle that would last for the total of one entire questline, since you can't force Alliance players out of Stormwind. Just like how the Loyalist's control of Orgrimmar lasted for one questline.

Turalyon has no claim in the first place, that's the point. He was born in Lordaeron, not Stormwind, and in addition he spent 1000 years with the draenei in the Twisting Nether.

Anduin did not help the Horde, he helped the Horde rebels, big difference. The Fourth War was a bloodshed, but many more lives would've been lost if Saurfang was not set free by Anduin. Instead, Anduin freeing Saurfang set in motion the chain of events that led to Sylvanas' abdication, and a quick and just end to the war. Indeed, many civilians and guards praised Anduin for supporting the rebels against the Banshee Queen.

Also, how does isolationist policies make Stormwind richer? As it stands now, Stormwind is the capital and heart of the Alliance, it is the centre of a vast network of military allies who bring in goods, trade, etc. how does isolationism make Stormwind richer? That makes no sense. And how would Turalyon and the nobles deal with the many foreign refugees in Stormwind? Allied races NPCs, darnassian and gilnean refugees... would they just dump them into the sea or something like that?

[jellmoo]

A struggle that would last for the total of one entire questline, since you can't force Alliance players out of Stormwind. Just like how the Loyalist's control of Orgrimmar lasted for one questline.

Why does it have to? This wouldn't mean that players can't enter Stormwind. They could do this struggle a dozen different ways. They could have Anduin publicly abdicate the throne (even under duress) and then take off to start the wheels of a come back from the shadows, and have that lead into the next expansion.

Turalyon has no claim in the first place, that's the point. He was born in Lordaeron, not Stormwind, and in addition he spent 1000 years with the draenei in the Twisting Nether.

And yet he's still a hero, one that was placed in command of Alliance forces. Remember, Napoleon wasn't born to power. There's no reason that the niobles wouldn't line up behind Turalyon if they saw the benefit of it.

Anduin did not help the Horde, he helped the Horde rebels, big difference. The Fourth War was a bloodshed, but many more lives would've been lost if Saurfang was not set free by Anduin. Instead, Anduin freeing Saurfang set in motion the chain of events that led to Sylvanas' abdication, and a quick and just end to the war. Indeed, many civilians and guards praised Anduin for supporting the rebels against the Banshee Queen.

Yes, but look at it from the point of view from the average Stormwind citizen. Unlike the players, they aren't seeing that. They're seeing their sons and daughters, brothers and sister, wives and husbands, going off to war far away and being killed. And then at the end of a war, turn around and help the very people they were just warring against. The details don't matter, they still feel that pain all too well. They are still dealing with poverty and death. They are seeing their young King do things for the "greater good" rather than the good of the people of his kingdom.

Also, how does isolationist policies make Stormwind richer? As it stands now, Stormwind is the capital and heart of the Alliance, it is the centre of a vast network of military allies who bring in goods, trade, etc. how does isolationism make Stormwind richer? That makes no sense. And how would Turalyon and the nobles deal with the many foreign refugees in Stormwind? Allied races NPCs, darnassian and gilnean refugees... would they just dump them into the sea or something like that?

Because Stormwind is the dominant power in that Alliance. It could, using that, want better trade deals with allies. Could insist that they increase military contributions because they've shouldered that weight. Look at the current policies of the United States for more inspiration.

And they could do a number of things with refugees. Build ghettos for one. Or relocate them to other areas (say Westfall). They could conscript them into the army. There are a ton of options depending how deep the writers are willing to let Turalyon go.

[matrix123mko]

Nah, they had hundreds of opportunities to create some alliance drama and nothing ever came out of it. I really wouldn't get my hopes up.

Turalyon will look at Arathor and instantly regret his evil intentions. Then he will go with Thrall to kill evil Warchief Ji.

[Varodoc]

Why does it have to? This wouldn't mean that players can't enter Stormwind. They could do this struggle a dozen different ways. They could have Anduin publicly abdicate the throne (even under duress) and then take off to start the wheels of a come back from the shadows, and have that lead into the next expansion.



And yet he's still a hero, one that was placed in command of Alliance forces. Remember, Napoleon wasn't born to power. There's no reason that the niobles wouldn't line up behind Turalyon if they saw the benefit of it.



Yes, but look at it from the point of view from the average Stormwind citizen. Unlike the players, they aren't seeing that. They're seeing their sons and daughters, brothers and sister, wives and husbands, going off to war far away and being killed. And then at the end of a war, turn around and help the very people they were just warring against. The details don't matter, they still feel that pain all too well. They are still dealing with poverty and death. They are seeing their young King do things for the "greater good" rather than the good of the people of his kingdom.



Because Stormwind is the dominant power in that Alliance. It could, using that, want better trade deals with allies. Could insist that they increase military contributions because they've shouldered that weight. Look at the current policies of the United States for more inspiration.

And they could do a number of things with refugees. Build ghettos for one. Or relocate them to other areas (say Westfall). They could conscript them into the army. There are a ton of options depending how deep the writers are willing to let Turalyon go.

Let's be generous and give Turalyon the support of the nobles. Then what? The nobles are not important in the Alliance. Anduin would have the support of literally every other Alliance leader except maybe Tyrande (though she seems to have calmed down somewhat in Shadowlands), since every other Alliance leader is quite pleased by Anduin's leadership. Are you saying that Turalyon and the nobles can defeat the rest of the Alliance by themselves? Are you saying that Anduin and his friends would be the underdogs? What about the Stormwind army? Certainly these proud men of Stormwind would not choose a foreign usurper over their rightful King. At which point, Turalyon would also have the strongest Alliance kingdom against him.

The average Stormwind citizen would also know that it was Sylvanas who started the war by committing genocide at Teldrassil. This isn't a war that Anduin started out of petty reasons. This was a war that Anduin was forced to fight by a tyrant who couldn't be reasoned with.

That's the problem with all these theories about Alliance drama. They go from "Turalyon might be tempted into doing bad actions by a third party" to "The Alliance will put their own people into ghettos ala Garrosh". There's no development, nothing, it's just the Alliance going from one extreme (lawful good) to the other (lawful evil).

Finally, don't forget that the other leaders of the Alliance are in no way obliged to follow Turalyon's orders. High king is about army focus, not control. That's why Turalyon can't be the Alliance version of Garrosh and Sylvanas. He's not a dictator, the other Alliance leaders are not bound by any oath to him. And I'm certain that many individuals within just Stormwind alone would not bend the knee to a foreign usurper and draenei wannabe (I already mentioned Stormwind Army, I could mention SI:7 too).

[baskev]

I don't think anything of note will happen with either the Alliance or Horde's leadership during Shadowlands, as the focus of the story is more on distant lands and events. The next expansion, though, could be ripe for Alliance-centric drama of this sort. It would be nice to see the Alliance actually take the fore in the rising action for once, as opposed to its generally reactive state for the majority of WoW's ongoing story. A Light vs. Void type of story could do a lot to expose the unexplored rift in Alliance culture, like a revitalized and newly militant Army of the Light based in Azeroth engaging in a cold war with the Void Elves, or anyone else who doesn't accept the dictates of the Light immediately.

Disagree. I think Anduin might keep missing after shadowlands. Only to return in old god/shadow expansion. For the rest yeah it will be very low action on the leadership front.
And yes i am also afraid of alliance centric drama. And it would be great to be the main focus for once is many many expansions. But a new civil war is not what i and i think most people are waiting for. Or a other garrosh/sylvannas thing. It would be a redo of old content.
Your idea of the alliance struggling with shadow and light in its ranks could be nice. And it will come.

So i think you are on on something. But i do not think that a in faction war is a right thing to do. But the light vs shadow allied "races" going to war could be a good thing.

[Rampant Rabbit]

I doubt this will happen because it's not really in Turalyon's character, but I don't think it would be a bad development all in all because I feel the Alliance could use some internal drama like this. But perhaps Turalyon may feel that the Anduin that returns from the Maw isn't the true Anduin - perhaps he may even be *right*.

I wouldn't say it's in Yrel's character to massacre any non-believers in the name of the Light, but here we are...

[Ardenaso]

I wouldn't say it's in Yrel's character to massacre any non-believers in the name of the Light, but here we are...

well a lot can happen in 35 years, and this is the universe where the whole world literally flipped on just year 20 alone

[Triggered Fridgekin]

Genn has done more. Genn led the assault into Stormheim,

Genn might stand to be a pretty competent and capable leader but only when Sylvanas is totally out of the picture and he can forgive the Forsaken otherwise he's too much of a loose, one-dimensional rage canon. Using the Stormheim scenario as an example, he went against direct orders from Anduin and sought a confrontation with the Horde under the possibility that Sylvanas might be on an air ship. The end result being the destruction of The Skyfire which is essentially the flagship of the Alliance air fleet and threatened the 87th armistice between the Horde and the Alliance to come together again for Azeroth.

One could argue that the ends justifies the means but that was only after the fact. He easily casts aside his orders to settle a personal vendetta regardless of what the cost may be. You just can't trust someone who has that much of a grudge and power.

[Varitok]

Yeah he will and it will be some more Morally grey "See the light is evil too!" writing and terrible. It's also not in his Character and will ruin an old and beloved character.

[Combatbutler]

Genn might stand to be a pretty competent and capable

He is responsible for the downfall of his kingdom though, he chose to burn the bridges with the all the other Alliance nations , completely wall himself in , which caused a civil war, he refused to help Lordaeron when they were begging for help. He brought the worgen curse upon his people, to later combat the very people of Lordaeron, who he had left to die. The curse went entirely out of control effectively forcing what remained of his people to live in a small corner of their once great nation.

[Romanthony]

While im all for Alliance Drama, it wont happen. We could of had Drama many times over already but it never happened because Alliance has to remain pure and without conflict. I think the last conflict they had in regards leadership was back with Onyixa

[jellmoo]

Let's be generous and give Turalyon the support of the nobles. Then what? The nobles are not important in the Alliance. Anduin would have the support of literally every other Alliance leader except maybe Tyrande (though she seems to have calmed down somewhat in Shadowlands), since every other Alliance leader is quite pleased by Anduin's leadership. Are you saying that Turalyon and the nobles can defeat the rest of the Alliance by themselves? Are you saying that Anduin and his friends would be the underdogs? What about the Stormwind army? Certainly these proud men of Stormwind would not choose a foreign usurper over their rightful King. At which point, Turalyon would also have the strongest Alliance kingdom against him.

I'm saying that there wouldn't be an open fight. Would Anduin want open warfare? Would any other leaders want that? Even if they support Anduin in what could be described as an internal Stormwind affair, are they really eager for war? Especially against what is the military might of the Alliance? Against a legendary hero bathed in the Light? Would the Stormwind army not follow a general of legend that hasn't led them down disastrous paths of war? Compared to a kid that was given the throne too early? Especially if Stormwind is prospering.

I think you're really overestimating how far people would go for a King, especially when most of the other Alliance races are refugees and/or displaced.

The average Stormwind citizen would also know that it was Sylvanas who started the war by committing genocide at Teldrassil. This isn't a war that Anduin started out of petty reasons. This was a war that Anduin was forced to fight by a tyrant who couldn't be reasoned with.

Do they care? About wars that happen a world away but still costs countless lives of Stormwind citizens? Look at recent wars in the US and how wildly npopular they were.

That's the problem with all these theories about Alliance drama. They go from "Turalyon might be tempted into doing bad actions by a third party" to "The Alliance will put their own people into ghettos ala Garrosh". There's no development, nothing, it's just the Alliance going from one extreme (lawful good) to the other (lawful evil).

Except that's not the argument. At all. Remember, this is meant to be a slippery slope. Not that Turalyon is suddenly evil. It starts with creating a nice enclave for Night Elves. Maybe Worgen are given land outside of Stormwind so they can run wild. Then things get tighter. Night Elves are encouraged to stay in their enclave. Worgen need papers to enter Stormwind. It's about creating that slippery slope for Turalyon to slip down. Small things that seem logical at the time, but when you add them up, it becomes more and more obvious that something isn't right.

Again, we have a real world example in the United States right now.

Finally, don't forget that the other leaders of the Alliance are in no way obliged to follow Turalyon's orders. High king is about army focus, not control. That's why Turalyon can't be the Alliance version of Garrosh and Sylvanas. He's not a dictator, the other Alliance leaders are not bound by any oath to him. And I'm certain that many individuals within just Stormwind alone would not bend the knee to a foreign usurper and draenei wannabe (I already mentioned Stormwind Army, I could mention SI:7 too).

Sure, every leader(s) of the Alliance can pull back. Absolutely. Will they want to? Will they want to leave the protection and might of Stormwind behind? Maybe. Maybe not. And again, this isn't about turning Turalyon into Garrosh or Sylvanas. Those aren't the only models to get inspiration from. He can be his own type of "villain". He can be more subtle. He could not just be a warmonger, but rather preach things that actually resonate with the people.

He's quite literally one of their greatest heroes. His statues is there when you enter the kingdom. This is not a case of the army backing some nobody iahead of a king. It would be them backing a hero with legit credentials over somebody that they may perceive to have brought them to the edge of ruin.

Remember, people are unlikely to want to toss out the status quo when the status quo is perceived of as good.

[Soon-TM]

Shadow Priests? The Void is the antithesis of everything the Light stands for, the ultimate enemy.

If Turalyon boi ever goes this way, he'd better keep this part outside her "charming" wife's ear reach

[AngerFork]

It gives me another vibe, it makes me think that Turalyon is getting used to the idea that Light is just a tool and he can do whatever he wants with it. He doesn't need to worship it, he only needs to use and even abuse it.

Interesting thought. If that's the case, one has to wonder what led him to view the Light as a tool to be used/abused as he sees fit. Has it been his love for Alleria and her use of the Void? Is the Light intending for him to abuse it this way to further it's own plans? Or was some of the Light's spell broken over him when Xera died and his eyes changed color? Regardless, if this is the case, then I see someone who is viewing their religious power as a tool who would now be in the main political seat of the Alliance. That sounds like a problem waiting to happen.

Genn might stand to be a pretty competent and capable leader but only when Sylvanas is totally out of the picture and he can forgive the Forsaken otherwise he's too much of a loose, one-dimensional rage canon. Using the Stormheim scenario as an example, he went against direct orders from Anduin and sought a confrontation with the Horde under the possibility that Sylvanas might be on an air ship. The end result being the destruction of The Skyfire which is essentially the flagship of the Alliance air fleet and threatened the 87th armistice between the Horde and the Alliance to come together again for Azeroth.

One could argue that the ends justifies the means but that was only after the fact. He easily casts aside his orders to settle a personal vendetta regardless of what the cost may be. You just can't trust someone who has that much of a grudge and power.

Oh, for sure. Genn is a terrible leader and always has been IMO. I think the fact that the Worgen never found a good home after Cataclysm while Genn mostly played around with Stormwind royalty and diplomatic missions for the Alliance tells me that he's a leader who cares more about vengeance & power than his own people. The Worgen needed a new home after Gilneas, they still need one after Teldrassil, and Genn really could not care less about it.

But that's my opinion of him as a leader. What I was mentioning in my comment was more where I saw Anduin's opinion of Genn as a leader. While I see Genn as having abandoned his own people, Anduin certainly has seen Genn as one of the prime diplomats of the Alliance. His leadership in Stormheim in Anduin's eyes was helpful in us getting the Aegis, even though in reality he ran off to fight Sylvanas and we got the Aegis in spite of his distractions. The mission in Boralus to bring the Kul Tirans into the Alliance was absolutely successful, which would be in part due to Genn's leadership. Anduin didn't see that we were basically doing all the leg work while Genn had tea & crumpets with Cyrus.

All of that makes it that much more interesting that Anduin would choose Turalyon over Genn for this role. Turalyon really hasn't had much of a chance to prove himself to Anduin, largely just fairy tales and the Defense of Stromgarde. His work on Argus would have been witnessed by Velen who certainly would put in a good word, but Genn had already been the backup plan beforehand. So Turalyon getting the call strikes me as odd. Perhaps Anduin has other plans for Genn, perhaps the Light told him that Turalyon would be better, or maybe the fairy tales made Anduin a bit star struck. But as Genn had already been in that role canonically as recently as Before The Storm, it does feel like an odd shift, even if I think Genn is essentially trash as a leader.

[Phuongvi]

If anything goes in the alliance it should be Genn
Turalyon is just another plain paladin